News: 1584952391

Nor do I need or want one.

Whatcha have to say about that, Marylouise?

You win the hero medal, which bunker do we deliver it to?

Sorry, I have no bunker. I see no need for one of those, either.

Do you have one of those so called 'mobile' phones? Then they still can if you carry it with you. If not, then you don't, so it's not mobile.

Absolutely every mobile can be tracked to a quite fine granularity while it is active on the network either sending/receiving data (e.g. your app notifications) or making a call. When not doing that, the tracking is less granular - at best it is to cell level, but after a succession of timeouts to a lower granularity (grouping of cells). Networks can improve this by doing periodic paging which forces the phone to reconnect, or by tweaking the timeouts, or by reconfiguring cell groupings.

Depending on the number, and size of local cells. When using network location only, from home, about 1/2 mile from the waters edge, it would without fail show me bang dead centre of the local estuary, approx. a mile away. And I don't live either below the waves or on a boat. YMMV

Who lives in a pineapple under the sea?

The problem is, it assumes that you have a phone or you have it with you, when you leave the house.

For example, my wife has a smartphone, but usually leaves it at home when she walks the dog... She enjoys the fresh air and that she can't be disturbed.

Indeed. But keep quiet otherwise we will all be fitted with ankle tags.

Somehow I doubt the existing system could cope with that many tags.

It's ok - Crapita will be providing the tags so none of them will work

Your "dumb" phone will also be tracked. If it's 2G only, it can still be easily tracked by the network

it can only be tracked when it is ON. There's this thing called 'voice mail'. It generally works well when you do things like drive, etc. and leave the phone OFF (which you should do while driving, regardless). Then the phone is STILL good for use in emergencies, and you can listen to incoming messages when you get back home {or arrive at your destination, as needed).

besides, it's NOBODY'S BUSINESS where you are, except YOURS. "Big Nanny" can KISS my HAIRY FREEDOM LOVING ASS!

A long time ago now, we had an really, really old bit of equipment that did odd things when a mobile was active nearby. The solution was obvious; turn off mobiles near it. The problem diminished severely, but users still reported periodic problems. We came to the obvious conclusion and we told the users that somebody wasn't turning their phone off near it.

Eventually, after measures were put into place that assured that no mobiles were near it and turned on we looked into it further and discovered that the problem still happened periodically and momentarily with switched off a mobile sitting on it. The problem stopped occurring when the battery was removed from the mobile and reoccurred when the battery was replaced.

My conclusion; mobiles still periodically transmit even when "turned off" so make sure you take your battery out of your iPhone... oh wait, it's glued in so that you can't. ;)

"It's time to track people's smartphones"

that's a reason NOT to have a so-called "smart" phone. And I leave my dumb-phone OFF unless I need to call someone [for an emergency, most likely, the only reason to have one on me as I see it].

If I want to know where I am, I'll read a map, thanks... (and I can print directions to wherever before I leave).

I need a *finger* icon with the caption "TRACK THIS!"

The Shock Doctrine: The Rise of Disaster Capitalism

I've commented here before - if you read this and your blood doesn't boil, you haven't read it properly.

And here we go again - the next opportunity to diminish our freedoms still further.

"We're doing this temporarily to increase your safety."

Time and the virus pass...

"Yes, I know we originally said it was temporary, but things have changed."

For people who prefer the video format over the written word, she also made an excellent documentary:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3B5qt6gsxY

Yep, what will happen is that the virus won't quite go away. It'll go in lingering mode, just like the terrorism. Every few weeks some scare will crop up here or there. They'll keep us on our toes by regularly raising the 'threat level'.

And of course they will want the tracking to remain so that "it can be used immediately if needed". Meanwhile, it'll be expanded to tons of other uses 'because the data is there anyway'. That's how you get Chinese levels of surveillance in "free" nations.

I think you'll find that unlike the terrorist bogeymen, this virus is 100% real, and its effects are able to be mapped and predicted with a fairly good degree of accuracy.

It ain't lingering. It's exploding. Just watch the numbers over the next few days if you have any doubt.

I find it quite amazing how many of the people who think this virus is some kind of hoax, or no big deal, are the same people who were crapping themselves about the 'emergency' of mexicans, demanding a wall and lock down over muslim immigration.

