BYD To Install Thousands of 5-Minute EV Chargers Across Europe
- Reference: 0183737466
- News link: https://hardware.slashdot.org/story/26/06/10/1728212/byd-to-install-thousands-of-5-minute-ev-chargers-across-europe
- Source link:
> At an estimated cost of 580,000 euros (about $670,000) per charger according to the [2]Financial Times , that would mean a total spend of roughly $2 billion to install the network. The 1,500kW charging stations are significantly more powerful than Tesla's 500kW V4 Superchargers, though Tesla already has 20,000 chargers installed in Europe. BYD, which has been steadily overtaking Tesla in global sales, says its chargers shouldn't add undue strain to the energy grid, as they'll charge cars from batteries which can be topped up overnight.
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> Any car with a standard CCS charge port can use the Flash Chargers, though only BYD cars equipped with the company's new Blade Battery can hit the top speeds. Right now there's only one of those in Europe, the 115,000 euros ($133,000) Denza Z9 GT -- it charges to 70 percent in five minutes on the new chargers.
[1] https://www.theverge.com/transportation/947553/byd-flash-chargers-uk-europe-ev-blade-battery
[2] https://www.ft.com/content/6e8c7f42-e7b1-40cf-814c-8f4d764a8f30?syn-25a6b1a6=1
how are they managing the heat? (Score:2)
Usually rapid chargers produce quite a bit of heat in the battery, how are they managing this?
I assume the EV stays turned on and runs a cooling loop and blasts hot air out a radiator somewhere, but even that has to have its limits?
Re: (Score:2)
Modern batteries are about 95% efficient at charging. So at 1500kW you're looking at dissipating about 75kW (100hp).
A 100hp gasoline engine needs to dissipate around 250hp of heat energy. In other words, cooling an EV is completely trivial compared to cooling an ICE car.
Re: (Score:2)
Except the battery is under the flesh bags in the seats who dislike a 40C ass baking in all but the coldest of conditions. A 100HP motor can move a shit ton of air over itself with a 45cm fan at 1800RPM stealing 3HP, and it is 5% of total aero drag while moving at 5 to 100km/hr with the fan turned off.
Re: (Score:2)
75kW is a lot of heat. Think about the heat from a 100w light bulb (99% of which is heat) Now stack 750 of them and feel the sun!
Also, this car isn't flying down the freeway, forcing massive amounts of air through the radiator to cool it. This one's parked, and only has the forced airflow of the radiator's fan to keep it from melting into goo.
But that 75kW is talking about the charger, which may be able to handle more than one vehicle, or larger vehicles like EV trucks and busses, so the number is likely
Re: how are they managing the heat? (Score:2)
The cars are already available, including chargers, so you might want to check out reviews.
Dont worry it will be over soon (Score:2)
Your lights dim when I charge? Sorry! I'll be done in 5 minutes.
Planning permissions? (Score:2)
Does everywhere BYD plan to site these have the power availability?
Re: (Score:2)
I think it's a pretty safe bet that when dropping 2/3 of a million USD per charger on a whole bank of chargers that they'll do a enough planning with the power companies and regulators to make sure they work.
Re:Planning permissions? (Score:4, Informative)
Summary says it has an onboard battery so it'll buffer the local grid itself.
Re: (Score:1)
So... suck a bunch of power from the grid overnight, during the day those batteries get run down, and then either the charger switches over to grid during peak hours, or the charger disables itself until the battery charges back up... if it's charging the battery from grid while it's also charging the BEV from the grid, gonna need some infrastructure to support all that switching at the transfer switch, not to mention power capacity.
Re: (Score:2)
The capacity per car isn't changing much. So that battery is just evening out how quick each car charges and maybe that there's some car getting chargers because they don't have to wait.
I've been at charging stations with 24 superchargers that don't even have this new tech to level things out. So probably not going to be the issue you are imagining here. And if they are limited on power, the worst thing that's going to happen is that charging slows down to that lower level, not a biggie to just Supercharge
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That's what buffering means yeah, you can exceed the capacity of a buffer in software or chemistry and then what happens and if it is a problem depends on the rest of the situation. Lots of employers, like mine, have free charging at work now, too, it washes out in the rest of the electricity a big campus consumes during the day.
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Apparently the only need a connection of about 500kW, the rest is somehow done with batteries
simply can't post an article without errors (Score:3)
"The 1,500kW charging stations are significantly more powerful than Tesla's 500kW V4 Superchargers, though Tesla already has 20,000 chargers installed in Europe."
20,000 chargers, NONE of which are 500KW. Tesla has NO 500KW chargers in Europe.
Great job, BeauHD. That's what you get from stealing articles from the Verge.
Re: (Score:2)
Slashdot is not a primary source but a news aggregator, which quotes submitted articles. Adding the extra context seems reasonable, but being that upset at the editor over quoting text from the primary article seems like a pretty severe overreaction.
If you think quoting new sources is stealing, you might want not want to hang out on a news aggregator in the first place...
Another app (Score:1)
Another app, another account, more random issues with authorization and connectivity - nice! I already have 11 charging apps on my phone that need updating, password resetting, etc.
The reason my next EV is a Tesla.
Re: (Score:3)
I just pay with card. No need to bother with apps anymore.
