'This was bigger than GNOME and bigger than just this case.' GNOME Foundation exec director talks patent trolls and much, much more
- Reference: 1603452187
- News link: https://www.theregister.co.uk/2020/10/23/this_was_bigger_then_gnome/
- Source link:
McGovern talked to The Register ahead of the event on patents, Microsoft, and more.
The open source outfit is the default desktop environment on major Linux distributions including Ubuntu and Red Hat. In late August 2019, Rothschild Patent Imaging filed a lawsuit against the GNOME foundation claiming that GNOME Shotwell, a photo manager, infringed one of its patents.
“We didn't receive a letter before the court documents were filed or any sort of warning, it was just filed and then within a week there was a settlement request for $75,000,” McGovern told us.
“I guess it would have been easier if we just settled and moved on, but I felt that wasn't the right thing to do, and would have been a big problem in the future.”
[2]
GNOME executive director Neil McGovern
Instead, [3]GNOME Foundation said it would “vigorously defend against this baseless suit.” Nine months later, the [4]dispute was settled without payment , and “both Rothschild Patent Imaging and Leigh Rothschild are granting a release and covenant to any software that is released under an existing Open Source Initiative approved license.”
McGovern said he was “exceptionally pleased with the outcome… I felt it was incredibly important to send a message to the entire patent assertion industry that basically you don't go after open source projects. It won't end well for you.”
What enabled this achievement? Much of it comes down to funding, said McGovern. “Normally the way these entities work is that they want a quick payout and to move on. They don't want it to go to court.”
The idea of running a full free software stack on your phone, and people being in control of their computing on their phone, is something that has been lost, certainly for the moment
The problem though is that “to fully defend a pattern infringement case it usually costs about $10,000,000,” he said.
GNOME though got pro-bono representation from Shearman & Sterling LLP which was “a huge help,” said McGovern.
The Foundation also raised public funds, to meet “other costs that we had in defending it, flights, expert witnesses, patent searches, court filing fees, etc,” he said.
Microsoft, Windows Subsystem for Linux, and mobile devices
Moving onto matters new, Microsoft is working with Canonical to get a Linux GUI, no doubt GNOME based, running on Windows 10 via Windows Subsystem for Linux (WSL). What is the significance of that?
“I'm certainly very pleased to see that Microsoft are moving more towards encouraging open source development,“ said McGovern. “With regards to WSL in particular, I don't see it as a threat. Our priorities are around encouraging end user control over their own computer, end user freedom.
"I think the only way that that can happen is through use of a truly open source stack. A proper open source desktop.”
There is an issue in that despite rising use of Linux and open source, end user computing environments are getting more locked down. “In some ways, open source has won, it is ubiquitous, I think now 100 of the top 100 supercomputers are now running Linux,” said McGovern. “But there's still that challenge in that this isn't the sort of Utopia we all wished for when we first started doing this, people being able to control their own computing hasn't yet been reached.”
One of GNOME Foundation’s key challenges is “trying to ensure that Linux on the desktop grows and remains relevant in a world where we're seeing more and more services go online, where use of mobile computing [and] cloud computing is growing,” said McGovern.
He observes though that “the use of desktop computing, and I include laptops here, has actually increased, but there has been a huge rise in mobile devices. But it’s the thing people use when they want to get real work done, like writing an essay or doing your accounts.”
Is the big problem though that GNOME has lost on mobile, just as Microsoft has done? “We have things like Purism producing the [5]Librem mobile phone ,” said McGovern.
“But the idea of running a full free software stack on your phone, and people being in control of their computing on their phone, is something that has been lost, certainly for the moment. There is dominance from iOS and Android. It has become very expensive and complex to produce hardware and then ship something on it, as Nokia and Blackberry and Microsoft have found out.
"It’s hugely problematic. We don’t have the funding to try and drag that forward. If we had a big pot of money I’d love for us to be able to produce a mobile ourselves, but that’s not where we are at the moment.
