News: 1591605008

Smart fridge, app tells you what's in the fridge - or, just open the door.

Smart washing machine - just set the timer?

So far, in my life - I haven't seen the need for for any of these devices that seem to solve a problem that didn't exist in the first place.

I have a huge Hisense fridge, no freezer on it as I prefer that separate, it has a little LED display for temperature and it keeps everything cold, seems pretty smart to me.

Short of a robo-butler anything else in the house will not be smart and anyone who needs to tweet while stocking their freezer needs to get a life.

But don't you want your fridge to email you saying "Kid drank last the milk, pick up milk on the way home"? /s

The only "smart" in my refrigeration systems are the thought that I put into it. As a result, most of it is handled by True, Delfield & Traulsen. I expect it all to out-live my Granddaughter's kids (should she ever choose to have any, of course).

Consumer grade appliances are trash, with no longevity and (usually) no repair options[0]. Adding Internet access to it only makes it connected trash. I'd rather spend a lot of money once than a little bit of money many times (and each time losing the contents of my freezer ... ).

[0] Here in California, it is illegal to replace a part of the consumer grade refrigerant system. You have to remove it and replace it as a complete, sealed unit. That's right ... The compressor, evaporator, condensor, expansion valve, and every other piece that has refrigerant in it can only be replaced as a complete sealed unit. This means that once the compressor dies, it's cheaper to throw it away and buy a new fridge, even though a new compressor can usually be purchased for around a hundred bucks ... How "smart" is your new fridge now, consumer?

Consumer grade appliances are trash, with no longevity and (usually) no repair options[0].

Ahem ... NO That's not my experience at all. Washer, Drier, Refrigerator, Oven, Mixer, Food Processor, Dishwasher. Even the Microwave Oven. All repairable and all have parts available either from the manufacturer or from third parties. I was even able to buy and installed an icemaker in the fridge which my wife for some reason bought without one.

I would agree that connected digital devices offer manufacturers an opportunity to apply our appallingly low standards of software quality to our household appliances. I personally think that -- like much else in our world -- is a really silly idea.

It's a refrigerator. It keeps things cold. Why would it need a network connection?

"Consumer grade appliances are trash, with no longevity and (usually) no repair options'

Had no problems replacing seals and brushes on my cheap Beko washing machine over 15 years.

Dishwasher, just needed a pipe removing, clearing out and replacing. 15 minutes

Fridge, needed a new handle and shelf. No problem.

Yes you can't replace refrigeration units, but that's often because of the chemicals in them. But as most tend to last 10+ years it's hardly the end of the world. In fact it's probably harder to get a spare than just replace.

Can be used for other things too (probably cant tell you what you have inside).

Would be used for browsing, or if its not general purpose, connecting you to a database with recipes.

But would be easier, probably cheaper, better support, better quality software, to just by an iPad or similar and have that on the counter top.

'Smart' devices in their current form are useless, they are also useless for our current work flows in the world.

'Smart' devices should connect to your meter, so you can use power (for devices that don't need to run all the time) at the cheapest time (But will cause them to run at night, while you are sleeping, against recommendations). Fridges, would order what you need to your meals for the week after you have set the menu for the week.

But here is the problem, it doesn't need to be the fridge that does that. but if it was, it would need to monitor everything going in and out of the fridge and how that affects your planed meals.

So in summary, its all bollocks.

I have a wine cooler. It has a temperature gauge, a big glass door and can hold 40 bottles of wine, so the only thing "smart" that it has to do is to keep the wine chilled.

I might consider such - but it would have to be refilled too often.

Same here - I've been trying to establish a "cellar" for many years now, without success...

Good forward planning and a local Majestic manager who is so impressed at the rate of consumption that they deliver next day, even in the current crisis.

Indeed. Is it perhaps a case of smart goods needing dumb customers?

The problem that it fixes is that the company mistakenly makes a fridge that works perfectly for 40 years. By attaching it to the internet they can make it obsolete and force you to buy a new one after any period they choose. Even better, they could also refuse to allow the software to be transferred to a new owner should you try to sell the fridge - like Tesla allegedly do with Autopilot - thereby ending the second-hand market too.

The option to buy unconnected stuff will disappear in a few years time and, unless the law is changed, we'll all be "upgrading" cars and most electrical goods as frequently as we do our phones. Welcome to the world of jailbroken toasters.

"Smart" TVs are one example where in principle there's a real reason for connectivity, but in practice it just adds obsolence.

Apps stop working as video content providers switch to new codecs (e.g. Youtube stopped working on our earlier Samsung smart TV) or the apps become so bloated and so slow they're unusable (looking at you iPlayer)

Clearly the answer is a disposable Roku or similar, together with as dumb a TV as possible.

If you really must have Twitter on your fridge door, an iPad mount for your fridge can be had for about £15, and an iPad will cost £350 for the cheapest model. Less than half the extra cost to get a smart fridge, and it will work a lot better.