You know, as it's now mandatory in EU to have all new fast charging stations to have card payment capability and old ones have to be retrofitted. The regular AC EVSE (up to 22 kW) are exempt and do not need a card reader.
Maybe in the future we can have plug'n'charge that is interoperable (CCS standard definitely allows for it), so you'd just enter the credit card info once into your car.
Haven't used an app to pay for fast charging for the past two ye
Re: (Score:2)
There's nothing stopping you from solely charging at Tesla chargers already. A [1]NACS / CCS adapter is only $170 [ev-lectron.com]. So if you want to just charge at Tesla chargers regardless of your car or adapters there's not much of an issue outside of how annoyingly short the cords are.
My personal experience however is that Tesla chargers are the most expensive and the convenience of having more options outweighs the minor hassle of an extra phone app. Having to drive even 20 minutes out of the way on a road trip would be w
[1] https://ev-lectron.com/products/lectron-vortex-plug-tesla-supercharger-nacs-to-ccs-adapter
Re: (Score:2)
Musks "empire" is also linked to the US military.
And he is certainly not trust worthy.
Just waiting to see how many people lose everything due to the grossly over hyped, over priced IPO. How many pension funds get screwed
Who is this stupid? (Score:2)
Let me summarize BYD's overall strategy: Who gives a shit if it fails, we already have your money. Fuck your battery pack. It's defectively built rolling spyware with hidden killswitches anyway. We'll charge it at a million amps. Who cares? If it sells our garbage cars, the billionaires back in China don't care about brand reputation.
So is it really a good idea (Score:2, Interesting)
To have a huge part of your infrastructure owned and operated and capable of being remotely disabled by a rather brutal dictatorship?
I mean I get it, electric car go vroom! But I feel like I shouldn't have to explain why allowing this is a bad idea.
Realistically I understand that the ruling elite of Europe gets along just fine with the ruling elite of China just like America gets along just fine with the ruling elite of Saudi Arabia despite them being a brutal dictatorship and America ostensibly bei
Re: (Score:2)
On the one hand, probably not, on the other, they're dependent on foreign oil for transportation otherwise and they can presumably run some domestically owned EV charging infrastructure in parallel without much issue.
Re: (Score:2)
Are you afraid of free markets?
"Honestly it's just another example of how we as a species aren't really built for or capable of navigating a global geopolitical landscape."
We as a species are not built at all, we are a product of evolution. And what does an arbitrary size, "global geopolitical landscape", have to do with it? We as a species are driven by conflicting goals because that aided our survival.
"We are not built for social structures this large and complex we're supposed to be in a group of about
Disincentive (Score:4, Insightful)
But also factor in a severe financial disincentive where they'd kill the trust in one of their companies that's raking in the money. Not like there won't be other CCS compatible charging stations either or use a converter to use the Tesla network. Which is why Open Standards, competition, global commerce are good and keep the peace.
If we get to that point that they turn off their chargers, we're already heading towards WW3 and all bets are off.
Re: (Score:2)
You don't need a converter to use Tesla Superchargers. In EU, Tesla uses CCS2 (as does pretty much everyone else, because EU made a regulation forcing that connector back in 2014).
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But the point still stands on the more global scale that adapters make incompatible charging networks a total non-issue. So as long as there's are other stations, one network shutting down isn't a big deal.
Re: (Score:2)
> To have a huge part of your infrastructure owned and operated and capable of being remotely disabled by a rather brutal dictatorship?
Good thing there are no brutal dictatorships that have ever threatened to cut off our oil supply!
Re: (Score:2)
Are there software kill switches in chargers, that cannot be bypassed even if you control the hardware (honest question)? If there is, I get the concern. If not, aren't these basically battery systems drawing power from the grid that an European government owns, and push comes to shove, the local military could take ownership?
Re: So is it really a good idea (Score:2)
Almost aÄl public chargers are networked, as they need the ability to perform billing. They could also take an OTA firmware upgrade that could brick them, in theory.
Re: (Score:2)
No it's not. Fortunately this is not a scenario that exists outside of your own head. BYD could invest 20x as much as they are talking about here and they'd be a completely minor player in EV charging infrastructure.
> I mean I get it, electric car go vroom! But I feel like I shouldn't have to explain why allowing this is a bad idea.
I don't think it's a good idea you explain it. It may just show how little you understand about EV charging infrastructure in Europe.
Re: So is it really a good idea (Score:1)
When I read your first paragraph I thought you were talking about America! Truly!
Re: (Score:2)
> To have a huge part of your infrastructure owned and operated and capable of being remotely disabled by a rather brutal dictatorship?
It is fine in a (truly) free market where there are dozens of actors from different parts of the world. There are the local actors, there is Tesla, now BYD. This diversity creates resilience. The more the independent actors, the less an individual actor is able to collapse the infrastructure.
Re: (Score:2)
So... basically like having US infrastructure in the EU then ?
The USA has been caught multiple times abusing that infrastructure
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I"m less concerned about that than about upkeep & regular maintenance.
One of the great disappointments of NorthAm charging networks is how lackluster the reliability has been even for extensive ones like Electrify America which was backed by VW money. Afaik only Tesla has done a much better than average job of charger maintenance