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W3C Technical Architecture Group slaps down Google's proposal to treat multiple domains as same origin

(2021/04/08)


A Google proposal which enables a web browser to treat a group of domains as one for privacy and security reasons has been opposed by the W3C Technical Architecture Group (TAG).

Google's [1]First Party Sets (FPS) relates to the way web browsers determine whether a cookie or other resource comes from the same site to which the user has navigated or from another site. The browser is likely to treat these differently, an obvious example being the plan to [2]block third-party cookies .

[3]

The proposal suggests that where multiple domains owned by the same entity – such as google.com, google.co.uk, and youtube.com – they could be grouped into sets which "allow related domain names to declare themselves as the same first-party."

The idea allows for sites to declare their own sets by means of a manifest in a known location. It also states that "the browser vendor could maintain a list of domains which meet its UA [User Agent] policy, and ship it in the browser."

[4]

This could lead to more application developers targeting specific browsers and writing web apps that only work (or are limited to) those browsers

In February 2019, Google software engineer Mike West requested a [5]TAG review and feedback on the proposal was [6]published yesterday . "It has been reviewed by the TAG and represents a consensus view," the document says.

According to the TAG, "the architectural plank of the origin has remained relatively steady" over the last 10 years, despite major changes in web technology. It added: "We are concerned that this proposal weakens the concept of origin without considering the full implications of this action." The group identified some vagueness in the proposal, such as whether FPS applies to permissions such as access to microphone and camera.

Google says once third-party cookies are toast, Chrome won't help ad networks track individuals around the web [7]READ MORE

A Google Chrome engineering manager [8]has stated : "No, we are not proposing to change the scope for permissions. The current scope for FPS is only to be treated as a privacy boundary where browsers impose cross-site tracking limitations." But the TAG reckons that the precise scope of FPS should be laid out in the proposal.

A second concern is over the suggestion that browser vendors would ship their own lists. "This could lead to more application developers targeting specific browsers and writing web apps that only work (or are limited to) those browsers, which is not a desirable outcome," said the TAG.

Defaults have a powerful effect, and it is easy to imagine, for example, Google shipping its market-dominating Chrome browser with a list that said youtube.com and google.co.uk are the same site from a privacy perspective, while the user may want to distinguish them but might not know how to change the setting or be aware of it. "First Party Sets could let a user agent or browser approve sites as a set in the interest of those sites or cookie-issuers (like advertisers), rather than in the interest of the user," said the TAG.

The TAG had particular concerns about FPS in the context of Google's separate proposal for a " [9]privacy sandbox ."

FPS "seeks to redefine what it means to be a third-party cookie," said the TAG, which throws into question "the efficacy of the privacy sandbox." From Google's perspective, FPS is listed as one of the building blocks of the privacy sandbox technology.

The group also objected to the way FPS "adds a complex configuration layer to the web" and noted "strong objections by other implementers" including Mozilla and Apple. Apple's WebKit lead, Maciej Stachowiak, [10]for example , was concerned about "bad faith claims," adding:.

How to prevent domains that are not actually owned and controlled by the same party from making claims of being related? For example, an ad network could get its top publishers to enter an association to regain a certain level of tracking powers.

The TAG concluded that "we consider the First Party Sets proposal harmful to the web in its current form... this proposal undermines the concept of origin, and we see origin as a load-bearing structural pillar of web architecture."

The review added: "It is likely that this proposal only benefits powerful, large entities that control both an implementation and services," leaving the reader to work out examples of such entities. Finally, the TAG warned of requests for new features "that depend on First Party Sets," noting that one such feature, SameParty Cookies, had already been submitted for review.

[11]

There are some strong words in this review, and it is also worth noting that [12]TAG members include Tim Bernes-Lee, inventor of the Web. Google has [13]already implemented both First Party Sets and SameParty cookies in Chrome 89, the current version, where they are included as an "origin trial" to "allow developers to try out new features and give feedback." Origin trials are off by default, but can be enabled by developers for a specific site after registration, or by the user in Chrome settings. ®

Get our [14]Tech Resources



[1] https://github.com/privacycg/first-party-sets

[2] https://www.theregister.com/2021/03/03/google_internet_tracking_pledge/

[3] https://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/jump?co=1&iu=/6978/reg_onprem/networks&sz=300x50%7C300x100%7C300x250%7C300x251%7C300x252%7C300x600%7C300x601&tile=2&c=2YG99MTPVpzSpUDu8RAGMIQAAAEg&t=ct%3Dns%26unitnum%3D2%26raptor%3Dcondor%26pos%3Dtop%26test%3D0

