News: 1593500048

Seriously. I understand that domain registration is something you should lose unless you pay for it; but when I forget to pay my rent in time, I'm not kicked out the next second. And changing flats would be arguably much less disruptive for me than changing domain names for some businesses.

Of course, it's easy to laugh and point the finger at the morons who forgot to renew their registration, but this is even a security issue — users trust that the website with that address is the same as the one from yesterday. Maybe it's time to introduce some mandatory protections?

You get enough reminders. Only utter incompetence could be the reason. It is no good trying to protect idiots; they get even more careless and then create an even greater idiocy.

You mean like repeated emails to the postmaster address, a grace period during which only the owner can renew it even if it goes offline, and an appeal process?

This only happens when people are not just incompetent but government-department-incompetent - signing up with an employee email who leaves, or literally never checking the postmaster mailbox, and not having anything as simple as a calendar entry which would warn the appropriate technical staff.

Don't forget - someone, somewhere is running a server with that content on. Was that still being paid for? Was it hosted in-house? Or was it terminated as part of the same contract as the domain? Who was responsible for it? Who was maintaining it? Who was updating it? Which datacentre did it reside on? Why did they not notice when the domain went into a grace period? Nothing even as simple as one of those free "is your website still working today" automated tests? Were they still paying for it on the server end?

Sorry, but if this happens to you, then you necessarily should not be running Internet-facing servers, especially for government services. It's a symptom of a complete lack of maintenance and interest.

And, more importantly, who authorised the .org.uk in the first place when they could have had a .gov.uk that could not possibly expire? Why was it anything but a redirect for all those years? Why did the *real* gov.uk site not get anywhere near as many links as the original .org.uk for all those years?

It goes far beyond "we need a way for people running small businesses to renew their domain at the scheduled time", and no scenario like that would fix it.

As far as I'm aware, one month after expiry, .org.uk domains will go offline for two months before they are released and can be bought by someone else. At any point during that three month period they can be renewed by the original owner.

If I'm right and if that process was followed, then the website would have been down for two months. And nobody noticed?

The redirect would have been down for two months. The website (.gov) was still working normally.

Christ Almighty don't get me started on fucking managers refusing to use their .gov.uk addresses.

They all want their own "identity" or "branding" for their little bit away from the core organisation. So they buy up shittle little domains using departmental budgets deliberately avoiding proper process. they they will normally have a shite website knocked up by a school leaver (who charges about £20k over the going rate but talks a good game), with no on going maintenance using out of support WordPress.

Domain abandonment is alos a big issues with these shittly little unauthorised websites.

They they get fucking uppity when I find out about it and tell them to get it fucking fixed or gone.

Yep, same battle here and all over the country I expect. The domain name is normally about 40 Chars long and they'll have also bought a load of other TLDs to go with; .co.uk,.com, .net, .org, .org.uk, .uk, .info (because cyber-squatting and brand protection) all under a personal domain registration, on a PCard and used those domains in printed PDFs and advertising material - thus proving how we 100% can't let these domains go.

We are winning but it's a game of whack-a-mole trying to keep on top of this type of domain/website procurement - I feel your pain!

Yes - much much better to put all useful information into a single bland repository dumbed down to the intellectual capacity of a Govt Minister Then you can expunge the useful bits because they don't fit the one size fits all template (or the embarrassing bits). Because any suggestion that an entity of the government should have pride, or esprit de corps is clearly to be stomped down on, and history is for losers (and a few beloved statues).

Just because .gov.uk works well for strictly transactional 'citizen as customer' bureaucracy doesn't mean that everything has to be the same. it's slightly weird that this ultra-centralised 'any type of car you like citizen, as long as it's a white 4 door Lada' control of the web has been foisted on us by avowed espousers of the 'free- market'.

It's just an SLD, not important and not a reason for a call to arms.

They they get fucking uppity when I find out about it and tell them to get it fucking fixed or gone.

You are Malcolm Tucker and I claim my five pounds.

And, more importantly, who authorised the .org.uk in the first place when they could have had a .gov.uk that could not possibly expire? Why was it anything but a redirect for all those years? Why did the *real* gov.uk site not get anywhere near as many links as the original .org.uk for all those years?

An imagined discussion at HelpToBuy a number of years ago.

