We're not getting back with Galileo, UK govt tells The Reg, as question marks sprout above its BS*
- Reference: 1600700421
- News link: https://www.theregister.co.uk/2020/09/21/no_galileo_uk/
- Source link:
As for whether it intends to spin up a UK-made satellite navigation system – one of the initiatives spewed out by former UK Prime Minister Theresa May's government – BEIS refused to respond to direct questions.
The idea that the UK might build its very own system first came about as May's ministers realised that Britain would be excluded from the Public Regulated Service (PRS) of the EU-funded Galileo constellation, and that UK industry would be barred from bidding on the lucrative contracts following its exit from the EU.
One does not simply repurpose an entire internet constellation for sat-nav, but UK might have a go anyway [1]READ MORE
The plan, [2]back in 2018 , was to spend £92m on a report into what was possible and what it might cost ahead of the billions needed to design, build and launch the Brexit Satellite (BS)* constellation.
That report has been [3]conspicuous by its absence , and over the summer [4]mutterings began to circulate that the idea had been ditched. Heck, this thing called "OneWeb" was up for sale, could the UK not simply snap it up and repurpose it? [5]Er, probably not .
[6]A report (lurking behind the Telegraph's paywall) over the weekend indicated that the BS had indeed been scrapped and sounded a hopeful note that maybe, just maybe, the UK might rejoin the Galileo project.
Such a move would make a great deal of sense; while UK companies [7]remain locked out of bidding for sensitive bits of Galileo (due to being a non-EU country), access to the PRS of the constellation would give Britain's military a bit of resilience and redundancy in addition to GPS.
Such access can be negotiated without a requirement to sign up to the EU.
In a response to a question from the Cabinet Office, Dr Bleddyn Bowen, a lecturer in International Relations and Space Policy at the University of Leicester, pointed out that having a backup made sense should the US GPS system suffer a wobble. He added: "The new US Position, Navigation, and Timing (PNT) Strategy effectively states that [8]GPS is not enough for guaranteeing PNT services to the US military in wartime."
Bowen told The Register : "If the UK can get user access to the PRS service of Galileo, it's good for British security and infrastructural resilience, good for European security, good for NATO, and good for the transatlantic alliance. This is a negotiation waiting to happen."
Earlier today, in response to a question from El Reg , a spokesperson for BEIS, summarised the situation bluntly: "The UK will not participate in the EU's Galileo programme."
The spokesperson also told us that: "The government has set a clear ambition for a sovereign space programme which will bring long-term strategic and commercial benefits for the UK. Work is ongoing across government to determine the UK's positioning, navigation and timing requirements, and assessing options for meeting them."
So that's that then.
And one's OneWeb?
As for the dream of maybe using [9]OneWeb as a Galileo replacement, the spokesperson told us: "Current OneWeb satellites are used to deliver satellite communications services, not satellite navigation."
We are returning-to-flight 🚀 with [10]@Arianespace & planning our next launch for December. Schedule will put us on track to deliver commercial services to regions including: U.K., Alaska, Northern Europe, Greenland, Iceland, the Arctic seas & Canada.🛰️Read: [11]https://t.co/H5xltaP7Hi [12]pic.twitter.com/BWZaITOeZe — OneWeb (@OneWeb) [13]September 21, 2020
While just over 70 satellites have been launched so far by OneWeb (and the company insists it will [14]return to flight this year ), hundreds more are needed to complete it as originally envisioned. Future satellites could potentially be updated to be more useful for navigation purposes, but the technology required (and frequencies involved) would be excessive and costly compared to negotiating for Galileo PRS access. Assuming, of course, one is thinking rationally about such things.
For now, the UK will continue to depend on the US GPS for PNT services. ®
* It probably wouldn't have been called this.
Get our [15]Tech Resources
[1] https://www.theregister.com/2020/06/30/oneweb_bs/
[2] https://www.theregister.com/2018/08/28/uk_may_go_it_alone_on_galileo/
[3] https://www.theregister.com/2020/03/02/brexit_satellite_delay/
[4] https://www.ft.com/content/50c3b6dc-2d2f-4bb4-aa9b-b24493315140
[5] https://www.theregister.com/2020/06/30/oneweb_bs/
[6] https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2020/09/19/uk-reset-sat-nav-plans-scrapping-work-5bn-galileo-rival/
[7] https://www.theregister.com/2018/03/26/uk_struck_off_galileo_project/
[8] https://www.gpsworld.com/us-department-of-defense-pnt-strategy-gps-is-not-enough/
[9] https://www.theregister.com/2020/07/03/uk_buys_oneweb/
[10] https://twitter.com/Arianespace?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
[11] https://t.co/H5xltaP7Hi
[12] https://t.co/BWZaITOeZe
[13] https://twitter.com/OneWeb/status/1308014987227664385?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
[14] https://twitter.com/OneWeb/status/1308014987227664385
[15] https://whitepapers.theregister.com/
Magnifico!
O_0_o_o....
Launching
I wonder where the government plans on launching these satellites from.
Re: Launching
Scolpaig?
https://www.theregister.com/2020/02/19/shetland_space_centre/
It says a lot about the UK government that it could distance itself from or drop altogether, the idea of BS.
As for finding its way around, there are plenty of consultants who would like to help.
So... the international consortium we pulled out of got it right, and we might well have to buy back into it, and there are few - if any - sensible alternatives that are as good as Galileo.
So, remind me... we're pulling out why? For "independence". That's like pulling out of your football career to play football "independently" of any team.
