Class move, Java. Coding language slips to third place behind Python in latest popularity contest
- Reference: 1595919844
- News link: https://www.theregister.co.uk/2020/07/28/java_slippage_leaves_python_gripping/
- Source link:
Python usage, as measured by GitHub pull requests and Stack Overflow queries, remained flat over the past six months while the presence of Java code slipped from second place to third. Yes, JavaScript remains first.
"Ironically, the most notable 'winner' in this quarter’s rankings is Python, which did not move at all," wrote Stephen O'Grady, co-founder of the Redmonk consultancy, in a [1]blog post on Monday. "But in assuming sole control of the number two spot in our rankings, Python is the first non-Java or JavaScript language ever to place in the top two of these rankings by itself, and would not have been the obvious choice for that distinction in years past."
When last Redmonk published its programming popularity measurements [2]in March , Python and Java were tied for second place behind JavaScript, which remains the overall leader.
O'Grady goes to great lengths to urge people not to read too much into these figures, noting that Redmonk's rankings, which began in 2012, are simply a look at data correlations between GitHub and Stack Overflow.
While stressing that Java use remains widespread, he allows that competition among programming languages is fierce and that Java's prominence among enterprises will continue for years though isn't guaranteed. He suggests that it's worth paying attention to Java in the coming quarters to determine whether its decline is a statistical blip or an indicator of gradually dwindling prospects.
Redmonk's Top 20 as of July are:
JavaScript
Python
Java
PHP
C++
C#
Ruby
CSS
TypeScript
C
Swift
Objective-C
R
Scala
Go
Shell
PowerShell
Perl
Kotlin
Rust
This particular sampling of languages doesn't show a lot of movement – the positions of Kotlin, Dart, TypeScript, and Julia, trendy languages all, remain unchanged.
One that did advance was Rust, which moved into the top 20 for the first time. Five years ago, it was at position 48.
"Its focus on the construction of secure applications is of particular and growing importance, and contributes to Rust’s usage in more and more high profile projects," said O'Grady.
For the past five years, Rust has been the most beloved programming language in Stack Overflow's annual survey and given the role of Stack Overflow data in Redmonk's rankings, it's not surprising to see the language doing well. Rust looks like it will play a more prominent role on the [3]edges of Linux kernel development , in innovative projects like [4]Deno , and at companies [5]like Microsoft .
At the same time, O'Grady expects that Rust, like Go, won't rise much beyond the mid-teens in ranking because of its systems-level focus and complexity relative to more accessible languages.
Another programming language comparison, the [6]Tiobe Index , puts C at the top for July, followed by Java and Python. Tiobe's measurement also suggests that Java popularity has declined since July 2019 when it held the number one spot.
The Tiobe Index shows a surprising surge by the statistics-oriented R programming language – possibly attributable to COVID-19-related data science – and upticks for Rust, Kotlin, and Delphi/Object Pascal. ®
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[1] https://redmonk.com/sogrady/2020/07/27/language-rankings-6-20/
[2] https://www.theregister.com/2020/03/02/redmonk_programming_languages/
[3] https://www.theregister.com/2020/07/13/rust_code_in_linux_kernel/
[4] https://www.theregister.com/2020/05/14/nodejs_creator_deno_10/
[5] https://www.theregister.com/2020/07/07/project_freta/
[6] https://www.tiobe.com/tiobe-index/
[7] https://whitepapers.theregister.com/
I Wonder...
How many of the Python activities recorded are just people playing about with Raspberry Pi's? I know I've contributed to the statistics while writing software to control my model railways.
Re: I Wonder...
Still counts.
I often knock out quick algorithm prototypes then translate it to context, but that means that at least one Python interpreter has been installed on every machine I've used.
The same cannot be said of Java anymore.
And Java tools can be a pain due to JRE constraints.
Re: I Wonder...
People playing about with Raspberry Pis are not doing that many GitHub pull requests. They tend to have their own forums too and not so much stackoverflow contributors as much as lookups users.
I wonder if adding Java and Kotlin together would put Java back in second place.
Kotlin isn't Java though. It was initially created to run on a JVM and interact with Java but it's outgrown that purpose and can also compile to mobile and natively where "native" means via LLVM to various backends.
I think its popularity has increased because Google promote it for Android development and of course Android Studio (Jetbrains) ensures it has good IDE support. Google were getting fed up being tied to Java 7 and the never-ending lawsuit against Oracle. For devs, it's a terse language similar to Swift, Go and Rust so it means typing less boiler plate.
TIOBE Index
Don't know if it's just a case of confirmation bias, but after looking into this TIOBE index for the first time, it sure feels more "right" to me, especially their "Very Long Term History" table, than the (laughable?) results compiled by looking at GitHub pulls.
Especially since more and more FOSS seem to use GitHub as a software delivery platform as well as a source code management system
Re: TIOBE Index
Agreed. I would suggest the only thing counting github pulls is good for is... counting github pulls. In fact I can't think of any reliable method of assessing coding language popularity. How do you count establishments that have their own in-house teams working on their completely closed systems? What about all the hobbyist Arduino users? Does its subset of C++ count, or is it a 'different' language?
Re: TIOBE Index
There isn't any reliable way to look behind closed doors.
Thus there will always biases towards older tools when looking at job ads (companies maintaining teams for internal systems where existing staff are more interesting in transitioning to newer tools) and the newest (expanding expertise on those newer tools).
Looking at open source will have its own biases.
But then other surveys – eg. Micro Focus saying how much COBOL has been written but nothing about how much is being written – all have their own problems.
Just
Makes me want to cry.
Questionable statistics?
I'm always very dubious about these statistical reports drawn from unavoidably self-selected sources. For validity, it should be qualified by " among those submitting to github or posting on stack overflow... ". Both represent a very small sample of the entire population of software development, quite apart from which the two are not comparable. Github primarily represents professional grade open source development, but stack overflow is primarily populated by often quite elementary questions from relatively inexperienced coders, and answers thereto from similar responders. There is of course also the question of the development target. Online and cloud development is typically performed using different languages than native application development. The first four entries in this list strongly suggest a web development bias.
A parallel survey of languages used internally by closed source development houses for mainstream products would be an interesting comparison.
Stack Overflow versus Github?
There are a number of languages which moved down and right when flipping between the Q1 and Q3 graphs, i.e. they declined in Stack Overflow and increased in Github rank. So maybe rather than a story of no movement in overall rank, there is a story regarding Stack Overflow versus Github. Possibly these languages have other support communities which makes Stack Overflow less important to their users?
Thats no Python, Thats a grass snake, never written a program in "grass snake" before