That would be OK if a car had both working together.

> Lol, the 621-mile and the 7-minute charging battery are two different batteries.

Yeah, the article is pure slop, whether human or AI.

> its latest Qilin battery -- a high-energy-density pack often paired with nickel manganese cobalt (NMC) cells for long range and improved space efficiency -- can deliver a 1,000-km (621-mile) driving range.

"often paired with"? like the pack can exist independent of cells? or it can use different cells but have the same specs? and no capacities or charging rates (in watts) mentioned anywhere. or degradation profile.

Anyway, still probably interesting incremental progress but impossible to know what from the press release.

> Lol, the 621-mile and the 7-minute charging battery are two different batteries.

I'm annoyed more by their use of miles as a measure of battery capacity. I own an EV and the range varies quite a bit depending on what speed the traffic is flowing at, and the climate control settings. On a 70MPH highway with the heat on, I can easily drop down to 2.5 miles per kWh. That's 5/8 of my car's EPA rated range. Of course, here in Florida needing heat is a rare thing, and traffic is usually pretty bad (which in an EV is actually good for efficiency), so I often actually exceed the 4 miles per kWh EPA rating.

Batteries don't hold miles, they hold watt-hours.

> Lol, the 621-mile and the 7-minute charging battery are two different batteries.

I'm more interested in knowing if the car is also that long. :-)

And neither of them are going into actual production cars.

First time dealing with "this how we do marketing in PRC"?

Well you had to swap out the first battery pack after the fast charge one lit on fire while charging at 100000000 Amps, obviously. I'm more angry that they didn't accurately say 621-mile driving range if the onboard spyware doesn't determine that you said something rude about the Chinese communist party on your connected smartphone. Otherwise, you're not going anywhere.

the douchebag factor that came with owning an EV.

What was that?

> Now how about finding a way to do it with silicon-based rather than lithium-based batteries so that we're not using costly mines to create the batteries?

Why silicon rather than sodium?

Sodium is right under lithium in Group 1.

> The company also announced plans to begin mass delivery of sodium-ion batteries in the fourth quarter. Sodium-ion technology is seen as a lower-cost alternative that could reduce dependence on lithium, cobalt, and nickel.

> The general public used to also have a problem with the douchebag factor that came with owning an EV. Now we're going in the right direction.

The only douchebag factor for EVs was the people who considered EV drivers douchebags for daring to not have interests in the same luddite approach as them.

> A 7 minute stop is getting close to the same amount of time it takes to fill up a gas tank and the equivalent time to going into a convenience store to get something while you're pumping gas.

The average car spends 12 minutes on a petrol station forecourt. (I was part of a team which analysed the behaviour of some >2000 highway service stations based on camera footage. We tracked the time a license plate was at a stop. 7 minute is a irrelevant target by people who have not looked at actual human behaviour. There's no need to charge that f

They are focusing on innovating. Sure some numbers are probably fudged / inflated. But overall, they're kicking the western world arses when it comes to PV, EV and battery tech.

When gas hits $10 there may be too much pressure to bring in BYD to stop it. At least atomic energy isn't more sensitive to global price shocks than it needs to be (EPA being the champion of high energy prices).

Automated lights-out factories are a total game changer and basically nobody cares if domestic auto workers lose their jobs due to sales collapse or to automation. It didn't have to be this way but Kissinger sold out Middle America so GM became a sales tactic for GMAC loans. We'd need a time machi

> There's a reason domestic auto makers are terrified of China.

Yeah, China is trying to lock up rare earth and require them to buy batteries from China. That is the real fear. Without their own ability to manufacture batteries at scale they can't hope to compete.

Things with 621 on the name do tend to do dog-and-pony shows alright

I actually tried to read the source story but on mobile without adblock something like 90% of my screen was covered by ads.

> if this is a dog-and-pony show, and if there's nothing rigging the numbers. Because these are *really* good numbers.

I'm curious if these batteries are safe enough to leave in an attached garage or should the car be kept in a detached car port for safety.

> ...how many times you can do a 7-minute charge on the battery before it dies?

