Scotch eggs ascend to the 'substantial meal' pantheon as means to pop to pub for a pint during pernicious pandemic
- Reference: 1606830426
- News link: https://www.theregister.co.uk/2020/12/01/scotch_egg_substantial_meal/
- Source link:
Is it 2m social distancing, or 1.5? Is it stay at home, save lives, protect the NHS, or hands, face, space? If a Tier 2 resident meets a Tier 3 resident, does the planet explode? Not if it's Christmas, it would seem, but only as long as the window is open.
Number 10's loathsome affection for meaningless soundbites doesn't help, and the current vapid debate rocking the press is this – what constitutes a "substantial meal"?
Under the system due to come into force tomorrow with the end of Lockdown 2.0, pubs in Tier 2 will not be allowed to serve drinks unless they come with a "substantial meal" and table service. Everyone must be out by 11pm too.
Now environment secretary George Eustice has stirred the pot by suggesting a scotch egg – classically finger food though recently gentrified by relatively pricey gastro boozers – could be considered hearty grub.
Conjuring the opinion from thin air, [1]he told London radio station LBC : "I think a scotch egg probably would count as a substantial meal if there were table service. Often that might be as a starter, but yes, I think it would."
[2]
A delicious, oozing scotch egg
Eustice insisted it's a term "understood in licensing" – as did Number 10 when pushed for clarity by LBC. "It's a principle that's well established in the hospitality industry and it's something they've been applying for some time," a spokesbeing said.
The Register asked a contact who manages a pub what he understands by the term, and he said: "Technically the 'substantial meal' is already in place because that allows 16 year olds to have an alcoholic drink with a 'substantial meal'. Whenever that has happened we have only ever done it with a full, table meal."
But when asked if the definition has ever been more concrete than that, he said the government "have basically turned around and gone, 'you should already know what a substantial meal is.'"
The problem is that no one will officially draw a line between bar snacks and "substantial meals". Whether this is to give pubs some wriggle room when the Five-Oh come crashing through the door or just plain incompetence is anyone's guess at this point.
Police raids over interpretation of the "substantial meal" have happened. Back in October, Manchester pizza restaurant Common was told to stop serving "fucking massive" – their words, not ours – [3]22-inch slices because some cops reckoned it didn't count, but couldn't say why.
SLICES ARE CANCELLED 👮👮♂️ The po-po came and shut down our by-the-slice game yday so now it’s FULL 14” and 22” pizzas only. Slices cut from 22 inch pizzas don’t fit the substantial food brief but they couldn’t tell us what substantial food was. [4]pic.twitter.com/bNS8kJB0lP — Common Pizza Takeaway (@common_bar) [5]October 24, 2020
They added: "It's almost as if the brief is just a slogan... and nobody on the frontline has been given any substantial info beyond that. This government leading with baseless sloganeering? UNPRECEDENTED TIMES!" Common was later allowed to continue serving them through the pandemic.
Nor is it the first time a minister has kicked the "substantial meal" landmine. Housing secretary Robert Jenrick [6]told LBC in October that "a Cornish pasty with chips or side salad" would be acceptable at a table in a pub. Cornish pasty and chips? No wonder we're the fat man of Europe.
In Brighton, however, a landlord thinks he's found a loophole in the Tier 2 restrictions by [7]serving a pint named "Substantial Meal" . So, as you can see, this is going well.
Is a boiled egg wrapped in sausage a "substantial meal"? We'd argue it can be. [8]The Register 's take , courtesy of the late Lester Haines' "post-pub nosh neckfiller" series, goes down like a lead bullet. Give it a try.
Before you swan off to the kitchen, a word of advice. We all want our beloved taverns to still be there when this is over, but use your best judgment. Stay at home, get some tinnies in, and browse the [9]post-pub nosh archives for more unambiguously substantial grub.
Hat-tip to reader Kavan for reminding us we have literal stacks of ugly-delicious recipes lurking within El Reg 's jiggling underbelly. ®
Get our [10]Tech Resources
[1] https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/environment-secretary-scotch-eggs-probably-count-as-substantial-meal/
[2] https://regmedia.co.uk/2020/12/01/scotcheggsmallshutterstock.jpg
[3] https://metro.co.uk/2020/10/25/giant-pizza-slices-now-counted-as-substantial-after-restaurant-told-to-close-13477808/
[4] https://t.co/bNS8kJB0lP
[5] https://twitter.com/common_bar/status/1319936109221187585?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
[6] https://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/nick-ferrari/liverpool-pub-cornish-pasty-covid-restrictions/
[7] https://www.theargus.co.uk/news/18908701.loophole-tier-2-substantial-meal-rule-brighton-pub/
[8] https://www.theregister.com/2014/11/15/post_pub_nosh_scotch_egg/
[9] https://www.theregister.com/Tag/post-pub
[10] https://whitepapers.theregister.com/
Re: It's all bollocks
But they love it. More and more laws to bully the public with.
