UK Test and Trace chief Dido Harding tries to convince MPs that £14m for canned mobile app was money well spent
- Reference: 1612363505
- News link: https://www.theregister.co.uk/2021/02/03/test_and_trace_not_waste_of_money_dido_harding/
- Source link:
One plank of the response to the deadly COVID-19 pandemic, Test and Trace, built its own app based on a centralised database of contacts, an approach that attracted a great deal of criticism, including here at [1]The Register .
[2]
[3]Following the June decision to abandon the technology , it took the decentralised approach to contact tracing advocated by [4]infosec experts , based on technology developed by Apple and Google.
The spending for the app mushroomed from the £26m in the budget to £43m, according to [5]a report [PDF] from spending watchdog the National Audit Office.
[6]
Speaking to the Parliamentary Science and Technology Committee, Dido Harding, former chief executive at TalkTalk whose tenure saw [7]one of the biggest information security breaches in UK corporate history , said the £14m spent on the central database approach was not wasted.
"Because of the work that we did with it, we were able to develop – together with Google and Apple – a much more effective algorithm, and Google and Apple have both recognised that."
Barely holding back a cynical laugh, former [8]programmer Dawn Butler, a Labour MP on the committee, pointed out that Google and Apple had been helping build contact-tracing apps around the world long before they'd begun working on the app for England and Wales, and had publicly stated (as The Reg pointed out [9]at the time ) that they would not support the centralised database model.
But ours has the QR code too!
Nonetheless, Harding pressed on. "For the record, Google and Apple didn't start working on their API until after we had started our own work. They have been on the record as saying that the UK app, combining both contract tracing and [QR code] venue check-in, is a world first," she said.
Harding's appearance in Parliament coincided with [10]bleak COVID-19 statistics for the UK . The Office for National Statistics (ONS) showed a total death toll of 117,000 as of 22 January. The second wave has been deadlier than the first, with 57,701 between last spring and the end of August and 59,677 since then, according to death certificates citing COVID-19.
Health Sec Hancock says UK will use Apple-Google API for virus contact-tracing app after all (even though Apple were right rotters) [11]READ MORE
The committee's chairman, Conservative MP Greg Clark, pressed Harding on the Test and Trace system's failure to mitigate a second wave and national lockdowns. He pointed out that the business case for spending £15bn on Test and Trace was the avoidance of a second national lockdown and the associated economic and social costs that come with it.
Harding responded: "We've delivered each and every one of the objectives that [were] set by [independent science advisory group] Sage. It is impossible for Test and Trace to single-handedly fight the disease: it is always going to be one element of our fight against COVID and it is not a silver bullet."
The total spending on NHS Test and Trace is expected to be £22bn, with £7bn yet to be allocated.
MPs also probed spending on consultants by the Test and Trace system, which a Parliamentary answer published in January revealed [12]had reached £375m, covering 2,300 individuals working for 73 suppliers .
Harding said the organisation established its service in nine months and a lot of the roles involved were not permanent. It would have been slower to recruit permanent staff and more costly in the long term, she argued.
A lot of the positions were "quite technical [in addressing] operational processes and systems design as we build the services" and many were no longer needed once the systems were completed, or would be transferred to the civil service as maintenance roles, she said.
[13]
Harding confirmed that the average spending per consultant was £1,100 per day. ®
Get our [14]Tech Resources
[1] https://www.theregister.com/2020/05/05/uk_coronavirus_app/
[2] https://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/jump?co=1&iu=/6978/reg_software/front&sz=300x50%7C300x100%7C300x250%7C300x251%7C300x252%7C300x600%7C300x601&tile=2&c=2YBrWp-eUsa@qSKwqKoPCAgAAANE&t=ct%3Dns%26unitnum%3D2%26raptor%3Dcondor%26pos%3Dtop%26test%3D0
[3] https://www.theregister.com/2020/06/18/uk_ditches_central_database_model/
[4] https://www.theregister.com/2020/04/20/coronavirus_contact_tracing_academics_social_graph/
[5] https://www.nao.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/The-governments-approach-to-test-and-trace-in-England-interim-report.pdf
[6] https://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/jump?co=1&iu=/6978/reg_software/front&sz=300x50%7C300x100%7C300x250%7C300x251%7C300x252%7C300x600%7C300x601&tile=3&c=33YBrWp-eUsa@qSKwqKoPCAgAAANE&t=ct%3Dns%26unitnum%3D3%26raptor%3Deagle%26pos%3Dmid%26test%3D0
[7] https://www.theregister.com/2017/02/01/dido_of_carnage_steps_down_from_talktalk/
[8] https://www.dawnbutler.org.uk/about/
[9] https://www.theregister.com/2020/05/04/uk_covid_app_human_rights_parliament/
[10] https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/deathsregisteredweeklyinenglandandwalesprovisional/weekending22january2021
[11] https://www.theregister.com/2020/06/19/uk_looks_to_apple_and/
[12] https://www.theregister.com/2021/01/06/uk_test_and_trace_consultants/
[13] https://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/jump?co=1&iu=/6978/reg_software/front&sz=300x50%7C300x100%7C300x250%7C300x251%7C300x252%7C300x600%7C300x601&tile=4&c=44YBrWp-eUsa@qSKwqKoPCAgAAANE&t=ct%3Dns%26unitnum%3D4%26raptor%3Dfalcon%26pos%3Dmid%26test%3D0
[14] https://whitepapers.theregister.com/
Re: Baroness Harding
Oh f*** no - even just the thought of that is enough to make anyone cack their pants!