[4] https://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/jump?co=1&iu=/6978/reg_onprem/networks&sz=300x50%7C300x100%7C300x250%7C300x251%7C300x252%7C300x600%7C300x601&tile=3&c=33YG99MTPVpzSpUDu8RAGMIQAAAEg&t=ct%3Dns%26unitnum%3D3%26raptor%3Deagle%26pos%3Dmid%26test%3D0

[5] https://github.com/w3ctag/design-reviews/issues/342

[6] https://github.com/w3ctag/design-reviews/blob/main/reviews/first_party_sets_feedback.md

[7] https://www.theregister.com/2021/03/03/google_internet_tracking_pledge/

[8] https://github.com/w3ctag/design-reviews/issues/342

[9] https://web.dev/digging-into-the-privacy-sandbox/

[10] https://lists.webkit.org/pipermail/webkit-dev/2020-May/031222.html

[11] https://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/jump?co=1&iu=/6978/reg_onprem/networks&sz=300x50%7C300x100%7C300x250%7C300x251%7C300x252%7C300x600%7C300x601&tile=4&c=44YG99MTPVpzSpUDu8RAGMIQAAAEg&t=ct%3Dns%26unitnum%3D4%26raptor%3Dfalcon%26pos%3Dmid%26test%3D0

[12] https://www.w3.org/groups/other/tag/participants

[13] https://developer.chrome.com/origintrials/#/view_trial/988540118207823873

[14] https://whitepapers.theregister.com/

Google: Only Do Evil

Mage

This proposal is evil beyond belief!

Tom Chiverton 1

If Chrome wants to do this, they can just shove all their domains into the same origin anyway. It's their browser, if they want to break it. Stay out of everyone elses'.

At this point, if Google suggest something, the default should be "nope"; much like when the NSA 'suggest' encryption parameters...

Nay, Nay and Thrice Nay

The commentard formerly known as Mister_C

This is a malignant at sooo many levels.

google.com and google.co.uk are owned by the same corporation (*). There will be many, many cases where foo.com, foo.org, foo.co.uk and foo.eu below to different organisations. How will a user be able to give informed consent for blanket cookies to any of the foo?

That youtube belongs to google is (sort of) widespread knowledge. How does the average user know who "newly_aquired_startup.com" belongs to - the original founders, or the megacorp that bought them yesterday? And next week, when the megacorp sells them on? Which entity owns the blanket cookie then?

If I need to enable cookies in order to access a .gov.uk website, does this give the government carte blanche for a blanket cookie? Or does Crapita (provider of the service behind the .gov.uk) get the blanket cookie? Or do both get a golden ticket?

(*) They'll point out that they are discrete entities when they need - tax reasons, for instance.

Evolution

b0llchit

Next project is to morph chrome into the WWGW (World Wide Google Web) browser. It is a fork from the WWW and guarantees a platform with no interference from W3C. Finally we can evolve the web into a progressive vehicle, where only commercial interests will rule as it should be. Amazon, Microsoft and Facebook have already showed interest in the concept and have indicated a shared interest. Apple did not comment directly, but it is assumed, from off-the-record talks, that Apple's garden wall will soon be reinforced to new heights and an Apple iFork for iWeb may be in consideration.

The rest of the online shops will soon have to decide to become iShops or Gshops. This will be known to future generations as the Great Split of Power. There can no longer be an unprofitable backward compatible middle way.

Re: Evolution

RegGuy1

Hey, now that we have brexit we can do what we want and tell Google, Facebook, M$ and the rest to fuck off. We are sovereign and that's all that matters.

No, wait.

I don't think I've thought this through.

EU. Hello, EU. Can we come back again please? I think we may have shafted ourselves,

"No, we are not proposing to change the scope for permissions"

Pascal Monett

All we want is that everything Alphabet be recognized as a single entity, so we can scrape, pilfer and track everything with even more ease.

Google, go fuck yourself.

Tell me again why it's OK that ...

sbt

... the dominant advertising broker is also the dominant browser developer?

De-verticalise big tech now!

Don't be fooled, these aren't walled gardens, they're prisons.

the W3C Technical Architecture Group (TAG)

RM Myers

I don't understand. Is W3C a standard setting group for the internet? If so, why do we need another one? I thought that was Google's job. I'm fairly sure that Google agrees with me.

Re: the W3C Technical Architecture Group (TAG)

nematoad

Be careful.

Irony detection is a little lacking in some of the denizens of El Reg and you might get a load of down votes.

There really should be an "Irony" icon to avoid these little misunderstandings.

Re: the W3C Technical Architecture Group (TAG)

a pressbutton

Perhaps a picture of the Spanish Inquisition?

- unexpected and funny

"In those days spirits were brave, the stakes were high,
men were real men, women were real women, and small furry
creatures from Alpha Centauri were real small furry
creatures from Alpha Centauri. "