Um, almost the entire Scots Wikipedia was written by someone with no idea of the language – 10,000s of articles
- Reference: 1598421966
- News link: https://www.theregister.co.uk/2020/08/26/scots_wikipedia_fake/
- Source link:
The user is not only a prolific contributor, they are an administrator of [1]sco.wikipedia.org , having created, modified or guided the vast majority of its pages in more than 200,000 edits. The result is tens of thousands of articles in English with occasional, and often ridiculous, letter changes – such as replacing a “y” with “ee.”
That’s right, someone doing a bad impression of a Scottish accent and then writing it down phonetically is the chief maintainer of the online encyclopedia's Scots edition. And although this has been carrying on for the best part of a decade, the world was mostly oblivious to it all – until today, when one Redditor finally had enough of reading terrible Scots and [2]decided to look behind the curtain .
“People embroiled in linguistic debates about Scots often use it as evidence that Scots isn’t a language, and if it was an accurate representation, they’d probably be right,” noted the Reddit sleuth, Ultach. “It uses almost no Scots vocabulary, what little it does use is usually incorrect, and the grammar always conforms to standard English, not Scots.”
While very nearly all Scottish people speak English, the [3]Scots language was apparently still spoken, read, or otherwise understood by [4]nearly 30 per cent of Scotland's population according to those responding to a 2011 census. The language got a memorable boost, too, when Scots-writing novelist Irvine Welsh's Trainspotting became a silver-screen sensation.
Ha! whaur ye gaun, ye crowlin ferlie?
The Scots Wikipedia, however, reads like the work of a tourist who attended a Burns Night, had one too many, and started channeling their imagined ancestors all over the internet while occasionally glancing at the Online Scots Dictionary in another browser tab.
Just two examples:
A veelage is a clustered human settlement or community, larger than a hamlet but smawer than a toun, wi a population rangin frae a few hunder tae a few thoosand (sometimes tens o thoosands).
In Greek meethology, the Minotaur wis a creatur wi the heid o a bull an the body o a man or, as describit bi Roman poet Ovid, a being "pairt man an pairt bull". The Minotaur wis eventually killed bi the Athenian hero Theseus.
The sheer size and scope is something to behold: look at virtually any of the 57,000-plus pages and you’ll find a nonsensical mishmash of English and Scots. Ultach spent some time going through the articles, and reached a conclusion: the editor's just doing a copy-paste job from the English edition with words they think are Scots equivalents searched'n'replaced.
A Song of Iceland Fire: Scotland's Skyrora launches Skylark Micro rocket from volcanic viking outpost [5]READ MORE
“They do use some elements of Scots that would require a look up, they just use them completely incorrectly. For example, they consistently translate “also” as “an aw” in every context. So, Charles V would be ‘king o the Holy Roman Empire and an aw Spain [sic]’, and ‘Pascal an aw wrote in defence o the scienteefic method [sic]’. I think they did this because when you type ‘also’ into the Online Scots Dictionary, ‘an aw’ is the first thing that comes up.”
It’s not clear whether the Wikipedian has spent the past near-decade creating thousands of fake posts as some kind of incredible practical joke, or that they honestly felt they were doing a good job. There have been occasional interactions with real Scottish folk taking exception to pages, and the administrator has responded in a dead-pan fashion.
Amazingly, the dreadful quality of the Scots-language version was the focus on an [6]article five years ago when Slate noted that “at first glance, the Scots Wikipedia page reads like a transcription of a person with a Scottish accent,” while covering a request to Wikipedia that the entire sco.wikipedia.org archive be deleted.
You’re all bum and parsley
“Joke project. Funny for a few minutes, but inappropriate use of resources,” [7]argued the proposer for its deletion, before they were attacked by angry Wikipedians who pointed out it was a “real language, lots of people who speak it,” and, they noted, there was “decent activity” on the pages. Decent, it turns out, because it was all being made up by someone who can’t speak a word of Scots. “Proposer should educate him/herself in linguistic diversity,” the Wikipedia collective sniffly concluded.
But while it is extremely funny on one level that an entire arm of the web encyclopedia comprises phony lingo, there is a potentially serious impact.
“This is going to sound incredibly hyperbolic and hysterical,” noted Ultach, “but I think this person has possibly done more damage to the Scots language than anyone else in history. They engaged in cultural vandalism on a hitherto unprecedented scale.