To be fair, this is clearly a massive threat to huge numbers of people, as evidenced by what is happening in Italy. That's basically where the UK is going to be in the next two weeks, because it seems the UK government is still thinking it can kind of ride this out.

I understand the risk of the government enacting emergency powers. But it's clear that this is not just some secret squirrel people telling us there are all manner of nasty foreigners plotting to kill us (but presenting no evidence other than 'trust us'). This is a pandemic that can be modelled, and you only need to watch the deaths accelerating to see how entirely predictable the trajectory is. This is no longer a theoretical risk.

I do find it quite ironic to observe, in the US in particular, how the very same people who shat their pants daily over terrorists and mexicans, and demanded a wall, seem so chilled about something which is now killing hundreds of Americans, and by next week, will surely be killing thousands, and then 100s of thousands.

What we need, before we start tracking individuals by use of phones that they may, or may not, have with them is a consistent method of testing and reporting infection and mortality rates across the globe.

For example, Italy's mortality rate is so high because everyone who dies that is infected with CoV-19 is recorded as having died of the disease rather than the true cause of death.

As it stands at the moment, all this comparison of how well or how badly countries are doing in the fight against the virus is comparing apples with oranges.

Yesterday, Boris' aide said pretty much this.

And in Italy a lot of homes are multi-generational, so granny can't isolate.

But equally there is the possibility that they haven't been counting enough deaths.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-italy-homes-insigh/uncounted-among-coronavirus-victims-deaths-sweep-through-italys-nursing-homes-idUSKBN2152V0

"Gori said there had been 164 deaths in his town in the first two weeks of March this year, of which 31 were attributed to the coronavirus. That compares with 56 deaths over the same period last year."

accuracy could be improved, disease state measured better, etc. - that is true, but also there is a general lack of accuracy on the INFECTION rate, which can only be confirmed via accurate testing. Since "accurate testing" is expensive, it only makes sense to test people who are at risk and who have related symptoms. Asymptomatic people really don't need to be tested, as long as they are aware that they could spread disease, so they should behave "courteously" and do reasonable precautions, not sneeze on people, and so on.

It's up to indiv9duals, and NOT "Big Nanny". Treat people as if they are intelligent, and it's a fair bet they'll act like they're intelligent. We don't need a "Big Nanny" to think and control FOR us.

Treat people as if they are intelligent, and it's a fair bet they'll act like they're intelligent.

Unfortunately the crowds flocking to beaches etc. here in the UK (and Spring Break in the US etc., Oz) suggest that intelligence cannot currently be assumed...

They'd have to disregard those essential service workers (health care etc) who have been told to work like me.

Any excuse to bring in more surveillance.

They can easily be disregarded with an IMSI black/white list

You need to build that list first, good luck brave soldier.

> They'd have to disregard those essential service workers (health care etc) who have been told to work like me.

Or, being essential service workers, it is even more vital that they self-isolate properly otherwise they might be spreading to their colleagues, also essential service workers.

Worked in China

The reports from China were decidedly mixed and they were able to include nearly omnipresent facial recognition in the mix. Telephone location data is too inaccurate for this approach to be generally effective and that's before we get into the moral debate of the surveillance state.

I've worked on site a few times with people who'd recently been to China last December. One guy came back with a bad cold. who knows, it could have been Corona, but I don't know of anyone who's tested positive for the virus. I'm fine, he's fine, they're all fine, it was weeks ago, and for all I know we all caught it, and got over it. Or not. Can't say, because symptoms are often so mild you don't know you have it, or think it's just the passing flu crap (as usual), which I've had off and on for several weeks like every year. (hot showers, staying warm, spicy food, mentholatum up my nose, and liquor all seem to help).

And I might add, DON"T PANIC. No need or tracking people. That's just WRONG.

They've put in place what is effectively home imprisonment, and are strictly enforcing it. There's not much easing off in sight either, they will be waiting for several weeks to pass without any new cases before allowing limited local travel again. Many of us on here would be risking 're-education' for expressing our opinions & dislike of direct state control over our lives under their system.

We all have to act like grown ups and follow the medical advice properly, It's (just) possible to argue that much of the recent clearing of supermarket shelves has been because the majority of people don't have anything like two weeks worth of food & necessities they'll need during isolation due to modern lifestyles (24h shopping & next day delivery). This excuse is starting to wear thin.

