US Air Force F-16 Crashes in Michigan After Pentagon Orders More Flyovers (abcnews.com)
- Reference: 0185699550
- News link: https://news.slashdot.org/story/26/09/19/0420213/us-air-force-f-16-crashes-in-michigan-after-pentagon-orders-more-flyovers
- Source link: https://abcnews.com/US/texas-air-national-guard-16-crashes-michigan/story?id=136540121
[1]ABC News reports :
> A Texas Air National Guard F-16 crashed in Michigan during a training mission on Thursday afternoon, sparking an hourslong evacuation near the crash site, according to officials.
>
> The incident prompted the evacuation of homes and businesses within 1 mile of the crash site due to a "hazardous chemical spill related to the plane crash," Michigan State Police said... All of the Texas Air National Guard aircraft that were in Michigan for the training were immediately grounded, and will likely remain so for the next 24 hours, according to a U.S. official.
America's War Department has said it wanted to see more military flyovers [2]writes The Daily Beast , adding that the F-16 "was due to perform a flyover at a high-school football game on Friday night, [3]the Alpena News reported ."
> The military said it was still investigating the cause of the crash, but one pilot told air traffic controllers that he believes his wingman hit a bird before the crash....
>
> The accident followed a [4]Pentagon X post on Thursday after widespread criticism of low-altitude flyovers and maneuvers. "The flyovers will continue until morale improves," it said.
[1] https://abcnews.com/US/texas-air-national-guard-16-crashes-michigan/story?id=136540121
[2] https://www.thedailybeast.com/air-force-f-16-crashes-after-pentagon-orders-more-flyovers/
[3] https://www.thealpenanews.com/news/local-news/2026/09/f-16s-to-roar-over-alpenas-valor-game-vs-gaylord/
[4] https://x.com/DeptofWar/status/2100617022371455449?s=20
Had a local crash when I was a kid ... (Score:1)
I lived near an Air Force base as a kid. A fighter lost power and was going down. The pilot had some control. He chose not to eject since he was near a residential neighborhood. He chose to crash-land in an orchard. He put it down perfectly between two rows of trees and walked away. The ground between the tree rows was very slightly sunken from decades of use. That probably helped.
Re: (Score:1)
> Same. -ish. Pair of NJ national guard F16s flying a training mission off the coast of Atlantic City back in the summer of 2000 or 2001. One went crash into the ocean. Pilot ejected and the other one circled until the coast guard found him and picked him up. Watched the whole thing off the beach while on vacation.
I drove by the orchard a few days later, the aircraft was still there. The nose just visible from the town road that cut through the orchard. A couple of Air Police were back there to keep kids like me away.
Re: (Score:1)
> Had a local crash when I was a kid ...
You were lucky, didn't have to live in a bomb shelter for 35 years.
Why would I need a bomb shelter? Town was next to an Air Force base that likely had numerous nukes targeting it. Our duck and cover exercises at school were safety theatre, and we knew it.
Abusive tactic (Score:4, Interesting)
> "The flyovers will continue until morale improves," it said.
The original quote they are riffing on is "The beatings will continue until morale improves." Essentially this is a variant of the "make a threat, but in a joking fashion, but really functionally a threat" sort of thing that dangerous and abusive people will do. Trump uses versions of this all the time, and it isn't surprising that Hegseth and his people have picked up on this. I'd call this another warning sign about fascism but given everything else that's going on, including a grossly illegal war in Iran, Trump functionally threatening to undermine the upcoming election, and Trump having removed generals and other higher-ups in the military that he sees as insufficiently loyal (read, more likely to actually follow the law and morality when given an illegal order), and this incident becomes almost part of the rounding error.
Americans love the flyovers. For many man decades. (Score:1)
>> "The flyovers will continue until morale improves," it said.
> The original quote they are riffing on is "The beatings will continue until morale improves." Essentially this is a variant of the "make a threat, but in a joking fashion, but really functionally a threat" sort of thing that dangerous and abusive people will do.
Are you kidding? Flyovers are nothing new. And they tend to be incredibly popular, people love them, and have loved them for many many decades. Since the US military started flying. Well Americans do. I'm sure Putin wasn't very happy with his flyover demonstration.
Re: (Score:1)
>> Are you kidding? Flyovers are nothing new. And they tend to be incredibly popular, people love them, and have loved them for many many decades. Since the US military started flying. Well Americans do. I'm sure Putin wasn't very happy with his flyover demonstration.
> But ... but ... Trump orange hyperventilate something something??
Yep, my uncle and dad did not see the future danger in cheering when the local air national guard squadron flew some old WW2 aircraft over their high school football game in the 1950s. :-)
Re: (Score:2)
A flyover isn't the problem here. The statement is.
Re: (Score:1)
> A flyover isn't the problem here. The statement is.
