NYC Public Schools Ban AI Use Through Middle School
- Reference: 0185375185
- News link: https://news.slashdot.org/story/26/09/02/167206/nyc-public-schools-ban-ai-use-through-middle-school
- Source link:
> In a statement to ABC News, New York City Mayor Zohran Mamdani said that the city is implementing a moratorium on generative AI for students in pre-school or 2-K through eighth grade and will spend the next year "studying the impacts of this technology." Mamdani wrote in part, "the tech industry wants us to believe that A.I.-powered early education is not only inevitable, but necessary." "We do not see it that way," he added.
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> [...] The district said it is implementing the most expansive AI moratorium in the nation, eliminating software that uses student-facing AI and banning companion chatbots. The city's AI moratorium does not apply to high school students. The district said it will offer twice-yearly AI literacy classes designed to help high school students "think critically" about the technology before they start to "rely" on it.
[1] https://abcnews.com/Technology/new-york-city-public-schools-banning-ai-middle/story?id=136134872
oh no... (Score:2)
Somebody thought of the children...
Re: (Score:3)
They don't teach how to use a power tool in school either. School is not about teaching you 'a tool,' it is about teaching a student the underlying thought processes needed to be able to learn *any* tool on their own.
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> They don't teach how to use a power tool in school either.
In year 7, I used power tools, and used bandsaws and wood lathe's and even learnt to solder in Electronics.....
Learnt to use an oven, and how to cook in Home Ec....
Oh wait - your in the US - Not Australia......
Re: When in doubt, get the leg irons... (Score:2)
I got all that by year 9 plus a plastics class.
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> They don't teach how to use a power tool in school either.
Maybe it was because I went to school in crazy ass Florida, but in middle school shop class I distinctively remember using several power tools, and two types of welders.
Turned out I was actually pretty decent at welding, which did end up influencing my career path. Can't say I'm entirely pleased with the income, though.
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Yes, because americans generally aspire to the quality of life enjoyed by the average chinese, iranian, indian and russian /s
I don't like most of what Mamdani has done, but this i can agree with. People make the comparison to calculators, but if you give kids calculators too early and they never learn basic arithmetic, they'll suffer for it later (even if they have a calculator to rely on!)
How do you ban it? (Score:2)
Maybe in the classroom, but beyond that ...? Age verification? They've tried banning social media in other countries. How has that gone?
Calculators (Score:2)
We're well past the point where we all have a calculator app in our pocket, but if you've ever felt the frustration of having a discussion with someone who can't do simple arithmetic because they never had to do flash cards in school, you probably understand why students should learn the basics before moving on to more power tools. There are just times you need to pickup a screwdriver, and times you reach for the impact driver.
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> if you've ever felt the frustration of having a discussion with someone who can't do simple arithmetic because they never had to do flash cards in school
There was a TV game show based around the premise that adults do typically forget most of what they learned in grade school. The main reason older generations tended to retain a better basic working knowledge of arithmetic was because they didn't carry around a smartphone in their pockets.
Re: Calculators (Score:2)
Ok, but I'm partially innumerate. I simply can't do longer sums in my head because I can't keep track of the digits. It may be related to my almost total aphantasia. So I'm never going to be able to do that shit rapidly without a calculator.
A far bigger problem is that people don't learn to think critically so they don't ask the necessary questions. It doesn't matter if they could do the math in their head if they don't understand why.
Won't help (Score:2)
I mean, good for them for taking this step. Should extend it through highschool, but the root cause of the problems they're facing isn't AI, it's old fashion real-human stupidity making critical education decisions.
Good (Score:3)
I think for schools AI is kind of like digital clocks or calculators. You need to learn the basics before you automate the basics.
Re:Good (Score:5, Insightful)
If no human being interacts with AI until age 20, what is the harm? We know this already works.
The burden of proof is on those who want to change the current status quo.
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> If no human being interacts with AI until age 20, what is the harm?
Possibly producing another generation that has an even greater desire to vote for the party that wants to roll things back to some romanticized version of the past? Maybe it actually would be a better idea to start teaching students how to adapt to the world they're going to be living in, rather than the one it used to be. Crazy idea, I know.
Re: Good (Score:2)
If your primary social interaction is with machines that flatter and placate, why participate in a democracy at all? Maybe vote the machines to be in charge to avoid the whole confusing thing of communicating and coexisting with other human beings.
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> If your primary social interaction is with machines that flatter and placate, why participate in a democracy at all?
So just don't take things that far, then. I mean if a construction worker took his jackhammer out for drinks after work too, yeah, we'd say that's a problem. As long as we're teaching kids there's a time, place and appropriate use for their tools, and that they're not a substitute for genuine human interaction - that's how education is supposed to function.