Now the UK government has decided to directly feed the most vulnerable 1.5M for at least the next three months, it follows that priority workers will be next (another 3M+) and then potentially a national rationing scheme to keep the basics available.

The current requirements are needed, they must be removed when medically appropriate.

It was a bright cold day in May 2020, and the clocks were striking thirteen

Big Boris is Watching You.

Big Boris is Watching You.

And watching over his shoulder is Big Dom

>And watching over his shoulder is Big Dom

Big Dom, Big Bad Dom...

(for those of a certain age)

If you're old enough to remeber that, then you're old enough to be a candidate for his DNR Little List.

Leave the phone at home... social media distancing.

Yeah I was REALLY pleased to see my neighbours daughter who was staying over for a few days with her two children from Spain last week.

Why had she come over? To attend the "Mums in Business Association" awards in Leicester.

I really wish I was making this up...

The real problem with this is that Darwins Theory is more than likely to work against someone else rather than this idiotic woman... Sorry for the usage of the word Idiotic but it's difficult to come up with something less true.

Whoever put her up is also just as silly. Some people honestly believe that they are above the laws of nature... until nature shows them otherwise.....

My nephew flew back from South America a week ago. This weekend, he visited his girlfriend's grandmother. Total moron.

I have two neighbours. Both have had their children (20 somethings) return home from either London or ski resort in France. 3 more morons.

My friend's father died on Friday of Coronavirus, so feeling a bit touchy today.

> Why had she come over? To attend the "Mums in Business Association" awards in Leicester.

A quick Google shows this event took place on 7-Mar. Your neighbour's daughter would have travelled one or two days before, say 6th. Spain's Government didn't impose travel restrictions until 14-Mar.

So you're criticising this woman for what exactly? Not being a clairvoyant? Not being an epidemiologist? Or are you just dog-whistling a misogynist "Mum's in Business - ha ha that can't be a real thing"?

Not at all, the advice had been given at that point to not travel and avoid social gatherings which everyone ignored as not applying to them, which is why we are in the position we are now.

Yes I got the date slightly wrong, but I noticed it BECAUSE warnings had been made about unnecessary travel etc and Spain had been already been reported as a hotspot.

The virus has been active since December last year with the travel into Europe reasonable well documented I really don't think you need to be either a clairvoyant or an epidemiologist to understand that non essential travel in that situation is probably not the best idea.

But you do have to be looking at (and understanding) real news not just twitfacepalm.

The NHS was in crisis long before Corona.

Successive governments have closed hospitals and underfunded the NHS.

The NHS is a critical service. So why has our UK security service not addressed the over capacity, lack of contingency and lack of scalability. If I was to design a critical service and recommended it to run at 100%+ capacity with no contingency of spare capacity and where the continuity plan was to tell clients not to use the system. I would expect to be sacked

The government is responsible for where we are today. We are a first world country, unfortunately we have a very poor government security department that has not address the long known risk associated with the NHS

Maybe now we divert funds from the 100 billion pound railway line and treat the NHS availability risk.

Also: Stop criticising citizens, they are making decision based on the facts presented. DO THE TESTS. GET THE DATA, ACTUALL DO SOMETHING !!!!!!!!

Same with every industry ever run by a government anywhere in the world.

It's an inherent fault of command economy politics.

Really? China is the textbook example of a command economy and when they finally realised what they faced they did stuff like built entire hospitals in a week to tackle it.

I put it down to certain countries' governments' dogmatic predilection for cutting back so whatever it is is always running at 100% capacity... and then the black swan comes along.

Proof of this is that every winter we have the 'winter flu crisis'... if we have one every year for years then it's not a crisis, it's the NHS' inability to cope because it's been cut back on purpose.

. . . And then stripped other areas of China of their Medical staff to staff those new-built hospitals leaving those areas of China with understaffed medical systems. Of course, complaining about that would get you reeducated, so everybody in China is happy with it. :/

The NHS is a victim of it's own success. It succeeds at keeping people alive on expensive medication who would otherwise be dead. The number of people it keeps alive in this manner will expand to absorb the amount of money made available. At the moment the max spend is 100k pa, if they released that limit because the amount of money available had risen then the "new" money would still run out.

You could probably get practically every person in the UK to live to 110, if you spent enough on healthcare. The problem is that neither we or anybody else has unlimited amounts of money.