Tax working from home, says Deutsche Bank, because the economy needs that lunch money you’re not spending
- Reference: 1605246910
- News link: https://www.theregister.co.uk/2020/11/13/working_from_home_tax_deutsche_bank/
- Source link:
The Bank floated the idea in [1]Konzept , an publication it describes as “a research magazine published at regular intervals that addresses the fundamental issues driving the world of economics and finance.”
A new issue of Konzept published this week considers “What we must do to rebuild” and suggests the work-from-home tax as one useful measure.
“Quite simply, our economic system is not set up to cope with people who can disconnect themselves from face-to-face society,” the Bank’s “Macro strategist” Luke Templeman [2]wrote [PDF]. He therefore suggested that those who continue to work from home during or after the pandemic indirectly fund efforts to help those whose jobs they inadvertently destroy, because most of them have cut personal costs as a result of not having to pay for clothes, lunches, transport and even after-work drinks.
If a city-centre sandwich shop is no longer needed, it does not make sense for the government to support the business in the medium term
“The sudden shift to WFH means that, for the first time in history, a big chunk of people have disconnected themselves from the face-to-face world yet are still leading a full economic life,” Templeman wrote. “That is a big problem for the economy as it has taken decades and centuries to build up the wider business and economic infrastructure that supports face-to-face working. If a great swathe of assets lie redundant, the economic malaise will be extended.”
Templeman proposed that the tax only kick in at times when governments are no longer advising working from home as a pandemic-prevention measure. But once the all-clear is sounded, he wants employers that don’t provide desks to pay up, or employees that choose to keep working from home to foot the bill.
He wants the tax to be levied at five percent of a worker’s salary and calculates that comes to about $10 a day.
What to do with the money raised? Templeman advocated using it to help those whose jobs are destroyed by the pandemic.
“If, for example, a city-centre sandwich shop is no longer needed, it does not make sense for the government to support the business in the medium term,” he wrote. “But it does make sense to support the mass of people who have been suddenly displaced by forces outside their control.”
And Templeman reckons the tax could raise enough to make a difference for the displaced.
His calculations found that the USA, Great Britain and Germany would raise annual sums of $48bn, of £6.9bn and €15.9bn respectively.
The proposal did not go down well in The Register ’s distributed office, with one staffer saying “I'm not working from home, I’m living at work.”
Anticipating such opposition, Templeman argued that the tax is just an example of governments moving with the times.
UK tax dept's IT savings created 'significant risk', technical debt as it faces difficult conversation with Chancellor [3]READ MORE
“Some will argue against the tax,” he wrote. “They will say that engagement with the economy is a personal choice and they should not be penalised for making that decision. Yet, these people should remember that governments have always backsolved taxes to suit the social environment.”
“Consider that in centuries past, when it was socially unpalatable in the UK to introduce an income tax, the government implemented a window tax. As society changed, the window tax was abolished and, eventually, an income tax was introduced.”
“In the same way, as our current society moves towards a state of ‘human disconnection’, our tax system must move with it.” ®
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[1] https://www.dbresearch.com/PROD/RPS_EN-PROD/Konzept__Research_magazine_on_fundamental_issues_driving_the_world_of/PROD0000000000435639.alias
[2] https://www.dbresearch.com/PROD/RPS_EN-PROD/PROD0000000000513736/A_work-from-home_tax.pdf?undefined&realload=T2dkv4Q90tyUCxQbJVB481JFB/vr8gjn8cTsC07U29mQDDUzNJa4vtJvUXAQPS/hOINxBxJTtTDU~7009w/scQ==
[3] https://www.theregister.com/2020/11/10/hmrc_it_savings_leave_significan/
[4] https://whitepapers.theregister.com/
Re: Fuck off, Deutsche Bank
+1. Shouldn't they be busy laundering some oligarch's dirty money?
Re: Fuck off, Deutsche Bank
They are!
Tax failure to consume
Tax people who work from home for failing to drive
Tax dieters for saving on food
Tax the no-fappers for failing to consume porn
This is gaslighting
Re: Tax failure to consume
Should I have been taxed when working in an office as I made a packed lunch every day. Therefore by the thinking in the article I should be punished.
What next should you be charged for entering a shop if you don’t buy anything?
Re: charged for entering a shop
No silly. You will be taxed for not entering a shop when you do buy something.
Re: charged for entering a shop
Which will be less than the tax for not entering a shop and not buying something.
Re: Tax failure to consume
All the logical follow ons, tax people for using Amazon or online stores because the High Street needs their business.
I never used cafes or takeaways for lunch either, they were just too expensive. I know I wasn’t unusual in that.
Re: Tax failure to consume
The dead should be taxed because they are no longer providing funds for private health care.
Re: Tax failure to consume
The dead should be taxed. They already are: https://www.gov.uk/inheritance-tax
Re: Tax failure to consume
Tax the f'ing wankers, who make money than the average.
