LG Responds to TV Spying Allegations (theverge.com)
- Reference: 0185623130
- News link: https://yro.slashdot.org/story/26/09/12/1652215/lg-responds-to-tv-spying-allegations
- Source link: https://www.theverge.com/tech/994333/lg-responds-to-tv-spying-allegations
> Some recent media coverage may have contributed to misconceptions about how LG smart TVs work. As an industry leader, LG believes we have a responsibility to provide customers with clear and accurate information about how our smart TVs operate and the privacy controls available to them. We would like to clarify how our smart TVs operate and explain our approach to user privacy.
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> LG smart TVs do not continuously record or transmit users' conversations. Speech-to-text processing begins only if a user activates a voice interaction through a supported wake-word feature or by pressing the voice (or AI) button on the remote control. Audio used for wake-word detection is processed locally on the TV and, if no wake word is detected, audio is not converted to text, stored, or transmitted. Voice-recognition results and related technical logs may be generated as part of processing a voice command. These records are associated with specific voice interactions and do not indicate continuous recording of conversations occurring outside an active voice recognition session.
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> Speech-recognition results may be used to support voice-related features but are not uploaded later when the TV is offline or when connectivity is restored. Features such as Automatic Content Recognition (ACR), voice recognition, and interest-based advertising are optional. These features are not enabled by default. Users can choose to enable these features and can manage or withdraw consent through TV settings.
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> ACR uses audio fingerprinting technology using the TV's internal audio processor (not a speaker) to identify content and does not collect screenshots, screen recordings, video recordings, voice recordings, or other audio recordings from the TV. Where ACR is available and enabled, ACR-related information may be used for audience segmentation and viewing or audience trend analysis. Interest-based advertising and cross-device advertising require separate user consent through the applicable advertising-related agreements. Protecting user privacy is a fundamental principle in the design and operation of LG products and services.
The statement goes on to "provide additional details on how LG smart TV features work, how information may be processed, what choices users have, and how LG continues to strengthen privacy, transparency, and security."
[1] https://www.theverge.com/tech/994333/lg-responds-to-tv-spying-allegations
[2] https://yro.slashdot.org/story/26/09/08/1634205/lg-tvs-caught-spying-even-when-offline-or-on-standby
credibility (Score:5, Insightful)
After the monitor adware debacle (which I experienced), I am disinclined to trust them on this.
I own 2 LG monitors and 2 LG Smart TVs, but next time, I'll be looking elsewhere.
Re: (Score:2)
> After the monitor adware debacle (which I experienced), I am disinclined to trust them on this.
> I own 2 LG monitors and 2 LG Smart TVs, but next time, I'll be looking elsewhere.
I like my LG stuff. I'll just keep the TVs not connected to the internet, and behind AppleTVs. And, as an added bonus, I don't get LG's commercials.
Now if Apple starts doing shady shit like this I'll be truly screwed, but we're not there. Yet.
Re: credibility (Score:5, Informative)
If you have a neighbor with open WiFi, it can connect to it and send the spying data without your knowledge.
Even if you physically remove the built-in microphone the tv can still record you through other means.
That's some of the things the researchers found out.
The fix is to fully wrap your tv in foil to prevent the data to leave your house. The display will be hard to watch unfortunately.
Re: (Score:2)
IIRC, even some of the "passworded" Xfinity routers will still let devices initiate a connection, some kind of semi-mesh network feature (they needed another product to sell).
It's web proxy, web scraping for AI training (Score:2)
These internet connected devices which allow for third-party app downloads are being used to crawl and index for AI training data, collect online shopping prices and more.
Not linking it here, there is a SDK which allows app developers to monetize the internet bandwidth of connected devices. The SDK runs on smart TV and other internet devices.
This is why Google has a captcha based block on web searches since there is a large effort to use other AI LLMs to get data to train another LLM.
A google for "web scra
Re: (Score:2)
So what's your solution for the McAfee adware, don't plug the monitor into your computer?
Running Linux almost works, but I bought this ultrawide for gaming, which still unfortunately means Windows.
No spying possible if no camera & microphone (Score:2)
A TV can be full of useful features without camera and microphone. "Voice control" and "gesture control" are totally unnecessary "smart" features that are in fact dumb.
To cater with those who really want those dumb features, put camera and microphone under guard of physical on-off switch. When the switch is off, the camera and microphone output shall be blank and the OS shall see and hear black and silence.
Re:No spying possible if no camera & microphon (Score:5, Insightful)
Congrats you haven't eliminated the microphone. Modern TVs have microphones used for DSP to make their 5mm thick speakers sound passable. Also who says that the spying disappears when you get a TV without voice control or gesture control? You call these features "unnecessary", but the companies that make money selling your data consider them very necessary.