What statement? And what makes you think people were cheering the statement, and not cheering the air crews and aircraft like they have for nearly a century?
Nope (Score:3)
It is exactly the same mechanism as special interest group politics: concentrated interest, diffuse harm.
You think that because the fanbois flock to Blue Angel celebrations. What you don't see is [1]all the people cursing at them everywhere else [imgur.com].
[1] https://imgur.com/gallery/air-show-Obuf6t3
You can always find a whiner, even fringe ones (Score:1)
> It is exactly the same mechanism as special interest group politics: concentrated interest, diffuse harm.
> You think that because the fanbois flock to Blue Angel celebrations. What you don't see is [1]all the people cursing at them everywhere else [imgur.com].
Oh I'm sure some people complain, but that tends to be a fringe behavior. I've been miles from an air show and one of the planes on a long turn flies overhead towards the venue. Most people in the area seemed pretty excited or impressed too. I lived in a town near a large Air Force Base for many years, either the Thunderbirds and Blue Angles would typically be there.
[1] https://imgur.com/gallery/air-show-Obuf6t3
Re: (Score:2)
Yeah, I'm sure those Genovese cable car passengers loved their flyover (under) experience.
Re: (Score:1)
> Yeah, I'm sure those Genovese cable car passengers loved their flyover (under) experience.
Not an authorized flight. Violated various regulations.
I have had friends hiking in the mountains get overflown at near treetop level by an F-15. It was one of their favorite experiences from many years in wilderness areas. Most of their fellow outdoors loving friends were jealous they weren't on that trip.
Re: (Score:2)
> The original quote they are riffing on is "The beatings will continue until morale improves."
The originaler quote from 1961 is, [1]"all liberty is canceled until morale improves." [archive.org] (page 55)
[1] https://web.archive.org/web/20170531204929/http://www.navy.mil/ah_online/archpdf/ah196111.pdf
Re: (Score:2)
Perhaps the pilot crashed due to low testosterone? [1]https://apnews.com/article/heg... [apnews.com]
Now Hegseth can personally taste samples from all the troops. [2]https://abcnews.com/Health/pen... [abcnews.com]
[1] https://apnews.com/article/hegseth-pentagon-testosterone-testing-troops-47333bbf3af9e4cac432722332ff1383
[2] https://abcnews.com/Health/pentagon-posts-new-guidance-mandatory-testosterone-screening/story?id=136562269
Just a thought... (Score:2)
...Modern ejector seats cause spinal injuries from which full recovery is "unusual". Smashing the spines of pilots might not be the most effective way to boost morale.
Pilots welcome virtually any excuse to get in air (Score:2)
> ...Modern ejector seats cause spinal injuries from which full recovery is "unusual". Smashing the spines of pilots might not be the most effective way to boost morale.
Ask a pilot if they think they get enough flight hours. Ask if they welcome virtually eny excuse to get up in the air. Its still real training, flying from waypoint to waypoint in formation.
Migration season (Score:4, Interesting)
Flying low over the central flyway during migration season might not be a good idea.
Geese are non-compressible fluids as far as jet turbines are concerned. A sandhill crane even more so.
Re: (Score:2)
> Flying low over the central flyway during migration season might not be a good idea.
> Geese are non-compressible fluids as far as jet turbines are concerned.
Probably a Canadian Geese trying to sneak into America.
Re: (Score:2)
I spent $3000 at the grocery store last year. That's a $3000 deficit. If I stop buying groceries then the deficit goes away. Checkmate liberals!
Seeing that it's Michigan ... (Score:4, Funny)
... I'm surprised that they didn't have to mobilize a rescue mission for the crew like they did for the F-15 in Iran.
hazardous chemical spill? (Score:2)
The article makes no mention of the type of spill that occurred. I've never heard of an F16 carrying enough "hazardous" chemicals to prompt a 2 mile diameter evacuation zone. The image and video in the article shows what appears to be the crash site in a residential neighborhood and the video also makes no mention of the nature of the chemical spill. Perhaps the chemical was on the ground but then why would it be stored in a residential area? I was involved in the recovery of a crashed A6 back in 1987. Mili
Ah yes (Score:2)
The fiscal conservatives at work again. What's the hourly cost to taxpayers for flying an F16?
Re:Ah yes (Score:5, Informative)
$22,000 per hour. The F35 will be nearer $42,000 per hour. These are under-estimates, as they do not include price hikes, crashes that close businesses, crashing into businesses, crashing into heavily-populated sports centres, etc.
Re: (Score:2)
> $22,000 per hour. The F35 will be nearer $42,000 per hour.
Yes, but pilots have to fly from waypoint to waypoint in formation for training purposes. These flights over stadiums count for such training hours, so its not really an additional expense. Even if there are extra flight hours in some cases, pilots routinely complain they do not get enough flight hours. So any additional hours in the air is valuable experience to them.
