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  ARM Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day, but set fire to him and he's warm for the rest of his life (Terry Pratchett, Jingo)

Yeah, that Zoom app you're trusting with work chatter? It lives with 'vampires feeding on the blood of human data'

(2020/03/27)


As the global coronavirus pandemic pushes the popularity of videoconferencing app Zoom to new heights, one web veteran has sounded the alarm over its "creepily chummy" relationship with tracking-based advertisers.

Doc Searls, co-author of the influential internet marketing book The Cluetrain Manifesto last century, [1]today warned

[2]cached

Zoom not only has the right to extract data from its users and their meetings, it works with Google and other ad networks to potentially turn this personal information into targeted ads that follow them across the web.

This personal info includes, and is not limited to, names, addresses and any other identifying data, job titles and employers, Facebook profiles, and device specifications. Crucially, it also includes "the content contained in cloud recordings, and instant messages, files, whiteboards ... shared while using the service."

Searls said reports outlining how Zoom was [3]collecting and sharing user data with advertisers, marketers, and other companies, prompted him to pore over the software maker's [4]privacy policy to see how it processes calls, messages, and transcripts.

And he concluded: "Zoom is in the advertising business, and in the worst end of it: the one that lives off harvested personal data.

"What makes this extra creepy is that Zoom is in a position to gather plenty of personal data, some of it very intimate (for example with a shrink talking to a patient) without anyone in the conversation knowing about it. (Unless, of course, they see an ad somewhere that looks like it was informed by a private conversation on Zoom.)"

Speaking of Zoom...

Zoom's iOS app sent analytics data to Facebook even if you didn't use Facebook, due to the application's use of the social network's Graph API, Vice [5]discovered . The privacy policy stated the software collects profile information when a Facebook account is used to sign into Zoom, though it didn't say anything about what happens if you don't use Facebook. Zoom has since corrected its code to not send analytics in these circumstances.

It should go without saying but don't share your Zoom meeting ID and password in public, such as on social media, as miscreants will spot it, hijack it, and bomb it with garbage. And don't forget to set a strong password, too. Zoom had to beef up its meeting security after Check Point [6]found a bunch of weaknesses, such as the fact it was easy to guess or brute-force meeting IDs.

The privacy policy states, as of March 18: "Zoom does use certain standard advertising tools which require personal data ... We use these tools to help us improve your advertising experience (such as serving advertisements on our behalf across the internet, serving personalized ads on our website, and providing analytics services) ... For example, Google may use this data to improve its advertising services for all companies who use their services."

Searls, a former Harvard Berkman Fellow, said netizens are likely unaware their information could be harvested from their Zoom accounts and video conferences for advertising and tracking across the internet: "A person whose personal data is being shed on Zoom doesn’t know that’s happening because Zoom doesn’t tell them. There’s no red light, like the one you see when a session is being recorded.

"Nobody goes to Zoom for an 'advertising experience,' personalized or not. And nobody wants ads aimed at their eyeballs elsewhere on the 'net by third parties using personal information leaked out through Zoom."

The Register asked Zoom, which offers free and paid-for conferencing plans, for comment on the critique, and has yet to hear back from the developer.

"Zoom doesn’t need to be in the advertising business, least of all in the part of it that lives like a vampire off the blood of human data," said Searls.

"If Zoom needs more money, it should charge more for its services, or give less away for free ... What Zoom’s current privacy policy says is worse than 'You don’t have any privacy here.' It says, 'We expose your virtual necks to data vampires who can do what they will with it.' Please fix it, Zoom. As for Zoom’s competitors, there’s a great weakness to exploit here."

The Zoom privacy policy, for what it's worth, states: "We do not allow marketing companies, advertisers, or anyone else to access personal data in exchange for payment ... in our humble opinion, we don’t think most of our users would see us as selling their information, as that practice is commonly understood."

Meanwhile, shares in Zoom are [7]up seven per cent today and 26 per cent over the past month. ®



[1] https://blogs.harvard.edu/doc/2020/03/27/zoom

[2] https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:RxLbT_LzyRMJ:https://blogs.harvard.edu/doc/2020/03/27/zoom/&hl=en&gl=us&strip=1&vwsrc=0

[3] https://www.consumerreports.org/video-conferencing-services/zoom-teleconferencing-privacy-concerns/

[4] https://zoom.us/privacy

[5] https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/k7e599/zoom-ios-app-sends-data-to-facebook-even-if-you-dont-have-a-facebook-account

[6] https://www.theregister.co.uk/2020/01/28/zoom_eavesdrop_hack/

[7] https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/ZM/

Ban hammer has begun

Yet Another Anonymous coward

Memo just came down not to discuss any sensitive information on any sharing platform teams/whatsapp/yammer/etc

Not clear exactly how to work from home without sharing anything

Followed by a highly confidential all-hands meeting about Q1 financials on webex

Re: Ban hammer has begun

Dan 55

Not clear exactly how to work from home without sharing anything

One of the self-hosted options from [1]this list ?

