Scroll Burned in 79 AD Volcanic Eruption Finally Deciphered Using AI (smithsonianmag.com)
- Reference: 0184143248
- News link: https://science.slashdot.org/story/26/06/27/1825220/scroll-burned-in-79-ad-volcanic-eruption-finally-deciphered-using-ai
- Source link: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/scientists-have-deciphered-the-surviving-fragments-of-a-2000-year-old-philosophical-treatise-frozen-in-time-by-mount-vesuvius-eruption-180989036/
"But when scholars tried to unroll them, the carbonized manuscripts crumbled to dust."
> Every generation that followed faced the same dilemma: They could wait for technology to advance, abandoning hope of reading the ancient texts in their own lifetime. Or they could try to open the scrolls themselves — and risk destroying them.
>
> In recent years, researchers have settled on a third option. Using advanced imaging and artificial intelligence, they're [4] [5]deciphering the scrolls without needing to unroll them at all.
>
> The [6]Vesuvius Challenge has accelerated the process by turning it into a public competition, complete with cash prizes. In 2023, a student won $40,000 for deciphering [7]a single word — "purple" — from an unopened scroll. Later, contestants would identify [8]2,000 Greek characters from one scroll ($700,000) and [9]the title of another ($60,000). Now, for the very first time, researchers have recovered [10]all surviving text from a single scroll. The nearly five-foot-long segment includes roughly 20 columns of ancient Greek philosophy, accessible for the first time in nearly 2,000 years.
"The tech actually does look like magic, but it's not," [11]Brent Seales , a computer scientist at the University of Kentucky, said at a [12]press conference . (The article points out that Seales partnered with two Silicon Valley investors in 2023 to launch the Vesuvius Challenge, and is now hailing "the restoration of lost voices from the ancient world."
> Seales has been working on virtually unwrapping the scrolls since the early 2000s. The process involved imaging the bundles of papyrus using technology similar to CT scanners, isolating thin layers and then stitching them together.... "We've developed a systematic and a repeatable approach," Seales told the audience. "Now it's only a matter of time until we read all of the scrolls."
[1] https://www.herculaneum.ox.ac.uk/index.php/papyri/
[2] https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/scientists-have-deciphered-the-surviving-fragments-of-a-2000-year-old-philosophical-treatise-frozen-in-time-by-mount-vesuvius-eruption-180989036/
[3] https://www.herculaneum.ox.ac.uk/index.php/the-story-of-herculaneum/
[4] https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/buried-ash-vesuvius-scrolls-are-being-read-new-xray-technique-180969358/
[5] https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/buried-ash-vesuvius-scrolls-are-being-read-new-xray-technique-180969358/
[6] https://scrollprize.org/
[7] https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/this-21-year-old-used-ai-to-decipher-text-from-a-scroll-that-hasnt-been-read-in-2000-years-180983084/
[8] https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/three-students-decipher-first-passages-2000-year-old-scroll-burned-vesuvius-eruption-180983738/
[9] https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/these-ancient-scrolls-have-been-a-tantalizing-mystery-for-2000-years-researchers-just-deciphered-a-title-for-the-first-time-180986639/
[10] https://scrollprize.org/firstscroll
[11] https://engr.uky.edu/people/brent-seales
[12] https://engr.uky.edu/herculaneum
How will our encrypted USB devices be read? (Score:2)
In 2000 years time, will archaeologists be trying to decipher our encrypted drives?
Re: How will our encrypted USB devices be read? (Score:2)
Were hieroglyphs just family vacay pics.
Re: (Score:2)
Electronic drives from 40 years ago have already degraded to the point of being unreadable today, except with highly specialized equipment. There is no chance any trace of our digital world will be readable electronically in the far future.
At best you might get a mysterious single damaged disk drive, not unlike the [1]Antikythera mechanism [wikipedia.org]. But unlike Antikythera, deciphering the physical mechanism is not enough, archaeologists will have to figure out the magnetic encoding, perform error correction on the deg
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antikythera_mechanism
AI or Machine Learning? (Score:3)
After reading the Smithsonian Article, I come away thinking that Seales is using conventional machine learning techniques that the article's author has conflated into the buzzword of the day, artificial intelligence. Here's the quote containing the single reference to artificial intelligence in the entire article:
> Seales has lately been enhancing his technique, by using artificial intelligence to train his software to recognize subtle differences in texture between papyrus and ink. He plans to combine such machine learning and X-ray fluorescence to produce the clearest possible text. In the future, “it’ll all be automated,” he predicts. “Put it in the scanner and it will all just unfurl.”