£15bn on Test and Trace
bn, two small, insignificant letters.
Dido, Queen of Carnage.
[1]Dido, Queen of Carnage .
[1] https://www.theregister.com/2017/02/01/dido_of_carnage_steps_down_from_talktalk/
Re: Dido, Queen of Carnage.
Easily distinguished from Dido, Queen of Carthage, because our Dido salts her own fields.
"Harding confirmed that the average spending per consultant was £1,100 per day."
I'm an IT developer specialising in HTML-based information processing systems. I've got nearly 2 decades of experience in the field. Sounds like I shouldn't have a problem landing a fee like that. If I throw in data storage experience, it should be a guarantee!
/s
Given Ms Harding's technical knowledge, I'm sure she'd never realise that I was just talking about a "hello world" website that I built back in school. The index page file is stored on a hard drive somewhere, I'm sure.
[Apple & Google] have been on the record as saying that the UK app … is a world first
[1]Citation needed [Gratuitous promo for XKCD merch]. I have not been able to find any.
[1] https://store.xkcd.com/products/citation-needed-sticker-pack
Dido Demolished
On the same broadcast Dido's accentuating of the positive (80% of contagious staying home) reasoning
was proficiently and politely demolished by Ex Health Secretary Hunt who got her to admit that there are
at least 20000 or so people known to have Covid not staying home. Then he asked Why?
Dido didn't know
if it was for economic reasons or not!
(Paris for the deaf ear)
Re: Dido Demolished
at least 20000 or so people known to have Covid
at least 20000 or so people detected as possible contacts . Whether they have COVID or not is unknown.
Catch 22
Did she have hand in the NHS vaccination booking web site too?
It has a neat Catch 22. You get the letter to go to the web page or ring 119. Then you can only book an appointment for your first one - IF you can also secure a date for your second one some 12 weeks hence. No escape route - book both or you get none.
Stevenage Super Centre has the whole of this week with vacant slots for first jabs - but is not offering any dates for the future. The result is that you can't confirm the booking for your first one. The 119 phone line says they use the same web page - and they have the same Catch 22 situation.
Seems like someone hasn't adjusted to the change from a 3 week gap to a 12 week gap.
I'll now have to sit tight and wait for the call from my GP.
Re: Catch 22
Not when I booked my jab two weeks ago. Got text with link. Click on that, confirm your birth date and then choose your appointment. All done in 4 clicks/1 minute. If only all online bookings were that simple.
The jab, at my GP surgery, was even slicker than the flu jab. Walk straight in, confirm birth date, "have you got Covid-19", jab and a 15 min pause on the way out. Brilliant with lots of volunteer marshalls.
I put it down to being NHS organised which has been the one shining star of this pandemic. Whereas T&T stumbles from disaster to catastrophe. The unpreparedness for the surge testing in mind boggling. Unbriefed testers, barcodes not working and a two day delay.
Maybe we could swap Dido for her South Korean counterpart? Just compare the numbers. Kim Jong-un would find her a more effective killing machine than his crack army unit.
Re: Catch 22
Judging by friends - it seems like the difference is whether you get a letter from the NHS - or direct contact from your GP.
Another friend went online after her NHS letter today - and booked her first without having the Catch 22. She was told she would receive a contact with a date for the second one later. So it appears the response may depend on which centre is doing your first jab - unless the system has changed in the last couple of hours.
Edit: Nope still same Catch 22 brick wall
Re: Catch 22
I'm not sure if this applies to my parents in Warwickshire (93 and 88 years old). My father has had his first jab, and the same centre has said they can give my mother her jab while she sits in the car as she has great difficulty walking. Admittedly my father does have a date for his second jab, but they seem quite pleased with how it is being managed.
Re: Catch 22
I'm beginning to think I will have to game the NHS online system. Book my first jab at the nearby Super Centre this week - and select one of the offered inaccessible alternative locations for the second. Then after having the first jab - cancel the second and see what is sensibly available in 12 weeks' time.