[1] https://www.troopmessenger.com/blogs/top-self-hosted-chat-software

Re: Ban hammer has begun

Yet Another Anonymous coward

Look at you with your fancy "able to choose the best software for the job" superpowers

We aren't allowed VPNs because of "security".

More fool me

SW10

Early adopter of the paid service who evangelised Zoom to others who were on Skype

Maybe I should move to Google Hangouts...

Hmm

Anonymous Coward

Zoom seems to be the meeting WFH channel of choice all of a sudden. Including school staff. And while good luck to them for most school staff meeting content (if that's an appropriate word) at the moment that virtual staff meeting might be used to share more confidential stuff, like the status of vulnerable kids. So there are real concerns there.

Back to GTM and Skype then!

Cave-Homme

I’ll be removing it tomorrow and back to GoToMeeting and Skype.

Re: Back to GTM and Skype then!

Yet Another Anonymous coward

The nice thing about Microsoft knowing all your intimate data is that they will just use it to market using Windows to you.

Colour me surprised!

Chris G

A FREE video conferencing app that slurps, how unusual is that?

Does nobody check out the permissions and at least have a quick look at the privacy terms before downloading and using?

Maybe it is time for legislation that requires all apps to state clearly up front their slurpage requirements from a user whether the app is free or not.

What are the alternatives?

ovation1357

Like many others, I have very recently dived into using Zoom on a daily basis - I'm even paying real money to use it. A particular driving factor was that the company's "approved" choice of Microsoft Teams was proving itself to be highly unreliable and extremely buggy. I'm hearing stories from many people about how they or their friends at other companies are abandoning Teams and heading to Zoom because of similar problems and/or a strong dislike of its utterly terrible user interface.

This seems to really be a game of Teams Vs Zoom so far as I can tell:

Is there an alternative to Zoom with a better track record and less spooky privacy policy? An alternative that also offers easy access from Windows, Mac, Linux, Android and iOS? An alternative which can display a screenfull of lots of simultaneous video participants as opposed to just 4? (I'm looking at you again Teams!)

I'm guessing there isn't, which is why zoom has become so hugely popular.

Zoom is a joy to use and has worked flawlessly for me and my colleagues (and for personal calls to my family) e over the past two weeks so it's disappointing to suddenly hear a load of bad press about its security and privacy today. I hope that Zoom will react to this and quickly improve the worst parts of its policy.

However my inner cynic does wonder whether Microsoft or some other interested competitor could be behind the new, widely reported and 'strenuously denied', rumour that the MoD has banned the use of Zoom. That's the bit that the major newspapers are running with even though its probably not even true.

This interest seems to stem from a nasty bug from July last year which only affected the Mac version of the client and was fixed in August. (https://www.cvedetails.com/cve/CVE-2019-13567/). They've only ever had 4 CVEs and nothing since that last one.

Okay, so their privacy policy is too invasive. But I'd argue that logging into any service using your Facebook account is just asking for your data to be harvested. If it's true that Facebook can slurp your data from Zoom in iOS even if you don't have an account then this is bad, however is there a chance this is genuinely an oversight? It sounds like it's a side effect of an API they're using. I guess the proof will be whether or not they change this to stop it happening.

The concerns about recording may have some substance but there is also an option to store recordings locally which presumably cannot be accessed by zoom admins. I don't really see how this is much different from other cloud storage.. Teams can record to Azure - it's still someone else's computer - does Microsoft offer a cast iron guarantee that they can't access Teams recordings?

Is Microsoft's Teams privacy policy so much better? If Windows 10 and its telematics is anything to go by I'd suggest they're likely to be up to similar tricks. After all Teams is 'free' isn't it?

Comparison to other products

choleric

How does this compare to other products on the market, eg. Hangouts, Meet, Fabecook, Skype, etc? Has El Reg done an exposé?

To paraphrase the Mutt quote that has adorned their website for the last 20-25 years, "all video conferencing sucks, this one just sucks less." Which video conferencing platform sucks less (private data) than all the rest?

[At school, Danny Madigan is daydreaming of Arnold Schwarzenegger as Hamlet; he
is confronting Claudius about the death of his father]
Hamlet: [lights a cigar] Hey, Claudius....you killed my father. [picks Claudius
up] Big mistake.
[He hurls him, screaming, through a window]
Narrator: Something is rotten in the state of Denmark! And, Hamlet is taking
out the trash!
[Hamlet is shown killing people with skulls and swords]
Old Man: Stay thy hand, fair prince!
Hamlet: Who said I'm fair? [produces a submachine gun and shoots him, plus
several other soldiers]
Narrator: No one is going to tell this sweet prince goodnight!
Hamlet: To be, or not to be. [lights a cigar] Not to be.
[An explosion occurs behind him]
-- https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Last_Action_Hero