Millions of Cars Recalled Over Danger of Bursting Into Flames. But They're Not EVs. (msn.com)
- Reference: 0185263454
- News link: https://tech.slashdot.org/story/26/08/29/0033244/millions-of-cars-recalled-over-danger-of-bursting-into-flames-but-theyre-not-evs
- Source link: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/what-s-really-driving-recalls-of-cars-at-risk-of-bursting-into-flames-it-s-not-evs/ar-AA2b6FHi
Electric vehicles "are not driving the recent growth in recalls warning that vehicles could erupt into flames at any time, even when parked and turned off."
> A Washington Post analysis of National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) recall notices found that conventional gas and diesel vehicles made up the vast majority of vehicles covered by the "park outside" label since 2021.
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> Last week, The Post wrote about an [2]alarming surge in these so-called "park outside" recalls ... A total of an estimated 3.4 million vehicles currently have outstanding recalls of this kind, according to vehicle history provider CarFax. Safety experts say the surge in "park outside" recalls appears to be caused by other changes to modern gas and electric vehicles, such as the additional technology in everything from transmissions to seat warmers.... [It's a messy mix of things that "doesn't lend itself to simple description of what's happening," says Sean Kane, president of auto safety-analysis firm Safety Research and Strategies. "But it boils down to growing electronic systems and the number of components."]
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> They're known as "key-off fires," said Frank Borris, a former NHTSA investigator who now works as a safety consultant. "The engine is off," he said, "but the circuits are still hot and they stay hot all the time." Earlier this year, Kia needed to recall [3]463,000 Tellurides because of the risk that the front power-seat switch could overheat and ignite the seat. That was the second time Kia had issued a recall for that one defect. The first recall, in 2024, didn't fully address the problem. More than 66,000 [4]Ford Expeditions and Lincoln Navigators from the 2021 model year were recalled due to circuit boards in the battery junction box that could short out. At least 16 fires were blamed on the problem, which often ignited when the vehicles were parked and turned off.
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> NHTSA has issued 93 "park outside" recalls since 2021, according to a Post analysis. Nearly half — 44 recalls — covered vehicles exclusively with conventional internal-combustion engines, while 38 recalls were just for EVs or hybrids. So the number of campaigns were nearly equally divided between gas and electric or hybrid vehicles. But gas vehicles pull away when comparing the size of the recalls. Gas-only campaigns covered a combined 4.6 million vehicles with "park outside" recalls over the past five years, compared to only about 662,000 vehicles that were EVs or hybrids...
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> Other countries have provided limited looks at the EV fire issue, such as an United Kingdom government review of data from Norway [5]finding that gas and diesel vehicles had a fire incidence rate that was four times higher than EVs from 2016 to 2021.
Just in 2026, U.S. authorities have announced 17 new "park outside" recalls covering 1.7 million vehicles, according to the article.
[1] https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/what-s-really-driving-recalls-of-cars-at-risk-of-bursting-into-flames-it-s-not-evs/ar-AA2b6FHi
[2] https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/general/they-were-told-to-park-outside-then-their-cars-burst-into-flames/ar-AA2ahnLG
[3] https://www.nhtsa.gov/press-releases/kia-telluride-recall-fire-risk
[4] https://www.nhtsa.gov/press-releases/consumer-alert-ford-issues-park-outside-warning-2021-expeditions-and-lincoln
[5] https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/electric-vehicles-costs-charging-and-infrastructure/electric-vehicles-costs-charging-and-infrastructure#ev-safety
I haven't read anything (Score:1)
$1 says it's a Chrysler product.
In honor of Dolly Parton (Score:2, Troll)
From OP:
> the front power-seat switch could overheat and ignite the seat
Dolly Parton playing Miss Mona in The Best Little Whorehouse in Texas :
> You know what burns my ass?
Fuel Efficiency Above All Else! (Score:1)
National Highway Traffic Safety Administration has jettisoned *SAFETY*. Thank you EPA, [1]NHTSA [nhtsa.gov], and any other federal agencies that have pursued this goal from 1975 to present. (Dammit Ford! No, the [2]other one [wikipedia.org]). Modern vehicles aren't merely crash-unworthy, they can suddenly combust. At least we get terrific MPG on paper! Automatics get worse fuel economy than manuals--don't believe what car manufacturers publish. They have to comply with CAFE, and have every reason to lie.
[1] https://www.nhtsa.gov/laws-regulations/corporate-average-fuel-economy
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerald_Ford
What if s/ware was held to the same standard (Score:2)
and s/ware vendors had to provide patches/... for free. Declaring a short product lifetime would not be allowed. Would we have better quality s/ware, written secure by design ?
Of course (Score:2)
Of course, the number of conventional vehicles recalled is larger. The number of conventional vehicles is much larger. What I wonder about is the number of different defects involved. A single defect in a manufacturer's product line could affect many models and generate multiple recalls. It looks like Jeep and Kia/Hyundai are the main offenders and they are hardly known for quality.
Just numbers, or some culture? (Score:3, Interesting)
It could certainly just be a numbers game; tons of ICE vehicles out there; or whether there's an issue with accumulated cultural assumptions and engineering priorities.
I can at least imagine that there's a difference in mindset between "this is a 12v lead acid starter battery; it'll put out a solid few tens of amps for the starter motor assuming it is working correctly; but its energy density is kind of trash and we mostly prefer not to dump additional systems onto it, especially when that exposes them to the slightly gross output of the alternator" and "This battery has been designed to fully provide for all energy requirements of a vehicle; if you displease it it will probably kill you and then burn vigorously for a day or two. A foundational assumption of all systems that need energy is that they'll be connected back to it in one way or another because there aren't other energy sources here."
Not like electric vehicle designers couldn't/don't make mistakes, and certainly some of their mistakes burn with the really exciting commitment of a large light metal fire; but the engineering culture around an ICE vehicle seems much more likely to produce a string of individually reasonable, collectively dangerous, "c'mon, it's just one little 12v system" requests that get bolted onto a fairly antique battery without too much broader thought; while analogous feature demands in a fully electric vehicle will either be judged high energy enough to potentially get brought into the high voltage wiring(which, barring gross negligence across the design is treated like it can and will kill you) or totaled in to some low voltage system budget that will be handled by a DC-DC converter designed with actual care because going from 600v to 12v isn't something you do as casually as just slapping another 12v requirement in parallel with the other stuff on the 12v battery and calling it good.
Re:Just numbers, or some culture? (Score:5, Interesting)
The 12V batteries in EVs are much smaller because they don't need to provide cranking amps. They are just there to run the 12V systems, and are topped by by a DC-DC converter from the traction battery.
Of course they can often still provide quite a bit of current for things like heating/heated seats/window defog.
The traction battery is only connected to the DC-DC converter, the charger, and the motors. And there are cut-off for all of them. The motors aren't connected when you are parked, and the charger is only connected when charging/doing vehicle to load.
The switch thing sounds more like the switch gets stuck engaged and doesn't cut out at the limit of the seat's movement, causing the motor to overheat. But generally speaking EVs catch fire less than fossils. There is no hot engine full of flammable liquid and explosions, for a start. When you park over leaves, there is nothing hot enough to ignite them on the underside of the car. Nothing needs active cooling to avoid catching fire - the traction battery cooling is to make it last longer and charge faster, if it fails it's not going to ignite and the BMS will limit power when it gets too warm.