But our best idea that the entirety of our government could posit was to buy something with satellites in the name, even though they did not offer anything even remotely like the services we'd miss out on.
The GPS debacle pretty much is just a perfect mini-tableau of the entire Brexit saga.
The predictable view of remainers and those who believe that tails should wag dogs.
Presumably the "tail" here is the corrupt scumbags in Brussels, and the "dog" is the honest, hard-working people of Britain.
Which part of the dog is the corrupt scumbags in Westminster, and who's wagging it?
If an anonymous Cummings spokesbod has denied it, I'd expect us to be using Galileo very soon.
I can imagine the meeting before this idiocy took place . What do you mean "wrong type" of satellite?, no such thing. You can use a hammer as a screwdriver. Just make it work.
It's built using the Metric system. We demand Imperial measurements! We will pay in Groats.
Commerce and trading using "currency"? What is wrong with bartering, you unpatriotic globalist!!! ? Barter served our real native ancestors well, so we should go back to it.
Never tried that, but I have used a screwdriver as a hammer before
You are joking?
Assuming, of course, one is thinking rationally about such things.
Given the abilities & competence of the current cabinet - This'll never happen.
The problem is that anybody who is full possession of the facts about the EU (as opposed to the crap from the Daily Mail & other fellow travellers) who still supports Brexit is clearly incapable of thinking rationally, and under Johnson the only criteria for a cabinet post is an unwavering and blind belief in Brexit which has given us the current ship of fools in Westminster.
Re: You are joking?
I'm not sure that anyone is actually in full possession of the facts about the EU, it is far too complicated for that.
The most sensible reason for leaving was the intention for "an ever closer union", meaning financial and political union of Europe is the end destination, and the UK's wanting only to be in a free trade area, maintaining its political and financial independence. I cannot help feeling that the Brexit campaign was mostly about 'foreigners' and 'money' purely as a scare tactic to achieve a result, rather than have a sensible, rational debate about membership. David Cameron's 'deal', to persuade us Brits that the EU was really OK was frankly far too little to persuade anyone.
Theresa May's 'deal' whereby the UK would be bound by EU rules but have no say in them was clearly a non-starter (three times, in fact). Most people asked 'in what way is that leaving the EU?'
The confusion over the UK's sovereign satellite geo-positioning system is just par for the course for this administration.
(FYI, I voted remain, as I didn't think the politicians in Westminster were capable of negotiating a sensible exit agreement, or indeed organising a piss up in a brewery ... I fervently hope to be proved wrong.)
Re: You are joking?
The most sensible reason for leaving was the intention for "an ever closer union", meaning financial and political union of Europe is the end destination
For which there was no evidence except some scare stories in the Red Tops.
The most sensible reason for staying in was that we wouldn't get all the disadvantages of leaving.
Re: You are joking?
Speaking as a non-UKian that ever closer union was the main selling point of the EU.
The investment in oneweb has paid off...
See a tweet that clearly indicates we are no longer geographically close to northern europe.
Re: The investment in oneweb has paid off...
The UK is in Western Europe. It's about in the middle of the latitudes, and close to the western edge in longitudes.
A dumb question but... where does NATO fit into this?
A dumb question but where does NATO fit into this? If the US PNT report says GPS isn't good enough on its own for the US then presumably it isn't good enough for NATO either? And if Galileo is the answer - then won't the EU be asked/paid/persuaded to give access to NATO members?
Re: A dumb question but... where does NATO fit into this?
GPS II (the current version) is being replaced with GPS III which should give similar accuracy to Galileo for those allowed to access the M code. The timescales between GPS II reaching EOL and GPS III being operational is tighter than is comfortable! The PNT report if I remember correctly was looking at the impact of what would happen if GPS was not available and Galileo is one viable option for that and like the public channels of GPS, free. What isn't free is the PRS code but it is unlikely that PRS will ever be accessible by a non-European nation because of the rules that the UK insisted on
Hoots Mon
If iScotland rejoins the EU post Independence and is therefore able to join Galileo and our space sector able to bid for things will the rest of the UK freeload on our signals? Like the Non NHS English Test & Trace is clearly trying to freeload on Scotlands actual NHS Test & Trace system to the extent that we don’t know how many actual Scots residents have tested positive.
Such confusion is par for the course in Johnson’s UK which we need out of as soon as possible.
Reg readers who wish can of course come up here, help us vote Yes and enjoy EU residential rights, citizenship if you take out Scottish citizenship. Last time it was proposed to make everyone resident in Scotland on Independence Day citizens so come up here.
Re: Hoots Mon
Maybe if Scots who live in England were also allowed to cast a vote it would also help with independence?
"Assuming, of course, one is thinking rationally about such things"
If the UK government were thinking rationally, it would never have pushed to leave the EU.
So rational thought is not part of this process.
Hard Brexit
Membership in Galileo PRS may not require membership in the EU, but the acrimonious hard Brexit that is clearly the intended outcome of the sham negotiations (and proposed violation of the Withdrawal Agreement) will not incline the Europeans to let the UK in.
Re: Hard Brexit
AIUI membership requires membership of the EU. As members of the EU at the time the UK pushed for it.
Re: Hard Brexit
Britain is NOT heading towards a "hard" brexit. It's heading towards a crash out. A hard brexit is what Teresa May attempted to negotiate. A soft brexit was rejected by "our" politicians the moment the referendum result was declared.
Re: Hard Brexit
No, it does. That's a hard rule included at the insistence of one (former) EU member state.
The correct name is Gammonleo