Also why would you trust the off switch? May as well take LG's word that they aren't spying. In fact if you follow the original story and watch the video you'll note that the LG TV very much does have a switch to switch off the microphone including an OS flag that the microphone is off. But which microphone? The mic in the TV is off, but what about the one in the smart remote? Also even with the TV mic off they were still able to recover speech from the mic. Turns out software muting was insufficient to actually mute the sound to the point where speech couldn't be not just recovered, but also people identified by voice. Thanks modern day low-noise 32bit ADCs.
The only thing you can do as a consumer is choose whom you trust.
Re: (Score:2)
One option is to buy a [1]commercial signage display [bhphotovideo.com] which are still more like "dumb" displays. While almost all of them now include an onboard player and automation features as well few if any will include a mic and camera.
Even then on these lines they can't pull the same shenanigans as the consumer market, these things touch corporate networks, trying to sneak out data will get you on a do not purchase list.
Or just accept a lot of people like and use these features or are indifferent so you can't avoid it,
[1] https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1931880-REG/sharp_pn_e559_55_ultra_high_definition.html/overview
Re: (Score:2)
One option is to buy a commercial signage display [bhphotovideo.com] which are still more like "dumb" displays. "
That is overkill. Just buy whatever TV you want and never connect to it a network. I bought a high-end Samsung and have been enjoying it for years. It has never been connected to a network. And no, there is no "open"/insecure WiFi network in range of the TV. So if it is collecting anything, it doesn't matter. "Smart" stuff should be separate and replaceable. I have a non-networked blueray p
Re: (Score:2)
Yes but your last sentence hits it in a nutshell. The privacy nightmare not withstanding people actually *want* Smart TVs. Virtually the whole market for those who don't are made up of a few people here on Slashdot. People actively shop for TVs which include Netflix, HBO, Disney+, etc. I'm among them, I bought my last TV precisely because it included support for Steam Link and the ability to cast to it as a UPnP endpoint and support for DLNA. The trend for home simplification is clear among wider consumers,
Re: No spying possible if no camera & micropho (Score:2)
I use an Optoma UHD65 4K projector. It doesn't have Wifi. It has Ethernet, but strictly for remote control. Otherwise, HDMI and VGA. It can't phone home.
I have two words (Score:2)
Bull and shit. These devices are built around the concept of marketing and what better way than to listen, record, and categorize what people are saying about themselves and watching. These devices work in conjuction with every other "smart" device out there managing your life so you dont have to while steering you into a false of security. limiting your choices through the illusion of convenience, and sacrificing privacy. If you look at what your mobile phone does already, this is the next logical step rig
Also "Smart" Spy-TV's Have a Longevity Problem (Score:2)
I have a 50" Samsung 4k 120hz "Smart" TV. Given its size, the TV specs are still competent, but the software is no longer updated, and so, the software is useless for many services. The answer for Smart TV's is just to hook them up to a Linux Box.
Re: (Score:2)
You're assuming they can't connect to a nearby open wifi net. Some reports have them doing that, though I don't know how valid those reports were.
Re: (Score:1)
i know for a fact one of our sites has LoS through windows that reaches the neighborhood, where at least two houses have what is surely a tv (probably not LG brand, oui suggests some other more cheap shenzen amazon aliexpress tier) that keeps trying to get onto our .1x signals, which is funny since lesser consumer/september grade devices often aren't even capable of enterprise .1x or cert negotiation
they try all our signals, every 60 seconds, more noise in the logs, network guy really should just dip the wa
Re: (Score:2)
Why a linux box? You can pick from a selection of awesomely capable sticks or mini boxes that work perfectly, support wide formats, and never ask you to mess with an OS at all. And they're cheap.
LG or Wireshark - Who do you believe? (Score:5, Informative)
Pretty sure I'd trust Wireshark over LG..
Failure to communicate (Score:5, Insightful)
It is not what we think you are going to do with the information.
Instead, we do NOT trust you. Not with the data, not with telling us which data you will keep, not with a microphone at all.
We do not want a microphone or a camera attached to anything that connects to the internet unless we need such devices for features we consider essential.
And the words "TV on" are not essential. The 'clicker' as grandma called it, works BETTER than your claimed feature.
Re: (Score:2)
No idea why you're down voted. this was both a solid deep cut quote and highly relevant.
Liar liar (Score:2)
Pants on fire.
LG guilty of an epistemological inexactitude :o (Score:5, Insightful)
“The TV doesn't continuously upload your conversations” is not necessarily the same claim as “the TV never listens to ambient audio.”
Sir Humphrey Appleby: “Unfortunately, although the answer was indeed clear, simple, and straightforward, there is some difficulty in justifiably assigning to it the fourth of the epithets you applied to the statement, inasmuch as the precise correlation between the information you communicated and the facts, insofar as they can be determined and demonstrated, is such as to cause epistemological problems, of sufficient magnitude as to lay upon the logical and semantic resources of the English language a heavier burden than they can reasonably be expected to bear.”
Gamers Nexis fires back (Score:3)
Steve just posted a response to the response.