Snaps and Flatpaks
[6]
Flathub, GNOME’s community-driven answer to Canonical’s Snap Store
The developers of Linux Mint are [7]troubled about Canonical’s Snap Store, what does McGovern think? “I don't have an issue with Snaps,” he said. “I do have a concern that the Snap Store is entirely gated by Canonical.”
“The effort that is going in to have application developers be able to target a single runtime or that works across distributions, I think is absolutely fantastic, and it's something that's been missing for many many years on Linux systems. For an app developer to go 'Hey, I want to make it available for MacOS and then for Windows and then these 30 different Linux distributions which all work in a special way' is just not something that is going to drive that ecosystem towards Linux.”
The GNOME answer is [8]Flatpaks and an associated repository called Flathub. “Unlike with Snaps, people can set up their own Flatpak repositories, so it becomes a lot more distributed in that people set up whatever they want. With Flathub, we're truly trying to make it a cross platform thing, so it's not just us, KDE have their stuff on there. And also including some proprietary applications, make a place where there is a App Store, but it is run on behalf of the community,” he said.
GNOME versioning: no repeat of 2 to 3 disruption
The current version of GNOME is 3.38, but the next, expected around March 2021, will be called GNOME 40. You could think of it as 3.40 because the Foundation is determined to avoid a repeat of the disruption caused when GNOME 3.0 appeared in 2011. The future will be regular small changes, not big bang releases, as [9]explained by the Foundation’s Emmanuele Bassi.
“We've reached the point where we have a platform that we're reasonably happy with,” said McGovern. “There isn't really a need for a big overhaul in the same way that that happened before. GNOME 2 and its technology stack was very limiting in what could be done, and there was a lot of old code there. Things are moving towards a more iterative approach.”
There will be no GNOME 4.0 because, “if we ever did release 4, then people would see it as a huge change in [that] everything's going to be broken again, and that's not really what we’ve got,” he said.
Even changes like the move from X to Wayland for the display protocol, which is a big technical change, can be done without disruption to users. “The idea is that users should not necessarily notice a difference, except that things will be smoother and potentially more fluid because they can actually use proper 3D acceleration,” said McGovern. “Our aim is to ensure that stuff which worked before continues to work. It’s actually a lot more secure way for people to use their computer. X had a lot of issues with its architecture.”
GNOME not just a desktop
[10]
The GNOME 3 desktop
GNOME, said McGovern, is not just a desktop. “Everything from [11]libxml which is used everywhere, [12]D-Bus and things like [13]GStreamer which is the audio visual framework that's used in millions of TV's and cars, is something that's come from GNOME itself because to produce this simple, easy to use desktop environment we have had to have lots of plumbing underneath it.
“As a foundation as well, we are also trying to drive not just the desktop, we do Flathub, we’re currently running a Community Engagement Challenge which is about teaching people how to contribute to open source software. We need to be able to do this to secure that future of people's control of their own computing, rather than just using a desktop. A lot of the stuff we do has a wider context.”
Defeating patent trolls is a great example. ®
Get our [14]Tech Resources
[1] https://events.linuxfoundation.org/open-source-summit-europe/
[2] https://regmedia.co.uk/2020/10/22/neil_mcgovern_gone_exec_director.jpg
[3] https://www.theregister.com/2019/09/25/gnome_sueball_shotwell/
[4] https://www.theregister.com/2020/05/21/gnome_foundation_settles_patent_troll_lawsuit/
[5] https://puri.sm/products/librem-5/
[6] https://regmedia.co.uk/2020/10/22/flathub.jpg
[7] https://www.theregister.com/2020/06/02/linux_mint_team_snap/
[8] https://www.flatpak.org/
[9] https://discourse.gnome.org/t/new-gnome-versioning-scheme/4235
[10] https://regmedia.co.uk/2020/10/22/gnomedesktop.jpg
[11] http://www.xmlsoft.org/
[12] https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/dbus/
[13] https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/GStreamer
[14] https://whitepapers.theregister.com/
Re: The main problem with making a mobile OS...