Re: It's all bollocks
It depends very much on the force/Chief Constable. Some have been very unhappy about this from Lockdown 1.0. It stems from the fact that we have a government that doesn't do detail, doesn't think things through. Right from the start policy has been chasing events instead of trying to get in front of them. I see they're now getting round to the idea that contact tracing should lead to testing and that the app should be able to provide payments for those it tells to isolate just like the manual tracing. And - who knows - they might even get round to deciding whether or not vaccination certificates will be issued.
New products and opportunities
Wasn't there a brewery somewhere that wanted to have drinks called "The usual" and "Something different" since many people go in and ask for a pint of the usual or say things like I'll try something different today.
I'm also wondering how long it will be before they come down hard on "large portion sizes" due to COVID weight gains, blah, blah, risk NHS or something
Perhaps one way around this is to have more eating challenge themed pubs that seem to be popular these days ?
Just set the eating challenge duration to be "6 hours" or something.
Re: New products and opportunities
One of my local brewers has a (very popular) beer called "Swift One"
"has only left people scratching their heads"
I don't believe this. I think most people understand the rules and the intent of the rules. As to whether the rules are rational and effective, that's another question, but there's plenty of information out there, and I think that the 'people scratching their heads' thing is something fabricated by people who don't agree with the regulations put in place.
If a publican knows what type of meal she has to serve to a 16 year-old drinking a beer, then she knows what what rules apply in tier 2 for getting a drink.
p.s. Hello from Cornwall, you disease ridden eastern bastards! That'll teach you to put the cream on first. ;-) ---->
Re: "has only left people scratching their heads"
Best ever comment on the leading controversy of the last 1,000 years!
"p.s. Hello from Cornwall, you disease ridden eastern bastards! That'll teach you to put the cream on first. ;-) "
Re: "has only left people scratching their heads"
"I think that the 'people scratching their heads' thing is something fabricated by people who don't agree with the regulations put in place."
Precisely, the whole period of Covid has been characterized by people, especially in the media and politician acting in a "deliberately thick" manner so that they can pretend they don't understand the rules. As soon as the "substantial meal" issue was first raised with local lockdowns that a newsreporter question a spokesperson from the pub trade over it and the reply that the rule was copied directly from the rules allowing under 18s to eat meals in a bar and thus was perfectly understood by any publican who wanted to keep his licence seemed to take the interviewer by surprise.
Re: "has only left people scratching their heads"
I think the fact that even the licensing teaching materials and examination never define what constitutes a 'substantial meal' doesn't really help much.
A lot of the rules are based around 'reasonable' behaviour such as when you 'reasonably' think a person is drunk, meaning you aren't allowed to serve them any more. Technically anyone is 'drunk' after 2 drinks; not many landlords out there refusing to sell someone a third pint though....
There's also some funny quirks that are generally ignored - quite a lot of places will happily serve Desperados beer/lager to a 16 year old with a meal, despite the fact that spirits such as tequila are absolutely not allowed to be served to under 18s even with food.
With so much of the rule being up to the judgement of the landlord/barstaff I fully agree that clarification is needed, especially with the overall vagueness of new restrictions and the potential penalties for being wrong.
Oi
Just because I don't know what I'm talking 'bout doesn't mean you can question my authority! As Cartman said, "Are you questioning my Authorityy?"
Re: Oi
Authoritah, shirley?
Just drink Guinness. The fourth food group.
According to New Scientist, you can get your recommended daily nutrients from just one pint of milk, one pint of orange juice and 36 pints of Guinness.
Best check that there isn't a toilet paper shortage first, though.
one pint of milk, one pint of orange juice and 36 pints of Guinness
Just add vodka to complete the cocktail recipe, and you'll have yourself a nice little 'Mudslide', but not in a good way....
My home made scotch eggs are a substantial meal.
A goose egg (>3 chicken eggs) and 6 oz of minced pork.
I like the idea that you have to leave the pub when you've finished your meal. I reckon my mines not finished until I've had a brandy and 27
pints.
Re: My home made scotch eggs are a substantial meal.
In Australia they were using at a time emu eggs.
But then they lost the war...
11pm and cornflakes
The article says everyone should be out by 10. I'm fairly sure the new rule is 11, although they have to make their last orders by 10.
The regulations themselves don't actually contain the phrase "substantial meal" and I reckon you can get away with serving cornflakes.
The Health Protection (Coronavirus, Restrictions) (All Tiers) (England) Regulations 2020 say that the meal must be "such as might be expected to be served as breakfast, the main midday or main evening meal, or as a main course at such a meal."
They're here:
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/1374/made
Re: 11pm and cornflakes
Excellent "such as might be expected to be served as breakfast,"
Given my breakfast is normally a couple of slices of bread & a spread of some sort (be it jam. peanut butter, marmalade, whatever)
So any sandwich or equivalent would count.
Re: 11pm and cornflakes
"such as might be expected to be served as breakfast,"
To a functioning alcoholic that phrase means a few beers or a generous quantity of spirit.
Re: 11pm and cornflakes
"such as might be expected to be served as breakfast".
That will be two slices of toast with no butter then.
Re: 11pm and cornflakes
Surely "just dry white toast, ma'am"?
H/T Elwood Blues
The Lucky 01rish :-) ........ always the Reliable Rogue and Riotous Rebel in Revolt ....