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Knee jerking reaction back to the passed is stupid. Rejecting things that bring great harm - AFTER they have brought great harm, that's novel. You are very very confused.
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The AI genie isn't going back in the bottle. Education has to prepare future generations for that, one way or another.
Ah the romanticized 1960s / 70s (Score:3)
>> If no human being interacts with AI until age 20, what is the harm?
> Possibly producing another generation that has an even greater desire to vote for the party that wants to roll things back to some romanticized version of the past?.
True, the radical 1960s/70s is inaccurately romanticized. While the real protesters just wanted to see Civil Rights attained and the Vietnam War end, the self styled socialist revolutionaries and radicals crossed the line in arson, assassination, bombings, etc. They really were marxist and maoist inspired domestic terrorists who wanted to tear down the USA and build a communist order. Not my opinion, they admitted this, Weatherman, etc. After Vietnam ended they lost support, were very upset student were no
Re: Ah the romanticized 1960s / 70s (Score:2)
Lolololol as if we were seeing the fruits of anything but the malignant tree of capitalism
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Agreed - but this is the wrong target. They should ban computers and "smart" devices entirely, not just AI. Books and hand written tests/homework. Like you said, we already know this works.
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But there is data just for having computers. They don't help in the early years and only add distraction and harmful shortcuts.
No one asked, but I don't think this ban goes far enough because it stops at 'AI'. It should include computers in anything but computer class. Oh and phones.
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It'd be nice if there was a Federal department for these types of things, one who could collect and provide such data and guidance for state and local school districts who lack the funding and resources to study these things on the scale needed. Let's call this imaginary place, oh I don't know, let's go with Department of Education. [1]Oh well, no such luck there. [nea.org]
[1] https://www.nea.org/nea-today/all-news-articles/plan-abolish-education-department-one-year-later
Education declined of Dept of Ed, a 70s experiment (Score:2)
> It'd be nice if there was a Federal department for these types of things, one who could collect and provide such data and guidance for state and local school districts who lack the funding and resources to study these things on the scale needed.
Suggestions, not money. And scale is a fools errand. There is a localized component to education, a one size fits all solution is troublesome.
As for funding, I refer you to the famous Nixon/Kennedy debate. Both the republican and the democrat agreed that federal funding was a danger. That with federal money always comes strings, control. That at most maybe the feds could pay for some one time expense, like building and equipping a new school building. But never for ongoing expenses like teacher salaries
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> There is a localized component to education, a one size fits all solution is troublesome.
Yes of course but there is such a thing as standards and guidance which is how the DoE generally worked. Can you point me to another countries education system that works on a local first model without a central agency of some type?
> That at most maybe the feds could pay for some one time expense, like building and equipping a new school building. But never for ongoing expenses like teacher salaries and such, then the strings will follow.
You said the thing and made it scary but you can't fool me, you didn't actually describe the strings (because they don't really exist). You just said the Feds pay for a new building so, yeah, the locality gets a new school building but they still have to collect local taxes to
The generation that put the US on the moon ... (Score:2)
> Any sort of blanket ban is stupid before we have all the data.
Not really. We know the non-AI approach works. The generation that put the US on the moon used paper, pencil, slide rules, mathematical lookup tables, paper dictionaries and paper thesaurus.
For me, calculators did not become inexpensive and common until jr high We could not use them on tests until high school when we were in advanced math or science classes where we were not being tested on our arithmetic. I can attest that the calculator convenience has slowed down my ability to do math in my head. Howe
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> different methods that parents want to try
this is about curricula, tools and rules in public schools . i don't think parents have any say except trying to lobby. interestingly enough part of the motivation for this initiative seems to come from parents actually having lobbyied for it.
> and that will provide us the data for future generations.
my impression here is that the lack of data and regulation is precisely the point. for caution. from what i read kids in that segment are already exposed to a host of apps and chatbots from a plethora of providers. what could possibly go wrong? are you willing to risk h
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Damn these kids and their newfangled paper! Back in my day, we were taught how to pound reeds into papyrus and if you're not doing that, you ain't learnin'.
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Because learning long division before using a calculator is like making paper by hand? Seems to me that kids don't run the paper mill.
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Using a calculator just takes away the tediousness of having to do mathematics. I recall one of my math teachers actually not being opposed to the use of calculators, because (and I'm definitely paraphrasing here after so much time has passed) "If you don't understand what you're doing, a calculator is not going to give you the right answer."
Granted, yes, it creates a reliance upon the underlying technology being utilized, but we've collectively done that with a lot of things (even going so far as designi