Google's Project Treble helped a lot, but the basic dilemma remains that the SoC and other hardware bits require binary blob drivers and companies like Qualcomm End-of-life their support for SoC around 18 months after release. That's pretty insane and also one of the underlying reasons why becomes really hard for anyone higher up the technology stack to promise much better than that. It's pretty much current and next major Android release and then you're done.
Re: The main problem with making a mobile OS...
Yes, but: I have phones more than five years old that still work fine, hardware wise. I would say the problem is that there are so many different phone hardware combinations, and that even within the same range of phones (e.g. Moto G's) you cannot rely on the next iteration being even vaguely similar (i.e. as far as I can tell from info on e.g. gsmarena). So the all people that know how to compile linux-for-phones end up switching platform all over the shop, possibly depending on whatever they happen to buy - because buying their previous Vendor's Thing+1 phone is not necessarily any help - and so it's hard to build up useful momentum.
I'd happily buy nothing but Samsung, or Moto, or any one vendor's phones if only I knew I could - after the vendor has given up with updates - get lineage/whatever installs for a long(er) time. Last year I resurrected a J1 using a not terribly formal internet -sourced rom ... but there are no more updates. I assume this is because why should that one guy keep wrangling a customised Lineage onto an old phone they no longer use, when their current phone is presumably not (even remotely) the same at all?
I'm just rebuilding my desktop ...
I have been running RedHat or Centos since about 1995, currently on CentOS 6 - which is dropping out of support soon. CentOS 8 would have been the natural upgrade but it comes with Gnome 3 - which is, as far as I am concerned, unusable. Mate (AKA Gone 2) is not available, XFCE doesn't quite make it; Fedora - I don't want to have to upgrade every year; so I am installing Debian - Mate is an option.
Re: I'm just rebuilding my desktop ...
If Mate is what you prefer, Linux Mint should be a good option. They officially support Mate as one of their three main desktop choices (the others being Cinnamon and XFCE).
Re: I'm just rebuilding my desktop ...
And there is a version of Linux Mint that's Debian instead of Ubuntu.
https://www.linuxmint.com/download_lmde.php
Re: I'm just rebuilding my desktop ...
If you're after a stable Linux distro that includes non-Gnome things, then [1]OpenSUSE Leap is worth trying out. :)
It's lifetime is measured in multiple years, receives timely updates, and has several desktop environments available.
Personally, I use [2]KDE , which CentOS 8 doesn't have (thus my switching). If you're not tried KDE out then it's worth a go as well. It's very much a full featured "traditional" desktop environment, that's very configurable if that's desired.
[1] https://software.opensuse.org/distributions/leap
[2] https://kde.org
Irrational fear of upgrades?
@Alain_Williams
Quote: "....Fedora - I don't want to have to upgrade every year...."
*
$ sudo dnf upgrade --refresh
$ sudo dnf system-upgrade download --refresh --releasever=33
$ sudo dnf system-upgrade reboot
$ sudo shutdown -r 0
*
So.......four commands and maybe an hour of your time.....what's the problem if this happens once "every year"? In my experience (F24 up to F32 so far), this is painless and mostly without any aggravation at all. Much, much easier than a bare metal install and data restore for each fedora release.
Re: Irrational fear of upgrades?
Speaking for myself, it's not so much the ease or otherwise of upgrading. It's that I have a stable system I'm using to do useful work and then a major system upgrade breaks something - trivial things like a change of a version of a component (eg mysql) breaking my config, a program losing a feature I've been relying on, a piece of hardware no longer working. I've experienced all of these things, on Linux, macOS, and Windows. I used to do all the updates all the time but was spending so much time fixing the things the updates broke that now once I've got a something stable and I'm relying on it for doing things it gets nothing but security updates. (This is why I don't use Windows and my mac is still on High Sierra).