Don't like wasting resources like that - but 119 assure me that my failed attempts so far will not have created any bookings.
Re: Catch 22
I have just received one of those letters. It is as useful as a chocolate fireguard.
I filled in all the fields and went to see where I could get the jab. It gave me quite a few to choose from. There was only one problem. I live on the Isle of Wight and all the vaccination centres were on the mainland. So if I wanted to go to Bournemouth or Southampton it would not have been a problem but I didn't think that taking the ferry across and then using public transport, if available, was a very good idea.
Sure the distances don't look too bad, 15 or 22 miles etc but somehow they seem to have missed that there is a bloody great ditch in the way. It happens all the time with government sites. It would be nice if someone told them that we can't just walk across.
So now I will have to wait until the GP surgery I have been transferred to realise I am on their books and make an appointment that way.
Proof if anything was needed that you can't swap careers.
She was much better with Eminem.......
She's no angel
Classic drivel, top notch!
"Because of the work that we did with it, we were able to develop – together with Google and Apple – a much more effective algorithm, and Google and Apple have both recognised that."
Never admit defeat, never admit fault, attach yourself to the winners, pat yourself on the ass for doing so...
Stop icon for Stop employing her, please!
Re: Classic drivel, top notch!
"Never admit defeat, never admit fault, attach yourself to the winners, pat yourself on the ass for doing so..."
I didn't think Eton had girl pupils yet?
Re: Classic drivel, top notch!
It had a trial run, in the 80s. Same time as Boris was there, in fact.
"[...] attach yourself to the winners,[...]"
attach yourself to the winners chancers,
FTFY
Normally I have a lot to say, but today I feel like shit
So I am just gonna say:
CUNT
But
it's world-beating!
Cheap at that price
Just think, we could have bought more than 200 F-35s for what Dido spent on a partially functional Track & Trace system.
F35s
Then we can use one to drop a B61-12 on her.
Icon... because.
Re: Cheap at that price
£22bn allocated for the whole Track & Trace system, not all spent yet. "Only" £48 million for the (cr)app.
Those consultants
I remember reading an article by the BBC's Rory Celery Jones (keep reading) where he was asked to be a consultant for the NHS app. In fairness to him, he said he turned it down. Even he knew if it needed technical expertise, he should be at the back of the queue rather than the front.
I can't help but think, most of the other consultants would be just as unsuitable.
Re: Those consultants
It was not unusual 40 years ago for the next person currently "on the bench" to be dispatched to fill a request. Whether they were an expert - or had only seen the manual - was irrelevant to the PHB.
Re: Those consultants
Anyone who though an app could possibly work would be just as unsuitable. Short of mandating it on every phone it was obvious from the start that it would never have enough takers. Who's going to download and run an app which might order them to stay isolated at home, with no way to object or to find out if it was a false alarm?
Every country that made such apps available has quietly dropped the whole idea.
Re: Those consultants
That would be consistent with the 'it's not what you know but who you know that matters approach by so many PHBs when they need to get things done, but cannot be bothered to think about who would actually be the best people to do it. In BoJo's position, needing an effective test and trace programme, I would have just phoned up Sir Paul Nurse (microbiologist, Nobel laureate for medicine, former president of the Royal Society) and asked his advice, or just told him to get on with it and let me know what he needs next week.
In this country we have an abundance of superb scientists, engineers, IT specialists, and frankly I find the Test and Trace farce embarrassing, were it not so important it would be a joke.
For the record, Ms Harding is either misinformed or lying. Google and Apple had their decentralised Track & Trace apis published before the NHS even had their first app on GitHub.
As for adding the QR code feature... wow scan a barcode & update a database! That must have taken 1 day max to implement.
"For the record, Ms Harding is either misinformed or lying."
Maybe she's just in the alternative reality (parallel universe?) of which Trump was President, where whatever one utters must by definition be the truth..
If you aren't aware you're spouting nonsense, can you legitimately be accused of lying?
Re: "For the record, Ms Harding is either misinformed or lying."
"[...] can you legitimately be accused of lying?"
Probably comes under the same category as "Ignorance of a law is no defence".
Plenty of money, but
14 million wasted is a lot, but on scale of a 15 billion project it looks smaller.
As for the consultants, I think that the firm that set up our Peoplesoft system ca. 1998 billed at least $125/hour for the project manager. Now, I doubt he billed many 8-hour days, but any such day would have been $1000 or more then. The question ought to be whether one gets value for the money. I did have my doubts about one or two of the expensive consultants from that firm.
Baroness Harding
the Queen of turning gold into poo. Can't wait til she gets elected the next PM...