A device must be supported for it's service life - and that's not how long the manufacturer says it will last - for example, my non-smart fridge-freezer is something like 20 years old.

I guess and easy way to define how long support is needed would be to say it must not end whilst any devices are hitting the update server to check for updates.

Absolutely agree. If you want to sell me a smart fridge, you had better have in writing that you're going to support all of its functionalities until the fridge dies.

If I don't have that guarantee in writing, I'm not buying.

you had better have in writing that you're going to support all of its functionalities until the fridge dies.

Certainly sir. The fridge is engineered to die 1 day after the warranty expires, so we will have no problem supporting its full functionality until then.

I can, of course, offer you that guarantee and wind up the company next day.

If the law were changed to force companies to support kit for 20 years then the white goods manufacturers would just become like builders and go out of business every few years only to reappear with a different name the next day. The law could deal with this (mandatory bonds, insurance, etc.) but given that current law can't even persuade Whirlpool to recall and repair tumble dryers that burn houses down, I don't hold out any hope.

The title says it all.

the makers want. The less time you own a bit of kit that works, the sooner you need to go out and buy another 'improved' model with probably less support time than the old one. Samsung is well known for not updating its phones after a year or two so it isn't unreasonable to expect them to do the same for their white goods.

I won't be buying any of this 'limited use tat' for my home. As for connecting the tat up to the internet? forget it sunshine. It ain't gonna happen.

'Smart' anything is rapidly becoming a word that describes anything but smart. Rip-off more like.

As someone who has a Galaxy S9, I can report that the phone continues to receive Android and security updates...

But how cold does your S9 keep your beer?

Hmmm. A beer cooled phone. It reminds me of a meeting I was at. We all had those Nokia 6150s (lovely). One of my colleagues was highly amused at the vibrate function and announced that it was even better when contained in a glass. T our delight he set it to vibrate, asked someone to call it and dripped into the glass in front of him. It was full of water.

How we laughed.

@Steve: you might not have a choice when you buy your next appliance. Why would you sell one fridge in 25 years (that's how old mine is) when you can sell one every 5 years by forcing them to become obsolete? The market is ready for it because people already do it with phones. In a few years you'll buy a new fridge and it won't work until you've connected it to the web, logged in to the app and accepted the EULA which includes daily emails from Tesco and Asda reminding you that the milk is nearly out of date as read by the RFID tags printed on the packaging and if you don't click here by 2 minutes ago then four pints is on its way. Stuff that doesn't have RFID tags will have to have its details entered manually with associated "unidentified product in the door shelf area" announcement and you won't be able to close the door until you enter the data.

Christ - after re-reading that it makes me nostalgic for the 80s when all we had to look forward to was nuclear war and living like "Survivors".

My Sony Blue ray player is acting dumb.

No Youtube or Netflix for me.

At least I can play discs.

to be fair the sony "smart" TVs and blu-ray players were so unresponsive it was unbelievable.

I have a feeling they only talked to sony servers, which acted as a very slow intermediary for iPlayer etc.

Even the dumb ones have [1]computer traits that limit not only [2]the lifetime of the appliances , but potentially also their owners.

You really don't want to be turning these things on unattended.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halt_and_Catch_Fire_(computing)

[2] https://www.itv.com/news/2019-12-17/whirlpool-to-recall-hundreds-of-thousands-of-fire-risk-washing-machines/

It's not called Internet Of Twats for nothing.

My refrigerator was 36 years old when I replaced it, and I did that only because all the door shelves were gone. In 1982 the PC had just been introduced. I think the only protocol that's survived that long is TCP/IP itself and the early stuff like FTP & Telnet. HTTP wasn't around for another 7 years.

"My refrigerator was 36 years old when I replaced it"

If you replaced it with a consumer-grade one, I'll bet you a beer that the new one doesn't even last 8 years. And even if the guarantee says ten years, there will be some excuse in the fine print that'll make it your fault that it died early, so no replacement or repair.

Ha! I see what you did there!

> promised to issue software updates for a full decade after the release of a device

But what other services do they rely on?

If there is third-party stuff, then they are just as much a part of the product as what the vendor promises hopes to support. But if they close down, raise their prices, get bought, go bust, are hacked / pwned / blacklisted, rely on other (fourth party?) stuff or generally can't be arsed to keep their code working properly then your premium fridge is just as functional as a bargain basement version.

This is exactly the same as for every other "smart" device: TV, vacuum cleaner, cat feeder, doorbell and probably electric car, too. While they all might have the intention to deliver on their marketing promises, experience tells us that in the end: they don't. Whether it is a phone that stops getting updates or security patches after a few months, or a car that gets "premium" features locked out when sold second-hand. It turns out that all vendors of "smart" kit are insincere shysters.

We all know about buiilt-in obsolescence. But the new obsolescence comes in the form of an OTA update - or lack thereof.

"then your premium fridge is just as functional as a bargain basement version"

If you're lucky. If not it just gets bricked.