Wikipedia is one of the most visited websites in the world. Potentially tens of millions of people now think that Scots is a horribly mangled rendering of English
"Wikipedia is one of the most visited websites in the world. Potentially tens of millions of people now think that Scots is a horribly mangled rendering of English rather than being a language or dialect of its own, all because they were exposed to a mangled rendering of English being called Scots by this person and by this person alone.”
That view was backed up by the chief scientist at text analytics company Luminoso, Robyn Speer, who noted that several large language detectors use Scots Wikipedia as a reference.
“I believe that the cld2, cld3, and fastText language detectors all have Scots (sco) as one of the languages they claim to detect, and all of them are getting their belief about what Scots is from Wikipedia,” she [8]noted .
In other words, fake Scots language is rapidly becoming real Scots online. And all because of a prolific apparent non-Scot. The jig may be up though: the administrator’s talk page has been taken over by some extremely non-plused folk: “Please stop before you cause anymore harm. Embarrassing,” says one.
Another: “Scots is not just English spelled differently. Even if well intended this is basically cultural vandalism and contributes to misunderstanding and claims that Scots isn't a language of its own. All these contributions should be taken down or edited by someone who can actually speak the Scots dialect, this is incredibly damaging.”
And if you think those comments are surprisingly polite, that’s almost certainly because Scotland was asleep when the news broke. Just wait when the Weegies wake up. ®
Bootnote
As we were about to publish this article, we saw that Ultach updated their Reddit dossier to note: "I've been told that the editor I've written about has received some harassment for what they've done. This should go without saying but I don't condone this at all. They screwed up and I'm sure they know that by now.
"They seem like a nice enough person who made a mistake when they were a young child, a mistake which nobody ever bothered to correct, so it's hardly their fault. They're clearly very passionate and dedicated, and with any luck maybe they can use this as an opportunity to learn the language properly and make a positive contribution. If you're reading this I hope you're doing alright and that you're not taking it too personally."
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[1] https://sco.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page
[2] https://www.reddit.com/r/Scotland/comments/ig9jia/ive_discovered_that_almost_every_single_article/
[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scots_language
[4] https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/scots-language
[5] https://www.theregister.com/2020/08/18/skyrora_skylark_micro/
[6] https://slate.com/human-interest/2014/08/despite-disputes-over-whether-scots-is-separate-language-or-dialect-of-english-scots-wikipedia-showcases-vibrant-speaker-and-editor-community.html
[7] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Proposals_for_closing_projects/Closure_of_Scots_Wikipedia
[8] https://twitter.com/r_speer/status/1298297873977745415
[9] https://whitepapers.theregister.com/
Any other shit cliches you want to wheel out while you're logged in? Maybe something about haggis or ..
Fuck it, let's use your dunderhead comment to make Scot/IT puns,
Hadrian's Firewall
Jings!
Don't mess with Hard Ian"s wall.
Thank you for once again proving PG Wodehouse's dictum about it never being difficult to tell the difference between a ray of sunshine and a Scotsman with a grievance.
"Brothers and sisters are natural enemies! Like Englishmen and Scots! Or Welshmen and Scots! Or Japanese and Scots! Or Scots and other Scots! Damn Scots! They ruined Scotland!"
"Ach ay tha noo"
It's "och aye the noo", at least spell it right.
And while it may be a cliché, I live in Scotland and will swear upon a stack of technical manuals that I have heard a genuine Scottish person say it. Although to be fair, I suspect they may have been making friends with the whisky bottle shortly before.
Send them to Scotland for a few years...
Make them learn from folks that actualy live there & speak it natively.
Make them rewrite all the pages into proper Scot & run it past the Scot equiv of an English Teacher for grammar, punctuation, etc until they can earn a passing grade.
Once the pages have been rewritten properly, make the little bugger post a public preface page to the entire Scots wiki section admitting what they did, why they did it, what they did to correct it, and begging the forgiveness of all Scots everywhere that would otherwise like to use him for arse-kicking practice.
I don't buy the "they were just a kid & doing stupid kid stuff" angle, not for 50K pages worth of such shite. One or two *maybe*, but 50K worth? (A big red X with the EENNGG "wrong answer" buzzer.))
Re: Send them to Scotland for a few years...
Make them rewrite all the pages into proper Scot & run it past the Scot equiv of an English Teacher for grammar, punctuation, etc until they can earn a passing grade.
That's hardly in the spirit of Wikipedia, even being "peer-reviewed" isn't exactly its strong point.
Wee radge bastard
Aye right, thit bonny wee bampot's nae good tae the rest ay us.
Re: Wee radge bastard
Just checked, and "radge" is actually in it, in a (very short) list of Scottish slang.