If the average worker spends X % of his disposable income on necessities (rent, food, etc.), than tax the hell out of wankers who need to spend much less such things.
Re: Tax failure to consume
Tax the failure to understand percentages!
Re: Tax failure to consume
@ComputerSays_noAbsolutelyNo
"Tax the f'ing wankers, who make money than the average."
We already do. In fact a flat tax would also tax more money from those who make more.
We have politicians dumb enough to do this
Think of all the bowyers, stringfellows, arrowsmiths and fletchers who lost their jobs in the 60's when the law requiring [1]archery practice was repealed. The tax on windows used to be dealt with by bricking them up. This is no longer required as these days we can install Linux. Surely I should be paying Microsoft for not using Windows as their business needs to be protected just like the bowyers.
Are sandwich makers really self employed or are they just using a personal services company to avoid taxes? I used to make my own sandwiches and take them to work. As I was using my customer's space and equipment while being supervised I was clearly an employee according to the IR35 website. With the new rules will I be arrested for hiring myself as a contractor instead of an employee when I make myself a sandwich at home?
[1] https://loweringthebar.net/2010/06/do-englishmen-still-have-to-show-up-for-longbow-practice.html
Re: We have politicians dumb enough to do this
We are already taxed on blank media because "Home Taping Is Killing Music" somehow.
Tax working from home... Says bank with investments in offices that now lie vacant...
No, it should be the opposite, tax breaks to reduce unnecessary travel that would lead to an increase in congestion and pollution.
Home workers have not stopped spending money, they have changed what they are buying.
True, just ask any electrician who now finds themselves installing a lot of outdoor hot tubs.
Or "heated sex ponds" if you want a more alluring name for them.
more alluring?
So stop all the Corona virus economic cluster fuck nonsense and restart normal life.
Hey, I have another few ideas for DB
What if we taxed all businesses that choose to layoff employees in order to boost profits?
What if we taxed all corporations that choose to outsource to low-wage countries?
I mean, it's their choice not to engage with the local economy, right?
Re: Hey, I have another few ideas for DB
It took specific weighting from the very top politicians to stop banks pay dividends right in the middle of a pandemic which would have put a lot of strain in the economic system they should fuel.
But they are sure in case of troubles they would be bailed out using tax payers money....
Moreover if you stop the nonsensical idea of moving taxes form income to spending (because it is far more advantageous for rich people shifting the tax burden to far less rich ones....), income taxes are the same if you live closed in a bunker or go around spending at will.
Yet we can still tax bankers for any time they don't spend at the office - with a specific surcharge when they spend time in luxurious places, especially abroad.
This is already happening
Employers offer working from home but at reduced pay -> More profits -> More corporation tax
Hey! Deutsche Bank!
How about you concentrate getting the hundreds of millions of dollars that Donald 'I won, I won, I won' Trump owes you rather than going after the little people.
See Icon
And that's why
The correct spelling is Douche Bank.
A bank with a questionable history.
Re: And that's why
A bank with a questionable history.
Like that narrows the field down ...
Parasites, the lot of them.
Right after...
We tax Deutsche Bank to the verge of extinction, these fuckers are underwritten by every member of the EU population. Yep, your governments gave your money to pricks like these. [if you live in the EU, obvs.]
Re: Right after...
DB is already extinct, since they are technically bankrupt for years.
For a decade it is on life support from the ECB, who gives them "free money" which they on their turn invest in junk bonds from the Greek, Italian and Spanish governments against normal market rates, so they can cover up their disastrous balance sheets.
The fact their existence depends on government support, is probably the reason they made these comments, since the taxes will guarantee his comfy job in his glass palazzo prozzo in Frankfurt.
It is the curse of our time the leeching and useless financial industry has such a great leverage on politics, the unavoidable crash of the Euro will be a good moment to get rid of them as well.
Bullshit
Templeman argued that the tax is just an example of governments moving with the times
Is it fuck. No government is proposing this yet. Rather, it is an example of yet another Banker finding reasons to screw ordinary people out of whatever small amount of surplus they can gain from what is a pretty shitty situation all round.
I have great sympathy for the small businesses being killed off by the shutdowns, but this isn't going to help the majority of them.
How about, instead, advocating that the businesses that have made even more massive profit from on-line trade due to Covid should give 5% of their increased profit to the tax man?
Re: Bullshit
"How about, instead, advocating that the businesses that have made even more massive profit from on-line trade due to Covid should give 5% of their increased profit to the tax man?"
They'll have paid the appropriate tax rate, as designed by the politicians paid by those large corporations and banks.
"Rather, it is an example of yet another Banker finding reasons to screw ordinary people"
Unfortunately, when it comes to taxation governments are all too keen to listen to "bright ideas" from financiers. A few centuries back, when English taxation was raised from 6d to a shilling in the pound (2.5% to 5%) to pay for a war, there were riots and the change had to be abandoned. Now, on average, we pay rather more than half our salaries to government throughout our working lives. Nevertheless, this doesn't seem to be enough to keep public services running smoothly and sufficiently. I suspect there's a lot of wastage, just as there is in food production.