> These are under-estimates, as they do not include price hikes, crashes that close businesses, crashing into businesses, crashing into heavily-populated sports centres, etc.
Many Air Force bases are near cities and towns. There is already a risk of crashing near residential and business areas. We had one when I wa
Re: Ah yes (Score:2)
I will note that the bravery shown to risk oneâ(TM)s life to save others was in the far past. Although many in the military still follow that ethos, many others do not.
Admittedly most of us have never flown these aircraft and do not know what can be done to control the plane after a bird strike, but was ejecting from the plane and allowing it to crash into a populated area the best choice at that moment? Flying low does reduce your options and time to react. However many a plane has landed safely afte
Re: (Score:1)
We've had nearly a century of flyovers. I don't recall any serious concern in the last 50 years.
Flyover altitude is not a common bird altitude. Most birdstrikes are during a lower altitude during takeoff or landing. Speaking from the perspective of a Cesna pilot where a birdstrike is a pretty serious thing.
Re: (Score:2)
They will blame the accident on DEI or Obama or even Hillary's emails.
Cost is usually zero (Score:1)
> The fiscal conservatives at work again. What's the hourly cost to taxpayers for flying an F16?
Usually zero. Pilots have to practice flying from waypoint to waypoint in formation one way or another, with or without an audience.
Re: (Score:2)
> Usually zero.
Quite literally impossible.
Multi-waypoint time-on-target is military training (Score:1)
>> Usually zero.
> Quite literally impossible.
Nope. It matters not whether a cross country multi-waypoint formation flight happens over an empty desert or a city football stadium. Its still a cross country navigation exercise. And in this military case there is also a precise time-on-target (arrive at a precise predetermined time) component. Multi-waypoint, time on target, this is a military training exercise from the pilot's perspective. Sometimes you can do two things at once.
As a civilian pilot. Whether I do a cross country training flight to an
Re: (Score:2)
> Nope. It matters not whether a cross country multi-waypoint formation flight happens over an empty desert or a city football stadium. Its still a cross country navigation exercise. And in this military case there is also a precise time-on-target (arrive at a precise predetermined time) component. Multi-waypoint, time on target, this is a military training exercise from the pilot's perspective. Sometimes you can do two things at once.
Doesn't matter. Either way it's costing taxpayers money. An F16 costs around $3,000 in just fuel alone. So, the hourly cost to taxpayers for flying an F16 literally cannot be "usually zero" as you said.
Re: (Score:2)
$3,000/hr **
Air Crew hours are priceless (Score:1)
>> Nope. It matters not whether a cross country multi-waypoint formation flight happens over an empty desert or a city football stadium. Its still a cross country navigation exercise. And in this military case there is also a precise time-on-target (arrive at a precise predetermined time) component. Multi-waypoint, time on target, this is a military training exercise from the pilot's perspective. Sometimes you can do two things at once.
> Doesn't matter. Either way it's costing taxpayers money.
Nope. The point is it doesn't usually cost any additional money. The pilots have to train either way, audience or not. And even for rare occasions where they already have their cross country time on target hours in, it is still valuable training time. No military pilot is happy with the actually hours they get in the air. They all want more hours to further sharpen their skills. Pilots hit their targets, pilots survive, in proportion to their hours.
Did you know that part-time Air National Guard pilots ha
Re: (Score:2)
> The point is it doesn't usually cost any additional money.
The question was never about *additional* costs, just THE cost. It's not the taxpayers' fault that the military (and government in general) mismanages the money and doesn't give their pilots enough training hours.
> The pilots have to train either way
No one said they don't. However, they also don't need to do their training anywhere near populated areas.
> No military pilot is happy with the actually hours they get in the air.
I don't care.
> They all want more hours to further sharpen their skills.
Which is increasingly irrelevant with the advances in drone technology.
Re: (Score:1)
>> The point is it doesn't usually cost any additional money.
> The question was never about *additional* costs, just THE cost.
And the flyovers overwhelmingly also being valid training exercises is quite relevant to that.
> It's not the taxpayers' fault that the military (and government in general) mismanages the money and doesn't give their pilots enough training hours.
That is the exception not the rule for these flyovers. Normally they count as standard training hours.
>> The pilots have to train either way
> No one said they don't. However, they also don't need to do their training anywhere near populated areas.
Actually, doing some time-on-target training over a specific urban target is useful. Targets are sometime urban, not desert.
>> They all want more hours to further sharpen their skills.
> Which is increasingly irrelevant with the advances in drone technology.
Iran was a major supplier and user of drones. US pilots being more capable than Russian pilots seems to make a difference. BTW, Russian pilots are often even more starved of flight hours.