But bampot isn't, nor are other words which of course came to me at random, such as numpty, bawbag and heidbanger.
To use a word from my part of Scotland, it's a complete boorach.
Re: Wee radge bastard
I feel a staiheid rammy coming on about this
Re: Wee radge bastard
Some glaikit bampot numpty is gonnae get ma baffies rammed right up his keekie winker
Re: Wee radge bastard
Is numpty a Scots word then?
The first time I ever heard it was 20 years ago as an expat in Belgium. From someone from Gloucestershire - who told me it was a local word. I hear it quite a lot nowadays, so it's either become more popular or I used to be "numpty-blind".
Re: Wee radge bastard
Wee hake round the internet seems to give a skiffy that it's of Scots origin.
However, please feel free to use this word and any others.
I don't think Scots are generally very precious about our national things. I think we like to see other nationalities try out kilts etc. They usually start out thinking they're putting on a skirt and doing drag then they feel the masculinity bubbling through the tartan and usually end up really enjoying it.
Re: Wee radge bastard
I'm happy to borrow a few Scots words. Isn't the joke about english that:
"The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don’t just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary."
And I'm certainly extremely enthusiastic about culturally appropriating whisky, on as regular a basis as possible. Except for Caol Ila - which is so ridiculously peaty that it should be used for growing plants in.
But I'd appreciate it if you'd be a bit less generous about sharing your shortbread. And maybe keep all of that North of the border. Also my friend seems to have found an infinite stock of a Christmas themed ginger flavoured Irn Bru, which I regard as something suspiciously close to chemical warfare - did Barr's ever sell the vile stuff in Scotland, or is it a vast practical joke on the english?
Re: Wee radge bastard
Is toil leam IRN BRU (that's actually Gaelic, not Scots, and is taken from the Duolingo course)
Yes, Irn Bru is sold in Scotland, and is made in Scotland - fra' girders!
Yes, it's a foul chemical concoction, but it's the only thing to drink with your haggis pudding supper after an evening on the bevvy. It helps to cut through the oil and fat.
Ah, happy memories. Actually I used to sometimes have it with my steak pie supper - the chippie used to deep-fry the pies. Obese? Moi?
Re: Wee radge bastard
It's not the normal Irn Bru I'm objecting to. It's this ginger abomination. Or, [1]Chrimbo Juice as Barr's called it.
[1] https://www.agbarr.co.uk/about-us/news/irn-bru-crimbo-juice/
Re: Wee radge bastard
Is that the spicy IRN BRU, I did like that, I was disappointed they discontinued it.
IRN BRU ius just one step down from injecting sugar directly into your veins.
Re: Wee radge bastard
It's not the normal Irn Bru I'm objecting to.
Well, there's something not right there!
I hate the stuff. I imagine it's what concentrated Lucozade with a couple of kilo of sugar and a shot of Cillit Bang added would taste like.
But Haggis - I love it.
someone wrote themselves a macro?
And now the Scottish section can't be deleted because that would be attacking Whackypedia itself.
bawbag.
International Recognition
When I was younger I thought it strange that the UK didn't recognise Scots as a language when it was recognised internationally.
It was also thrashed out of schoolkids as English had to be used or the tawse came out. I well remember the pain. One particular sadist in my school made sure your hands were a couple of inches above his desk when he struck head-on rather than from the side, making sure your knuckles were bleeding as well as stripping the skin from your wrist.
The older I have become, the more I realise that the difference between a dialect and a language is mainly about power and politics.
Re: International Recognition
Why were you downvoted, as the quote goes, " [1]a language is a dialect with an army and navy " (I've linked to Whackypedia for ironic effect).
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_language_is_a_dialect_with_an_army_and_navy
Re: International Recognition
mainly about power and politics
Indeed, but it does work both ways. Suppression of languages is one side of the coin, but the other is promotion of languages that have outlived their usefulness to construct a politically-useful "identity".
Re: International Recognition
Cornish?
Re: International Recognition
No, I think he was talking about cockney.
(Me ol' china)
Re: International Recognition
> outlived their usefulness to construct a politically-useful "identity"
Yes, that is essentially what the Prussians, Russians and Austrians said about my native language in the late XVIII and XIX centuries, as they were reacting to various independence movements. I'm sure it was also said about the languages of many Native peoples' subjugated by various flavors of Anglosaxons.
Curb your cultural imperialism, mate.
Re: International Recognition
I'm sure it was also said about the languages of many Native peoples' subjugated by various flavors of Anglosaxons.
