Canonical turns to Google framework for new installer, but community asks why not have a Flutter on GTK?
- Reference: 1612353720
- News link: https://www.theregister.co.uk/2021/02/03/canonical_turns_to_google_flutter/
- Source link:
Martin Wimpress, Canonical's director of engineering, [1]said that "the current Ubuntu Desktop installer, Ubiquity, dates back to 2006," and that it had become a maintenance burden.
[2]
There is a newer installer for Ubuntu Server, called Subiquity, that is written in Python and wraps a bare-bones installer called curtin.
Wimpress said the intention was to create a single consolidated installer for both server and desktop, and that the desktop frontend for the new installer will use Google's Flutter framework following work Canonical has [3]already done to give Flutter Linux support. Work has started and can be found on GitHub [4]here .
[5]
A preliminary version is set for availability in October, for the upcoming 21.10 release of Ubuntu, with full transition to the new installer in the April 2022 long-term support release, Hirsute Hippo. The new installer will adopt the Ubuntu look and feel, known as [6]Yaru .
The new installer will have new features including a repair option, judging from early screenshots posted by Wimpress.
Why Flutter?
Wimpress said that "Flutter is a great open-source technology to deliver highly optimised desktop applications for Linux," and in one sense the choice is not surprising given that he championed the development of Flutter's Linux support.
There are some concerns from the Ubuntu community, though. Flutter "doesn't even follow any GTK and GNOME HIG [Human Interface Guidelines] or style," [7]said developer Kristijan Zic. "To me the new installer looks a lot like it's following a design language of Android," meaning Google's Material Design.
Zic added: "Imagine Android, ChromeOS or Windows using GTK for their installer."
Rudra Saraswat, creator of Ubuntu Unity and part of the Ubuntu documentation team, [8]asked how the new installer would work with regard to custom theming for other distributions, and whether it would work on QT desktops such as Kubuntu, bearing in mind that "there are many UI glitches that occur when using applications that use the Flutter toolkit on QT desktops like KDE."
Google's reputation for scrapping projects also earned a mention. "Google has a way of abandoning projects such as these," [9]said Ubuntu user Luis Pabon.
That said, there is also support for Canonical's decision. Flutter on Linux does use GTK3 so it may be possible to render a Yaru design correctly – though the framework is primarily designed to draw on its own user interface rather than using native controls.
User Merlijn Sebrechts said that GTK3/GNOME applications were hard to develop and [10]that Flutter "is a great compromise: it's almost as easy to use as Electron, but it creates native binaries and has native integration with GTK."
He said he sees Flutter as strategic for Canonical, making it easier to develop apps for Linux.
[11]
It does look like Canonical's installer plans are well advanced so a Flutter-based replacement for Ubiquity is likely on the way, despite the reservations of some community members. ®
Get our [12]Tech Resources
[1] https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/refreshing-the-ubuntu-desktop-installer/20659
[2] https://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/jump?co=1&iu=/6978/reg_software/front&sz=300x50%7C300x100%7C300x250%7C300x251%7C300x252%7C300x600%7C300x601&tile=2&c=2YBrWq4CwOJPn4TT0JUz4wAAAAIk&t=ct%3Dns%26unitnum%3D2%26raptor%3Dcondor%26pos%3Dtop%26test%3D0
[3] https://www.theregister.com/2020/07/08/flutter_for_linux_desktop_apps/
[4] https://github.com/canonical/ubuntu-desktop-installer
[5] https://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/jump?co=1&iu=/6978/reg_software/front&sz=300x50%7C300x100%7C300x250%7C300x251%7C300x252%7C300x600%7C300x601&tile=3&c=33YBrWq4CwOJPn4TT0JUz4wAAAAIk&t=ct%3Dns%26unitnum%3D3%26raptor%3Deagle%26pos%3Dmid%26test%3D0
[6] https://github.com/ubuntu/yaru
[7] https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/refreshing-the-ubuntu-desktop-installer/20659/15
[8] https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/refreshing-the-ubuntu-desktop-installer/20659/23
[9] https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/refreshing-the-ubuntu-desktop-installer/20659/24
[10] https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/refreshing-the-ubuntu-desktop-installer/20659/29
[11] https://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/jump?co=1&iu=/6978/reg_software/front&sz=300x50%7C300x100%7C300x250%7C300x251%7C300x252%7C300x600%7C300x601&tile=4&c=44YBrWq4CwOJPn4TT0JUz4wAAAAIk&t=ct%3Dns%26unitnum%3D4%26raptor%3Dfalcon%26pos%3Dmid%26test%3D0
[12] https://whitepapers.theregister.com/
Re: It won't matter...