What's the difference? (Score:2)
Seales is using conventional machine learning techniques that the article's author has conflated into the buzzword of the day, artificial intelligence.
Machine Learning *is* an AI technique. Artificial Intelligence has always been an umbrella imprecise word to define a large class of very different algorithms, with the only trait in common that the programmer doesn't know a precise sequence of steps to find the solution but rather the data-driven program explores the inputs to try and find useful results.
Say
Re: (Score:2)
It's not wrong, but it isn't right either. AI has gone through several boom bust cycles since the first neural network was invented in the late 1950s, and no doubt will go through several more in the next 80 years. Currently we call everything AI because it allows money to flow into projects by linking them with the stratospheric stock valuations of AI tech companies. Success loves company and all that. Conversely, when the next bust cycle hits, AI will become a dirty word and projects will go out of their
Deciphering documents you can't view first-hand? (Score:2)
Seems like perfect circumstances for using hallucination-prone techniques!
#whatcouldpossiblygowrong
Re: (Score:2)
The page clearly says "Klaatu, verata, nictcugh"
From the past (Score:2)
Fascinating, when could we read the scroll?
There are also lots of artefacts from the last century lost. Video games from the 1980s.
One could recreate music by optical 3D scanning shellac records and combining different prints to eliminate the noise. The quality gets better. Just image a new scan of Metropolis negative with current technology Or Robert Johnson even better than in the Centennial edition..
Re: (Score:2)
> Video games from the 1980s.
Probably not all of them, but it is surprising how many ROM images exist out there and how available emulators are to run them on modern computers, if you look hard enough.
I've seen every game I ever played on my C=64, and I've seen a lot more for every console I've ever heard of except ColicoVision. I assume those exist as well, somewhere.
Damnit (Score:2)
> Now, for the very first time, researchers have recovered [1]all surviving text [scrollprize.org] from a single scroll.
I was betting on one of [2]these [fandom.com] ... :-)
[1] https://scrollprize.org/firstscroll
[2] https://rogue-1985.fandom.com/wiki/Scrolls
I deciphered one too (Score:2)
LISTA EMENDORUM
(Marcus needs to pick up before Livia kills him)
Garum (the good Pompeian stuff, NOT that cheap Lusitanian rubbish)
More garum (you can never have enough garum)
Olive oil, 1 amphora (check for watering down, that crook at the forum did it last time)
Bread, 3 loaves (the ones without the sawdust)
Dormice, 12, fattened (Decimus is coming for dinner, the pretentious bastard)
Flamingo tongues (see above re: Decimus)
Posca for the slaves (vinegar will do, stretch it)
Wine, Falernian if we can afford it, C
Output (Score:2)
"Warning from the Star Visitors: don't entrust society with mechanized thinking devices."
The bad news... (Score:2)
...is that after reading the scrolls we can confirm what we already knew, that these people were stunningly ignorant by today's standards. They don't have anything to say to us.
Maybe future scrolls will be better... (Score:2)
Turns out this one was a CVS receipt.
Let me guess (Score:2)
It said âoeIn case of fire, use stairsâ. (Yes, I know elevators were not yet invented, that is the joke)
Re: Let me guess (Score:2)
It said in case of fire, use stairs.
Re: Let me guess (Score:2)
Or more like in case of volcano, use stairs.
Re: (Score:2)
Nope:
Be sure to drink your Ovaltine.
Re: Let me guess (Score:2)
Thanks for taking time from yelling at kids to get off yo mamas lawn to post this.
Re: (Score:2)
Elevators had been invented and were already used by the Romans in various places.
However, it would be unlikely that these warnings would have existed in their apartment buildings (insulae). The risk of fire was extremely high compared to today (open flames used everywhere), and the well off residents certainly wouldn't have lived in penthouses encumbered by stairs. The most desirable apartments were actually located at ground floor, which was easier to run out of. The top floors were generally occupied by