"LG Says We're Fake News"
[1]https://youtu.be/ToP9xfLDSME [youtu.be]
[1] https://youtu.be/ToP9xfLDSME
Re: (Score:2)
Came to post this. LG's response isn't worth recycling into toilet paper.
It's nothing but technical gibberish in order to cover their ass until the business heads can either divest or destroy evidence and emails.
Re: (Score:2)
Thanks, Steve.
After he called them out on the McAfee adware, and now this data exfiltration, there must be someone at LG getting very upset with him.
For my part, I'm wondering who I'm even going to buy my next monitor from. I have two LGs on the desk right now, not because they had the best specs, but because the company seemed less slimey than Samsung. I don't know who else even manufactures OLEDs or mini-LEDs.
Re: (Score:2)
Quite a few OLED Panel makers.
There is no need for a TV 'wake word' (Score:1)
Anyone that wants to control their TV via voice likely already has a way to do it. All the TV needs to do is provide an interface; let the voice control come from elsewhere. I don't want a wake word for the TV and another wake word for my Home Assistant.
Re: (Score:2)
> Anyone that wants to control their TV via voice likely already has a way to do it.
Back in my day, every TV had voice control, it was called telling your kid to get up and go change it over to channel 7!
Unfortunate (Score:3)
They make really good tvs. Always get high marks no matter who rates them.
The sad part is Hisense, from China, is usually ranked near the top as well, and we know how seriously China takes privacy.
It's not the choices you tell me I have (Score:3)
That worry me - it's the ones I don't know about.
Technical details please (Score:1)
Show your cards. Show the world the source code and related information needed so independent experts can tell the lay public what is really going on.
Yes, you may have to reveal trade secrets, but that is the price you have to pay when your product looks like it is up to no good.
Opt Out (Score:1)
Great! this is so good news. Now LG, give us a way to OPT OUT of EVERYTHING, which is NOT POSSIBLE.
Re: (Score:2)
It should be opt in. So that you are aware from the start what you are potentially getting in to.
LG ACR Uploaded 8.4 GB of Data in a week! (Score:4, Interesting)
Shenanigans, I call shenanigans, I want the government to intervene because LG is full of shenanigans and perpetrating shenanigans!
I have an LG OLED 60-in TV that I have been upgrading their web OS for the last 10 years or so and I have been monitoring that transmissions and their TV routinely tries to break out of my firewall block by showing up pop-ups and updates to the new terms of service that it wants me to accept and I always close down the window and never accept any.
As I mentioned in my previous post on this story, I was curious to see what was happening with the LG TV and I monitored its transmission through my internet router and out to the internet and found that if automatic content recognition (ACR) Is agreed to in the five different sections of the terms of service. The TV will take screenshots and will upload them up to South Korean IP addresses owned by LG and other registered entities.
I watched it upload 8.4 GB of data in one week of only about 3 to 4 hours of TV watching per day. There is no way that this is just audio data using whatever codec they want to use. Even straight up uncompressed raw waveform, it is definitely taking screenshots and pictures.
PS: If this poor excuse for a forum had the ability to insert images or attach images, I would show you the data myself. Also if I try to upload an HTML PRE-structured text then I could show you the textual output but I can't since every time I try I get blocked by the spam filter and having to fight it by changing the text is more of a pain in the ass than worth it.
Re: LG ACR Uploaded 8.4 GB of Data in a week! (Score:2)
If any attorney wants to start a class action lawsuit , I'll be more than welcome to participate as a primary plaintiff or completant since I have all the documentation and history of upgrades of this LG OLED 60-in TV running their WebOS for more than a decade and me rejecting and not accepting any of the terms of service after I unagreed to after the first time, I noticed the massive amounts of data the TV was sending with ACR spying.
The TV always tries to break out of my firewall blocks and when my interne
Re: LG ACR Uploaded 8.4 GB of Data in a week! (Score:2)
I remodeled my kitchen last year and bought an LG oven. The latch cover, small plastic part was broken. I asked them to send me a replacement. Online support agreed, twice, but never sent me anything. I ventualky they said they would send a tech, after I inquired about cost they said that I might have to pay for the tech (around $150, and the new door over $500).
I reminded them of the right to repair regulation in California and that I would even pay a couple of bucks for the LEGO sized plastic hinge cover.
Misconceptions. (Score:2)
Sure were 100% motivated by profit, but trust us! We're not spying on you! We love you too much to do that! Our mothers didn't raise us to be a telemetry nightmare and sell your info to our trusted 800 partners! NO! How DARE you accuse us of the things - that everyone else is doing!
Their message is pretty simple (Score:1)
Trust what we say, not what we do.
Re: (Score:2)
Considering my LG TV just updated last week with a "no class action lawsuit" T&C clause, I'm pretty sure what they're saying is "yeah, we're screwing you, but we're hoping you accept these new T&C before you join a class."