My preferred GNU/Linux desktop distribution is Linux Mint Debian Edition.
As a FreeBSD fangirl, that is obviously my first choice, and I use vanilla Debian on server workloads that don't work on FreeBSD.
Re: It won't matter...
Indeed I may migrate from regular Mint to Debian Edition. I was a keen Ubuntu user maybe 12 years ago, but they lost the plot long ago. Mint with Mate Desktop has been my main Laptop system now since Dec 2016, though XP was my laptop OS from 2002 to Oct 2016 when I switched to Win7 and Linux Mint dual boot on a new laptop,
Re: It won't matter...
For me it's Debian for server and Fedora for the desktop/laptop as I like having new hardware support one doesn't get with debian.
I've never understood the draw to ubuntu as its no easier to install than debian and like debian its desktop experience is just as rough round the edges, but you have less of a say about what's bungled with it
Google Framework
What are they smoking and drinking in Canonical? It's bad enough that people have to have it on Android!
Couldn't decide if Flame, D'oh, Nuclear, or splattered keyboard was a better icon.
I do have one Android based gadget that has an on-off switch for it. This is REALLY stupid.
They certainly need something better than Ubiquity. AFAICS you can partition the disk without LVM or you can use LVM with no flexibility because all you get are root and swap partitions. Not even a separate /home.
There is no native...modern developers be modern innit
Even on Windows:
* Windows Setup uses EdgeHTML, WinForms and UWP (as the OOBE process is a clusterfsck)
* The desktop environment uses a mix of EdgeHTML, Chromium, WinForms and UWP
* Edge uses Skia+Chromium
* OneDrive uses Qt
* Teams uses Electron
With exception to Teams, the above stuff ships as part of the base system these days and there's no escaping this mess because even in World Of Fruit, a ton of cross-platform frameworks are used for common third party apps. Gone are the days where people wrote cleverly abstracted backend functionality and paired it with separate UI implementations for each system.
GTK folks don't care about backwards compatibility between major versions, Qt folks don't care about long-term support, UWP is a dying fad and HTML-as-a-UI (ala Electron) is stupid.
What damage can Flutter do to Linux distros that everything else hasn't done already?
How is said damage any different to that occurring on other systems?
As if I needed even more reasons to not use Ubuntu
Next thing you know you will need a Google/Canonical Account.
The thing is just Debian with a nice paint job.
Drop Mir
Canonical spent the past years working on the Mir display server; a project which went essentially nowhere even as it continues to limp along. Imagine if they had put all that time, effort and money into improving GTK or heck, building its own GUI toolkit.
Between the Snap debacle and now this Flutter thing for an essential part of the operating system, one has to wonder what Canonical's thought processes are behind these decisions. What are the chances that Google will drop Flutter in ~2 years from now, and leave Canonical to do the maintenance for not just itself, but the entire community it has managed to attract by then?
When it comes to Linux, I'm primarily a Manjaro (XFCE) user, so little of what Ubuntu does affects me. Even so, it does have the effect of making me glad to not be on the Debian side of the fence. Thanks, Ubuntu. /s
It won't matter...
...What the community wants. That's what Ubuntu's recent history has taught me. A lot of us were opposed to Snap being the default package manager, but it's what we have. I am going to be off of Ubuntu soon. OpenSUSE is looking very attractive, as is Void.