...... and Up for Doing Things Differently
A healthy draught of the creamy black Guinness product both sets up and has overwhelmed many a stout soul whenever treated and delivered as a substantial meal.
Who hasn't fallen head over heels and been a willing witness in actions smitten and propelled by its awesome charming capture ........ on any number of occasions doing the product proud? :-) Put it on your bucket list if the experience is missing in your portfolio.
This endorsement was not/is not yet brought to you by Guinness Pilots for a Brewery at St. James’s Gate. .....where similar such fuels mastered there are bound to be guaranteed exceptional. They are after all bonded liquor license holders.
Re: The Lucky 01rish :-) ........ always the Reliable Rogue and Riotous Rebel in Revolt ....
upvoted for the 'stout soul'...
they couldn’t tell us what substantial food was
What a complete effing joke.
It is like this with the schools. They demand that every school provide a "substantial" school meal during the COVID-19 crisis but (as usual) leave it up to the head teacher to define what that meal should be or what substantial means. My lot come home and say that they get a pack of crips, a choice of sandwich, an apple and a small orange drink on good days.
It's hard to be critical without being labelled
However it really is colossal clusterfuck. Ignoring the widespread corruption, cronyism and double standards, the simple reality is the government are incapable of either asking for assistance or acknowledging they are wrong. On anything.
Every time I see one of the prime wazzocks on television they evade answering questions, repeat the same nonsense answers or spit off more and more soundbites. I could almost forgive them this (almost) if it weren't for the fact that every single thing they say or do is measured first and foremost against potential backlash.
Nothing is genuinely done to give benefit, because it's the the right course of action or due to the fact we deserve some honesty. It's all done to try and mitigate fallout and that should not be the primary driver. This is why you end up with debates about scotch eggs* a substantial meal and folk spending time devising workarounds.
They are, as long as served with crisps (preferably Seabrooks)
Why do you need rules?
This bastard virus will either :
a - Kill you
b - Leave you incapacitated for a looong time
c - Or kill your granny
Why do you need the government to tell you to be careful!!
---> me putting on my labcoat...
Re: Why do you need rules?
"Leave you incapacitated for a looong time"
On LBC this morning they mentioned they would be talking to someone who had been suffering from "Long COVID" for nearly 24 months. Interesting.
Re: Why do you need rules?
Many people will suffer very little side-effects from the virus. Doesn't mean it isn't a serious illness, but it's not ebola or cholera.
Re: Why do you need rules?
but it's not ebola or cholera.
Quite right - the vaccines against ebola and cholera are already approved and available.
Re: Why do you need rules?
Yes, but they also have far higher mortality rates.
Re: Why do you need rules?
"Many people will suffer very little side-effects from the virus."
And the rest don't count? So let's put the bullet in the cylinder and spin it, shall we?
"Doesn't mean it isn't a serious illness, but it's not ebola or cholera."
Because if people were squirting blood from all orifices, then we'd take it seriously?
The problem is that Covid isn't a hollywood illness, if it was, then people would take more notice. As I said (or meant to say), these precautions aren't arbitrary rules like parking restrictions or stuff like that. We're in a public health crisis, and every single time we relax and take our eye off the ball, the numbers spike again.
It's just like The Inbetweeners. Now give me three pints of cider and three carveries, please
Oh fercrissakes. If "they" try to spell out precisely what is and is not a substantial meal, there will inevitably be edge cases and some smart-arse who thinks they've found a loophole which they can exploit. Much better to leave it as is:
1. Customer must order a substantial meal
2. Don't take the piss.
Dunno what this means: `This is how it "worked" before the second lockdown`. It was quite different a couple of months ago.
I'm vegan and on a diet. My substantial is not substantial.
I'm vegan and on a diet.
Self inflicted doesn't count.
A soft-boiled scotch egg?
What nonsense is this?
Re: A soft-boiled scotch egg?
Very good nonsense if you ask me. Don't like hard yolks. For variety, if you're in Manchester, I can recommend the "Manchester Egg" which uses pickled eggs, which always have soft yolks, and black pudding.
Keep the hard-boiled ones for hurling at the clueless hordes of government ministers.
Re: A soft-boiled scotch egg?
What nonsense is this?
IMHO the correct response should be What kind of talk is that, then in a voice that might just sound like John Cleese.
The Twelve Tasks of Asterix...
Where you can see an example of a "substantial" meal
(even if it was just appetisers for Obelix)
In Ireland they applied a "€9 euro substantial meal" rule with a 1hr 45min max time rule seated. I know many UK pubs serve food priced under that amount but surely having a set min limit and a max time seated would have made more sense.
But then I look at the UK Gov and realise that using a scotch egg quantity measure (and having mixed messages about it) is about the right incompetence level expected....
It's all bollocks
If you ate seventeen packets of cheese and onion crisps or a dozen packs of peanuts, I defy anyone to deny that is not a substantial meal.
The cops ought to be embarrassed at even attempting to police such unclear and undefined regulations.
All I can say, is thank his noodlyness FSM that I live in Spain and have no such problems.