Small Town Fights Over Flock's AI-Enhanced Network of License Plate-Reading Cameras (wnyt.com)
- Reference: 0183264435
- News link: https://yro.slashdot.org/story/26/05/17/2236232/small-town-fights-over-flocks-ai-enhanced-network-of-license-plate-reading-cameras
- Source link: https://wnyt.com/top-stories/dispute-between-city-council-mayor-over-flock-cameras-in-troy/
> When Troy's contract came up for renewal, Mayor Carmella Mantello wanted to keep paying Flock and the council paused payments. The mayor then issued a public safety emergency declaration to keep the license plate readers active. The council has filed a lawsuit to overturn that..."If this illegal emergency order is left unchallenged, we give this mayor and any future mayor regardless of their political party or ideology, unchecked authority to issue an emergency declaration whenever they disagree with the council on any issue," [said Troy council president Sue Steele].
"The technology that's in place today is not the technology of six years ago," council president Steele [3]told another local news station . "We have AI, we have rapidly changing and advancing technology. So that begs the need for regulations to protect certain data." The [4]American Civil Liberties Union warns that Flock will use AI to let law enforcement search its trove of videos.
> But "Listen, if it was infringing on people's rights, people's liberties, we'd be the first to get rid of it. We have safeguards in place," [mayor] Mantello responded. Mantello noted that data captured by Troy's Flock cameras is only being shared with other local municipalities.
>
> Steele said the data had been shared nationally until she and other elected officials raised concerns. "As far as sharing with local law enforcement, that's necessary in the normal course of investigations. The concern is what Flock does with this data: sharing it with ICE, for instance, and other nefarious outlets," Steele said.
As the debate continues over the small city's 26 Flock cameras, a [5]columnist in Albany wrote that "it's a good thing. We should be asking questions about the growing surveillance state. We should be debating whether this is the future we want."
> As [6]the American Civil Liberties Union noted , [Flock] has quietly built a broad mass-surveillance infrastructure, with cameras installed in 5,000 communities around the country, and is continually expanding how that network is used. Did we ask for that? Did we vote for it? Not really. The cameras have been installed in municipality after municipality, mostly with little discussion or controversy, which makes us like the proverbial frogs who didn't notice the water getting warmer until it was boiling. Suddenly, surveillance cameras are everywhere; we're always being watched...
>
> [T]he City Council's Democratic majority is [7]considering legislation that, among other steps, would require that data collected by the cameras be generally deleted after 48 hours and that the city be more transparent about how the cameras are used.
The controversy and pushback [8]continues to draw local coverage . The mayor complains the proposed rules restricts the cameras "almost exclusively to cases involving individuals with outstanding felony arrest warrants or situations where officers can determine in advance that an incident will result in a felony charge... This is beyond reckless."
But the Albany columnist still argues many of America's Flock cameras [9]are unnecessary and are "being installed just because... It's worth considering where this might lead and whether the future we're installing is the future we want."
[1] https://cbs6albany.com/news/local/troy-conviction-lawsuit-and-elected-officials-on-flock-cameras
[2] https://wnyt.com/top-stories/dispute-between-city-council-mayor-over-flock-cameras-in-troy/
[3] https://cbs6albany.com/news/local/troy-conviction-lawsuit-and-elected-officials-on-flock-cameras
[4] https://www.aclu.org/news/privacy-technology/flock-roundup
[5] https://www.timesunion.com/churchill/article/churchill-troy-get-flock-out-22252986.php
[6] https://www.aclu.org/news/privacy-technology/flock-roundup
[7] https://www.troyny.gov/AgendaCenter/ViewFile/ArchivedAgenda/_05072026-1527?packet=true
[8] https://spectrumlocalnews.com/nys/capital-region/news/2026/05/04/troy-council-proposes-law-to-regulate-license-plate-camera-readers-
[9] https://www.timesunion.com/churchill/article/churchill-troy-get-flock-out-22252986.php
Kickbacks maybe? (Score:4, Insightful)
Seems like there is more to this story, maybe Flock is giving the mayor a 'small' kickback.
And once you share the data, even with other local towns, then you lose control of the data and have to assume it's going to places you shouldn't trust.
Re: (Score:2)
I certainly wouldn't bet on 100% squeaky clean behavior from Flock; but it's probably also worth looking at his relationship with the local cops and their relationship either with the vendor or with other entities that have an interest in the flock data.
I don't think that this is particularly uncommon; but going by the City of Troy's budget; it looks like the cops are kind of a big deal. Over a quarter of the budget(~27million out of 90 million); and the chief, deputy chief, assistant chief, and police c
Flock is such a bad name (Score:2)
It makes me think of getting shit on by seagulls and dive-bombed for my french fries.
Re: (Score:2)
> How can it be abused? I don't get it.