Re: "Rather, it is an example of yet another Banker finding reasons to screw ordinary people"
Fortunately taxation is used to fund a few more things than wars these days.
Agreed some ( ok - lots of) wastage but social & health care, infrastructure ( roads, etc) , education and pensions didnt exist before taxes were introduced
https://www.ukpublicspending.co.uk/budget_pie_ukgs.php
Where is the saving?
We're not all car driving, car park using, readymade sandwich eating, shopaholics..
It's costing me money to work at home
Paying to boil the water for hot drinks
Paying for electricity to power the laptop, 2 large screens and dock
Extra water usage ( drinking , loo flushing, hand washing)
Keeping the heating on during the day
Soap - hand washing before eating ( every little cost adds up)
Paying to light my office - extra electricity and the LEDs will wear out sooner
Extra wear and tear - carpet in my office ( those chair castors soon fsck up a nice carpet), stair carpet, kitchen fixtures and fittings ( eg: kettle, )
I used to walk or cycle to work and I'd make my own lunches. Could someone from Deutsche Bank explain how I am better off being forced to work at home for the last 9 months?
OK - I know in the UK I can claim my £6/week tax free from my employer ( yeah - try that with a huge public organsiation) or ask HMRC to adjust my tax code accordingly. I'm also saving a small amount on shoe wear & tear and the chain and tyres on my bike might last a bit longer.
Erm...
Rather than tax the ordinary folk (myself included) who are having to deal with this shit due to no fault of their own, how about significant restitution being gained from either China, the WHO, or the World bank who have had 20 odd years of warnings of ever more virluent viruses that have had all of their origins in central China... but have done absolutely fuck all to prevent it.
Whilst I may sound a bit of a doom-monger, my major concern is that COVID is the thin end of a wedge that could potentially expand to a filovirus or an outbreak of some other as yet unevolved, but more lethal strain of respitory virus due to food poverty, economic migration and / or other methods of transmission.
I'm not expounding that we close our borders to those that need it, but if another more serious virus gets a hold then "the economy" will be the least of our concerns, but it seems that trying to get these ultra short-sighted bankers and "politicians" to get that message into their stupid childlike minds is another battle altogether.
I guess one option would be to educate people to stop eating bats. But I'm not sure how that gets enforced; or how you get these small-minded regimes to admit that they are a major part of the problem.
The stupidity of this idea beggars belief. What a total, evil, moron. Remove yet more money from those, who on average can little afford it. If he is such a capitalist, surely the answer is that those sandwich shops, pubs, bars, etc etc will eventually relocate to where the money is, viz nearer suburbia & housing estates. Thus improving that local economy.
Yet another example of the creeping socialism endemic in the EU, where the politicians cosy up to big business creating laws to enrich themselves "for our own good".
EU - really?
Where do you get the idea that this idea is socialist? It's nothing to do with redistribution of wealth but simply a way for the banks to lend more money. It's got fsckall to do with the EU.
Have a read of this - you might learn something
https://blackwells.co.uk/bookshop/product/Usborne-Politics-for-Beginners-by-Alex-Frith-author-Rosie-Hore-author-Louie-Stowell-author-Kellan-Stover-illustrator/9781474922524
According to the logic from Deutsche bank we should also be taxing electric vehicle owners an extra 5%, which will to pay those poor oil companies that are loosing out on petrol and diesel sales due to people driving EVs.
Economists
Economists confuse me.
All the transport workers, sandwich makers etc. who were previously supporting production in offices are no longer required. That sounds like an increase in productivity to me. Producing the same output with fewer people; a solution to the crisis of productivity stagnation that those economists have been complaining about for ages. But no, apparently now it's "a big problem for the economy."
Re: Economists
This simpleton has obviously never lived outside of a metropolis....
Before lockdown:
Cycled to work
Had breakfast and lunch provided (in my new office) / took food to work (in my old office)
Cycled home from work
Money spent in the city: $0
During lockdown:
Extra heating / lighting costs: around £15-20 a month
Cost of extra food for breakfast / lunch: Has got to be in the order of £50 a month (At least £30 of which is coffee)
Lunch in the local town when the weather is nice: £25 a month
Money spent locally: £95 a month
I'm worse off, like many of my colleagues, working from home and yet, conversely, I'm spending more money in my community.
And this is why, not only DB doesn't understand the habits of the population, but neither does Johnson, Gove et al.
Parasitic businesses
Parasitic businesses followed their prey to city workplaces, they can follow them to their new workplaces.
Maybe we can have a future where the these businesses embed themselves where people live again. The ones relying on distress purchasing will just have to come up with a more customer friendly business plan. Or die out.
not having to pay for clothes, lunches, transport and even after-work drinks
So people working from home spend the day naked, have no need for food and have all become teetotal?
Don't fink so.
Fuck off, Deutsche Bank
See title.