News: 1588577473

... India’s IT minister has even labelled it “foolproof” ...

Oh but there are so many very clever fools out there, Minister

And with the stay at home restrictions imposed, those same folks will have plenty of time on their hands to prove you very, very, very wrong.

"I'm sorry Mister Officer but I *can't* install the app. I don't own a SmartPhone. Will the government give me one for free so that I can, or shall I keep using the only device I can afford which is this simple phone too dumb to do anything but make & take calls?"

*ChortleCough*

There's no chance I'm going to install any of these apps. Rushed through with no oversight, they'll just be a collection of security holes held together with snippets from stack overflow. I also don't put it past any of them to start harvesting and selling off my data the first chance they get.

I think you'll find that's true of most of the software on your phone now.

There's no chance I'm going to install any of these apps. Rushed through with no oversight, they'll just be a collection of security holes held together with snippets from stack overflow.

I'll certainly be installing the UK app, on the SIM'med up test phone I don't use.

How will Daily Express readers and the rest of the intellectually challenged view people refusing to install the app? How will the populists in the Cabinet get behind them? You'll be a Covidiot who is risking all our lives by your thoughtless, selfish behaviour!

So why risk joining the elderly in being bumped of the list of people who get tests and ventilators. Won't be official policy, of course, but then discrimination never is.

Yeah, this is essentially my strategy too. I'll stick it on a cheapy Alcatel or similar. Might help pass the lockdown time to also use it to investigate what it actually does. Probably things that are embarrassing/criminal/incompetent/inexplicable.

It's very easy for us techy folks to point out the flaws in every approach, and take potshots at ministers - who are indeed clueless but hopefully to some extent follow the expert advice available to them.

But.... there IS NO perfect solution. We have to compromise somewhere between total economic lockdown for a year or so (expensive), lift all restrictions (a fair few people are going to die), or a range of imperfect mitigations to keep the infection rate down.

Obviously *I* could write a better app than $lowest_bidder, and probably you could too, and actually in this case I'd be tempted to go with Apple/Google's joint effort globally.

But if you're going to sneer about one aspect, be it security/privacy/whatever, I'd be genuinely interested to know realistically what your proposal is, and projected costs/death rate.

It's very easy for us techy folks to point out the flaws in every approach, and take potshots at ministers - who are indeed clueless but hopefully to some extent follow the expert advice available to them.

It's people taking potshots, as you call it, that limits the Government's incompetence. How much more awful do you think their performance would have been if they had not been motivated by criticism of their performance on PPE procurement, testing, care homes etc.

But if you're going to sneer about one aspect, be it security/privacy/whatever, I'd be genuinely interested to know realistically what your proposal is, and projected costs/death rate.

No one is objecting to the principle, just the implementation. I simply don't trust my government - and with very good reason. They have nearly infinite resources for this, so there really is no excuse for a shit implementation. They could spend ten billion pounds writing the app if they needed to.

Whilst I doubt the app will work as well as many people believe - relating Bluetooth signal strength, irrespective of multipath fading and antenna polarization etc, to droplet inhalation, or whatever other transmission methods there are, seems a bit of a leap - but it may work brilliantly. No-one knows, but it's worth a shot.

On the other hand, it's probably best not to put all your eggs in this particular basket.

Well given the ease with which people will be able to "play around" with stuff on their phones, it does seem the solution is to rely mostly on network data and use the app to provide unreliable but more granular data.

Now try and sell that to the people; given peoples well-founded wariness of letting state agencies accumulate large amounts of data on them...

OK, so:

There already is an open API supported by the only two mobile OS developers with market penetration that emphasises decentralisation and privacy, and does the job.

It would be child's play to develop an app quickly and easily that uses it. End of proposal.

What the government has chosen to do is ignore the decentralisation and privacy offered, and develop a solution that centralises data.

* All previous evidence would indicate this data will rapidly be abused.

* All previous evidence would indicate this data will rapidly be compromised by other actors, because a government with a long record of dishonesty and an utter lack of transparency that does not care about your privacy certainly does not care about your security, at the backend or in the app.

* It should be noted that this is just the first step. Within a matter of months the tracing app will be supplemented by an immunity passport app that records facial biometrics. Access to public places and your workplace will likely depend on your co-operation in using this app. This despite warnings from the W.H.O that immunity passports will not work and provide a false sense of security.

* Once adoption is made either compulsory or refusal made socially unacceptable, the data gathered will soon be provided to:

1) Law Enforcement for fishing expeditions, fit-ups, persecution/marginalisation

2) Security forces for persecution of minorities, and "enemies of the state" (people who who disagree with the government).

3) Councils and Quangos for an endless bounty of automated and uncontestable fines for various claimed minor infractions

Of course, any attempt to contest the legalities of this will result in the application of the Civil Contingencies Act. This is an emergency after all.

So in summary:

Apple/Google way: decentralised, private contract tracing and warning

UKGov way: Police State in a box. Just add legislation.

"It's very easy for us techy folks to point out the flaws in every approach, and take potshots at ministers - who are indeed clueless but hopefully to some extent follow the expert advice available to them."

History would, for the most part, seem to indicate people in power take whatever "advice" leads to feathering their own nests and not for the advancement of a solution to the problem in hand.

As for 'pointing out flaws', I'd rather that than blindly taking the first 'solution' to hit the table. I'd say that is some form of quality control than simply pointing out flaws.

"Those who would give up essential Liberty,

to purchase a little temporary Safety,

deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

Cumming to a Fascist Government very near you soon.

Or lose the phone.

India’s IT minister is going to learn the truth about fools. There's always a better one.