True, but I recall being inflicted with certain Northern Irish Politicians attempting to speak Irish.
As to street signs and other language demands - you don't see Trekkies demand that Klingon also be added...
Re: International Recognition
Language is indeed power and politics... but it's also so much more. When you think and form ideas, language helps structure those ideas. If a language has a particular concept then it's easier to form and communicate new ideas around that concept. I fear that as we lose languages, we lose those concepts that are unique to the cultures that spawned them.
I'm a big fan of Scots, it's more lyrical than English and allows for terse, humorous exchanges that lose their bite if done in English.
Re: International Recognition
Or does your language define what you can think?
Re: Language and thought
English (oldspeak) allows oldthink and crimethink. Twitter speedwise makes oldspeak simple ready for change to newspeak. Doubleplusgood Thinkpol review all tweets so Miniluv can send crimethinkers to joycamp. Soon world fullwise duckspeak.
Re: International Recognition
This is doubly true in France, where the state has traditionally had an almost homicidal disdain for regional dialects. You can still find old signs from schoolyards in Brittany saying 'It is forbidden to spit on the ground or speak Breton' or 'Speak French, be clean'.
Re: International Recognition
Scots is a language. But this is complicated because there is a continuum of language here, between Scots and English. At one end there is English with a Scots accent and a few odd local words (much like the Wiki) - clearly just a dialect, easily intelligible to speakers of standard English, and this progresses steadily with different people as more vocabulary changes and, importantly, the grammar starts to change, until you have true Scots, whether Doric or whatever. This doesn't seem to happen so much with other languages (although I could be wrong) - is there a smooth continuum of speakers between Dutch and German? It could be argued that it happens to an extent in Wales - with full blown 'Wenglish' taking the place of Scots. There's a lot of English in it, but there is a lot of Welsh grammar and vocab which takes it away from just being an English dialect.
If you want to know more about the Scots leid, go to oorvyce.scot or follow them on @oorvyce
And try this as a starter
"Whit wye shuid we be carin aboot Scots?
Scots is a leid thit is integratit intae Scots cultur, is pairt o wir identity, an is whit maks oorsels different fae the rest o the warld. A wheen o fowk hae an attatchment tae the leid fae bairnheid an their hames wi'oot even kennin it. Scots has ayewis hid spikkers at aa livvels o society, fae aa backgruns an fae aa waaks o life."
Re: International Recognition
Don't get me started on the treatment of Welsh by the powers-that-be...
But it survived - nearly a third of the population speak it today, and that's growing.
Interesting that support for Welsh independence is growing fast - now at 32% (but compare that to 55% in Scotland). Even 49% in England think England should be independent - but they may have mixed the question up with Brexit!
Enough
Aren't Gaelic and the Queens English enough for you, that you want to include your local dialect as a language?
How about the Gordie language, or Scouce language, or Esturine Essex (far too pervasive) as a language?
Re: Enough
Innit bruv
Re: Enough
So like, basically the thing is.... [enough]
Re: Enough
Know what I mean?
Re: Enough
I've always considered Scots and English as dialects of Geordie. They even have an army.
Re: Enough
Hhmm, the Scots are the only ones on this island with nuclear weapons so that would make Geordie, English, Essex, Welsch and Scouse dialects of Scots.
Re: Enough
To misquote the great Renton, the Scots are colonised by effete wankers. And it's the effete wankers who have the nuclear weapons.
(I speak as a Welsh bird who struggles to pronounce her double-Ls)
Re: Enough
But "aderyn" doesn't have a ll in...
Re: Enough
Hhmm, the Scots are the only ones on this island with nuclear weapons so that would make Geordie, English, Essex, Welsch and Scouse dialects of Scots.
But the Geordies are hard as nails, so they don't need nuclear weapons.
Re: Enough
If someone nukes Newcastle, they'll just put another t-shirt on, and be fine...
Re: Enough
Interesting mis-spelling of 'Welsh' as Welsch - because of course 'Welsh' is derived from a Germanic word used by the Saxon economic migrants who came to Britain a while back. It basically means 'foreigners'. I believe Wallonia comes from the same root, as does the district of Wels in Austria, Valais, Wallachia etc. And the '-wall' in Cornwall.
That's why more and more of use insist on using the proper name 'Cymru' for our country, and Cymraeg for our language. Hopefully it will catch on in England as well.
Re: Enough
Gordie? Scouce? Some people can't spell.
The future of the Scots language is safe
I've even heard it spoken on that drama set in the 2260s... Um.. Tar Dreck?
Ach ay tha noo