What is it exactly that kitchen equipment with 'smart' is supposed to solve?

Fridge says no. If you insist on overriding Fridge, Fridge will be forced to talk to your health insurance. If Insurance says no...

> you won't be party to any mammoth DDoS attacks

I knew the Siberian permafrost was melting, but I didn't know that Fancy Bear had recruited the mammoths. Keep dem mammoths frozens!!1!

Big fridge required.

is over 20 years old (22 guessing) and works fine.

Even treated it to a new door handle last year as my repair finally broke after a decade (daughter broke handle off, I glued it back on).

I wonder if it will managed 1/4 century?

Much the same thing here. I date them from the house we were in when we bouht them, ot years. The current freezer was bought while we were in our previous house so some time between '91 & '01. The previous was 2 houses further back so probably early 80s. I can't even remember when we bought the fridge but the door seal is starting to go - trouble is, I replaced the light bulb in it a few years ago and I'd hate to dispose of the fridge with some life left in the new one...

i.e. download a manual, search for: how do I open fridge door (issue: fridge powers down / subscription expired / brains not found)

https://youtu.be/A48AJ_5nWsc

All it needs to do is keep my fucking beer cold!

... they have their hand on the 'fridge door handle.

1) the date when it will no longer receive s/ware updates to protect it from the latest drive by attack

2) the date when the servers that it speaks to are switched off

Neither of these is explained in the point-of-sale blurb.

If you ask you might be told of a 'lifetime' - which likely started a year or two ago when the model was released - so what you have left can be quite short.

Quite apart from me not being able to understand *why* I would want something that costs more and blabs personal information to the manufacturer; I would never buy something where (2) those servers were not mine - prolly some R-pi in my house.

Thankfully there will always be a market for cheaper non IoT stuff that will be wanted by those who are not rich enough to be stupid enough to buy these nasties.

A non-smart consumer grade Whirlpool. Purchased by a smart couple in 1990. Only needed update was a new coat of appliances paint "downloaded" from the local hardware store last year

If the 'smarts' are held in the Cloud, the device on it's own shouldnt be considered 'smart'.

Interfaces should be documented, 'intelligence' should be built into smart devices.

They may connect to Cloud services (securely, privately) to provide a richer experience. But the core functionality that makes them 'smart' should be accessible with no internet.

All these "smart" devices are basically shit, from everything I've read about them. Look at the recent Sonos speaker debacle. They wanted to intentionally brick them, just because. You don't own them. Who wants to rent their fridge from some clown, ffs.

"All these "smart" devices are basically shit"

Maybe not the words I'd use. But I agree with the sentiment. The only "modern" device that we have added in 30 years that works noticably better than the mid-twentieth century stuff it replaced is a covey of Panasonic cordless phones that have replaced the dumb phone extensions. And even there, we don't use many of the capabilities of the new phones because they require entering keypad codes that nobody around here can be bothered to remember.

BTW. We networked the house decades ago (with 10-base2 originally. THAT long ago). I put a PC in the kitchen. It had hundreds of our favorite recipes. It did internet streaming. It could keep shopping lists. We were connected!!!

No one used it but me. And I didn't use it often. And mostly what I used it for was playing music. Occasionally we used it to Google something that came up in discussions in the adjacent living room. That's about it. When we rebuilt the kitchen four or five years ago, we didn't allocate space for a computer. Recipes are in a notebook. Shopping lists are on 3x5 cards in a holder attached to the fridge with magnets. If anyone wants music in the kitchen, they find a laptop and bring it in.

If anyone wants music in the kitchen, they find a laptop and bring it in.

I have a lot of music in my kitchen - I use something that you might have heard of: a 'radio'.

It works really well; super modern - it is a DAB radio. Tuned to either: Classic FM, BBC Radio 4 or Radio 3.

In the UK you have a 6 year warranty in law (5 years if in Scotland, for some reason) so I'm surprised we're not reading of these suppliers who cut off support being taken to court. If software needs patching or updates to remain fit for purpose, then it probably wasn't fit for purpose when it was bought. The insectorial

embrocation contamination is that the responsibility lies with the retailer who sold the item, not the OEM. If I'd have bought any IoT stuff whose use was cut off within 5 years I'd be expecting a full refund from Amazon, etc. Not that I've bough any IoT gubbins - like others, it's easier to open the fridge to see what's inside than log onto my PC.

Our fridge freezer was replaced last month - the warning light for the freezer part had come on and, even turning the temp control to maximum it stayed on. Defrosted it (well, the Missus did that) and the coils didn't cool after switching back on. We have a second freezer so no food lost (luckily, we'd been working through frozen supplies during lockdown, so sufficient space). It was 16 years old (nowhere near 30 but still respectable for a common brand) so I decided it wasn't worth troubleshooting a repair. Ordered replacement from the same dealer, who delivered and unpacked it (maintaining appropriate social distancing) and took the old one away. Reckoned the new one won't last as long, though - not made to the same standard!