Tech: The gov.uk people say that they haven't heard of us as a government department, and want a letter signed by the minister for the department of administrative affairs confirming that our department exists. When they have that then they'll ask if anybody in whitehall objects to this name being taken in case it clashes with any project that somebody else has. There is then a mandatory 30 day wait for responses, 15 days to compile a report for the allocation committee, and then at the next names allocation committee meeting then they'll review the request and decide if they will deign to create us a .gov.uk domain name. At that point, the request and proposed address will be passed on to the head of the civil service, and the PM to approve, and then following Royal consent being granted the allocation committee will pass it along to the creation department.

Boss: The PM said we'd be up and running by the end of next week. I told him we'd do that. You said it could be done easily. Why are you now telling me it's not going to be ready for what, six months?

Tech: It takes five minutes to set up a domain name. I didn't imagine that it could possibly take this long to get a gov.uk domain name!

Boss: So, we've got the site ready on HelpToBuy.example.com, but we can't just get a gov.uk domain name?

Tech: Yes! We'd be up and running in 20 minutes if we were using an org.uk domain name! Dealing with this...

Boss: Ok. I promised the PM personally that we'd be up in time and i'm not going back and telling him I can't do it. Pick that domain name, get it printed on all of our stationary and we'll use that. When we get a gov.uk domain name then we can shift the site to the that, right?

Tech: That'd work.

---

11 Months later

- - - -

Boss: We finally got that gov.uk domain name. It comes with government hosting too; switch over to that, would you.

Tech: Hang on, this only supports static .html and coldfusion on an Oracle database? That's insane! It's...

Boss: Do you have any asprin?

Tech: *Hands over bottle* We could just redirect the gov.uk domain to the working site?

15 years later, that tech and boss has moved on and the postmaster checking the "left staff" emails sees the email and forwards it to the domain renewals team. It's not on the approved list to renew, so doesn't get renewed because it's not anybodies job to do it

And that's how something like this happens.

That-does-sound-like-the-local-authority- bureaucratic -stuff-I-came-across.

Especially the last part.

Fair play to them. Someone might as well benefit from the ineptitude that engulfs these government departments.

Because the people of the UK certainly don't!

I've just registered oximoron.org and am offering it as the new domain for 'affordable housing'.

Its not even 9, and you've already won the Internet for today.

The rest can stop playing and try again tomorrow

Aw. I wanted to use it for 'government intelligence'. You beat me to it.

Very good, but it's actually spelled 'oxymoron'.

That was already taken ;-)

But because they probably can't spell as well as think, they'll probably try and register oxymoron, oxymoron, oxymoron & oxymoron just to be on the safe side - ka-ching!!

...and some senior management grade needs a calendar populated with 'things to check have been done because part of my job is preventing cock ups'.

But, you know, that would require managers that understood the organisation they're running.

Not necessarily a junior, maybe the process.

On assignment in a senior management role, I was asked to buy a digital certificate for a government department personally using my own credit card and then get a refund on expenses. They had no formal mechanism for this.

So, UK Gov has a list of addresses that cannot be resold even when expired. They set up that list when .gov.uk came about, transferred all their .org addresses to .gov and promptly forgot everything .org.

Are there any other .org.uk addresses that are still in use by the the government that could also be snapped up like that ? Or is some busybody finally going to get the order to sort the situation out yesterday ?

That is the problem with the administrative mentality. When transferring to .gov.uk, somebody should have made it clear that the "old" .org.uk addresses needed protecting as well. Maybe somebody even did, but the order came down from On High : .gov.uk addresses are to be protected, no mention of .org.uk so, no protection for the latter.

And now this happens.

Incidentally, the fact that the guy who got it for £10 turned around to sell it for much more, that used to be called something nasty, didn't it ? And the original owner could complain about it and get it back for manifest domain name squatting or something. Yes, it had expired, but the operation was clearly not with the intention of using the domain, just selling it for (tidy) profit. Doesn't the government (as negligent previous owner) have a say about that ?

And I'd say probably not only governmental bureaucracies.

But but the order came down from On High : .gov.uk addresses are to be protected, no mention of .org.uk so, no protection for the latter is a class of thinking. Off with the old, on with the new.

It explains many phenomena.All aspects of losing continuity with what went on before because it's not part of the new shiny.

When, in the 70s, we decimalised our currency the word "shilling" (5p) was eliminated. It could have been retained, but there was a deliberate effort to stop using it- it wasn't part of the new thinking, but it could have been and a whole generation would have been more comfortable with the new currency. It's just a name for 5p after all. It could have been left to wither naturally.

Most of the shenanigans with Windows Start menu over the last few years seem likewise to be a way of burying the Win 7 designs that were abandoned with the fucking horrible Windows 8 layout, rather than having any practical use that helps people do stuff .