Really? You can't imagine a single way that a corporation or the government could abuse the ability to identify, track, and instantly locate any person at any time for any reason? Nothing at all, huh?
> yet I never heard of one case of a street camera being used to hurt someone let alone end lives
[1]https://www.businessinsider.co... [businessinsider.com]
[2]https://www.yahoo.com/news/cou... [yahoo.com]
[3]https://coloradosun.com/2025/1... [coloradosun.com]
[4]https://www.dailyjournal.com/a... [dailyjournal.com]
[5]https://www.americanpartisan.o... [americanpartisan.org]
Those
[1] https://www.businessinsider.com/flock-safety-alpr-cameras-misreads-2026-3
[2] https://www.yahoo.com/news/couple-handcuffed-morristown-due-license-220727432.html
[3] https://coloradosun.com/2025/11/11/columbine-valley-police-officer-flock-disciplinary-action/
[4] https://www.dailyjournal.com/article/390681-courts-deciding-limits-of-license-plate-reader-surveillance-in-california
[5] https://www.americanpartisan.org/2024/03/cameras-placed-all-over-are-recording-drivers-license-plates-whos-watching-and-should-we-worry/
Everyone knows these are bad news right? (Score:3)
Catching the occasional murderer isn't worth a 24/7 super surveillance Network right?
The thing is people who think that it is worth it aren't going to speak up here or even look at the comments.
One of the things I'm seeing among the right wing is that they know that their beliefs are wrong and that they will be hurt by implementing them but they want them so badly that they are withdrawing into safe spaces where their never challenged.
And I mean never challenged. Not even for a brief second. Because the right wing has become so cartoonishly evil that the slightest challenge breaks the spell like The emperor's New clothes.
You can't reach them anymore. Maybe their families could but they've cut themselves off from their families too. It's why people keep calling the right wing a cult.
Re: (Score:2)
> they will be hurt by implementing them
How so?
> You can't reach them anymore.
We're here. Make your point. And have it make sense.
Posted by one who is NOT a member of Murderers and Drug Dealers Against Flock Cameras.
Re: (Score:2)
I think vehicular homicide at most, is punishing someone over a mistake worth your privacy? Not mine.
Re: (Score:2)
Then you had better stay out of public spaces. Because you have no expectation of privacy there.
Re: (Score:2)
Maybe I will!
Since I've got you (Score:2)
Why did you make a pedophile president of the United States?
Anyway as for how it'll be turned against you, have you not noticed all your civil rights being eroded? Like how did gerrymandering is making it so they don't need to care about how you vote anymore. Eventually you're going to want to try to do something more radical like protest or just some generic violence and none of that's going to work because with a 24/7 surveillance state you won't be able to use any of the traditional mechanisms for de
Re: (Score:2)
You're assuming that everyone is one extreme or the other. And not only is this wrong, there aren't only two sides, no matter what the news says.
OTOH, Flock *seems* to be an example of the "benefits of the surveillance state". I.e., we only hear about the generally approved of uses. If you were to believe that those were the only uses, I'd think you a simpleton. And it's impossible for me to make a decision that they're a good thing without knowing what those other uses are.
Re: (Score:1)
You could say exactly the same thing about the left. But I agree with you that fishing out the occasional murderer is not worth the price of 24/7 surveillance.
Re: (Score:2)
I'm not so sure the issue is black and white. Yes, abuse is possible, such as using plate readers on private property. But how is taking pictures of license plates on public roads, an invasion of privacy? You realize that toll booths also read license plates. Where is the outcry? And *those* license plate readers are merely for catching toll cheats, nothing so serious as violent crime.
BTW I am not a Republican. But I don't think you have to be one, to believe that it's OK to track what goes on on public roa
The problem is (Score:2)
The problem is that what Flock is doing is not very hard to accomplish these days. Anyone can mount an ordinary IP security camera in a place that has a good view of a street, and pass all or some of the image stream along to some pretty inexpensive AI for analysis. AI that's capable of picking out license plate numbers and all other identifying features of the vehicle.
Flock has a nice solar+battery+cellular internet package for this that they mount just above easy vandalism height. It is well designed and
Re: (Score:2)
> Anyone can mount an ordinary IP security camera in a place that has a good view of a street
Well, I'm skeptical. I have a 2K doorbell camera, and it can definitely not read license plates of cars in my cul-de-sac, which is only about 20 feet from my front door.
2nd Amendment folks (Score:2)
Would be a shame if a few of those cameras were used for target practice.
City (Score:1)
Troy, N.Y. is a city, not a town, both by the official standards of New York State and the common understanding of what population constitutes a city. What population is needed to qualify as a small town is fuzzy, but the upper limit might be 1,000 or 2,000.
Declare emergency, claim unchecked powers (Score:1, Insightful)
This is chapter and verse from the MAGA playbook.