Re: Irrational fear of upgrades?
"...it's not so much the ease or otherwise of upgrading. It's that I have a stable system I'm using to do useful work and then a major system upgrade breaks something...."
In all the iterations of Fedora I've used (as one of several distros in my various desktops), Fedora either makes everything work or nothing works when you update it. I've never had an issue where I got to the login screen and then something after that point didn't function properly, it's more of a thermonuclear situation where all of the sudden it fails to boot and I need to fiddle for a bit. It keeps a copy of the old version anyways so it's never a real hassle.
As far as my main system (PopOS!/Ubunutu) goes, I find that as long as you stay on the LTS releases that basically never happens.
Re: Irrational fear of upgrades?
"(This is why I don't use Windows and my mac is still on High Sierra)."
You mean it's not because your graphics card is not compatible with Metal? That is why my Mac ro is frozen on High Sierra forever...
The problem though is that “to fully defend a patent infringement case it usually costs about $10,000,000,” he said.
Its the reason why the only winners in these cases are the lawyers. The patent system is just broken in the US, and unless its fixed its just going to mean that independent developers will be driven out of business for fears of patent trolls coming after them and they will not have the fund to defend even when there is legitimate prior art.
"Its the reason why the only winners in these cases are the lawyers."
I'm of a firm belief that most frivolous and bs lawsuits in the US could be solved quicker if somebody just spent some time to get familiar with their pole-saw and made a few impromtptu late-night visits.
Certainly alarmed
“I'm certainly very pleased to see that Microsoft are moving more towards encouraging open source development... “
Really?
You don't say.
Well ...
I'm certainly very alarmed at your thinking that this is what is really happening.
Very much so, to the extent of thinking that maybe you've been living in a bubble for the last 20+ years.
From a post here at ElReg by AC (20180614) which sums it up nicely:
"Linux, Linux Foundation, R, Git, Atom/Electron, MariaDB, Python, Mozilla, RedHat, Debian, Gnome, KDE, ... are all being "disrupted" by M$. Their trojan horses infiltrate all important open source free software foundations and companies (EEE Nokia style). (M$ is a sponsor to all of these foundations! And Linux Foundation congratulated M$ for buying Github! WTF) ..."
I find it tragic that you do not or maybe just choose not to see it and then spew this utter BS.
O.
Re: Certainly alarmed
I'm no fan of MS, but you sound like a Japanese soldier still fighting WW2 in 1960. Linux, Git, Python, Debian - disrupted and infiltrated by MS simply because they've taken their money?
I'm inclined to simply say grow up, but instead I'll point out that IBM, Oracle etc. had business models that competed with Linux and open-source. Now they work with them, and - as a relative UNIX newbie of only 25 years - I think it's been a boon for Linux and open-source projects as a whole. I don't see why MS should be any different - they're a business, and - frankly - the business case for open-source at some levels is pretty undeniable.
Re: Certainly alarmed
... sound like a Japanese soldier still fighting WW2 in 1960 ...
MS declared war on Linux many years ago.
Steve Ballmer made it quite clear in an "interview" with the Chicago Sun-Times, 2001-06-01.
---
"Linux is a cancer that attaches itself in an intellectual property sense to everything it touches ..."
---
That war is still going on.
Their style is the same as it has always been: EEE / Embrace, Extend and Extinguish.
The approach has changed: is a friendlier so for quite a few it is harder to see.
As they go around throwing money about with a smile, everyone thinks MS Reborn , having seen the light, is now their long lost bro.
Bullshit for the great unwashed and gullible IT journalists.
As to growing up, I've already grown up.
At least enough to clearly understand just what is going on.
Instead of living in a fantasy.
O.
The main problem with making a mobile OS...
Is that Smartphones just last a few years and the hardware keeps changing while you can take a computer from ten years ago and revive it using Linux then use it for almost anything.