> Also, there's no mention of how much capacity the 7-minute charge battery actually has, so the "7 minutes for 10%->98%" lacks the context to be useful.

> Finally, if the capacity is meaningful, what specification of charger does it need to reach these numbers?

a lot. a better version of the announcement:

> CATL stated the pack supports an equivalent 10C and peak 15C charging rate, with 10% to 80% completed in three minutes and 44 seconds, and 10% to 35% in a minute.

> A 10C rating indicates a battery can safely charge or discharge at a current ten times its rated capacity, enabling a full charge or discharge in roughly six minutes.

> CATL added that at 30C, charging from 20% to 98% takes about nine minutes.

> The company said capacity retention remains above 90% after 1,000 full cycles, and that the Shenxing design tackles heat through lower heat generation, improved thermal propagation and more precise control.

[1]https://autos.yahoo.com/ev-and... [yahoo.com]

[1] https://autos.yahoo.com/ev-and-future-tech/articles/catl-unveils-six-minute-ev-113242805.html

No, kWh is not a better measure. They have a battery that can charge in 7 mins. You can then add as many of them in parallel as you want.

If you insist on another metric, then gravimetric and volumetric density would be interesting.

Even worse, a lot of people prefer underground cables.

You'll have to run active cooling lines with those wires underground. And guess how often active cooling will fail, resulting in need to keep digging those cables up?

This is made worse by the "15 minute city" push which ensures that home charging is just not going to be a thing in any meaningful capacity.

Most of these fast chargers have grid tie batteries on site. Take for example a Tesla super charger station that can pump out a quarter of a mega watt per charging bay and you have 20 bays. The local infrastructure likely couldn't support this without upgrades. Instead they have a grid tie battery onsite that slowly charges or charges during low demand periods, Then they can dump 5 mega watts into 20 populated charging bays.

eh peak 500kw is probably as high as we're likely to get with current charger standards but even there apparently it tends to be paired with local battery storage to smooth grid demand.

But yeah, it's still a LOT of power to deliver. I suspect there will be fewer overall stations working at higher duty cycles, but then if you add queuing time at Costco electron station it somewhat defeats the purpose of the very fast charging...

> Imagine giant transmission lines criss-crossing the city in order to just feed these charging stations.

Imagine giant semi-trucks with trailers full of highly flammable liquid, stopping at gas stations to deliver energy so that motorists can fill their vehicles. Imagine, wars fought over access to cheap materials to create those liquids. Imagine, huge tax subsidies given to support the profit of the companies that dig up this liquid and turn it into usable energy.

It's only nonsense until it becomes commonplace, and then our brains accept it as normal.

That's a misrepresentation of the so-called utopian dream though, the actual dream is that most folks charge their cars at their homes with regular 20-40A house power.

30A @ 240V is not uncommon for most American homes to have or be installed and that ~5kW is more than enough to cover like 90% of peoples commutes and daily driving by just plugging the car in overnight.

Electric charging infrastructure doesn't need to and should not mirror petrol infrastructure.

And here it pays off to have good infrastructure. Something the US never understood. This will not be an issue in the actually developed part of the western world. For example, we have 30kV lines under the curb here, each one can deliver something like 20-50MW right there. Per cable.

"... think of what a typical neighborhood corner charging station would look like."

It will look like what it does now. High speed DC charging is not needed for "neighborhood corners". The real problem is that only a minority of the population can charge at home, with half the population not owning a home. EVs cannot succeed if everyone relies on DC charging for daily use, your imagined solution is stillborn.

It is already happening all over the world.

Just not in your yahoo country.

In most countries, no one "replaces" a gasoline car. They phase it out and by a new car. 50% of the new car decisions are electric.

People who never had a car, most of all times by electric.

In ten years a used non electric car is unsellable.

> think of what a typical neighborhood corner charging station would look like

EVs do not fast charge in neighbourhood corners. You're applying gasoline vehicle level thinking to a car that doesn't depend on being filled with gasoline. EVs have fast charging and destination charging. Your neighbourhood falls under the latter, slow L2 chargers. Fast chargers will only ever exist in arterials because no one actually would use an EV fast charger in a neighbourhood when they can plug into a normal charger for 1/4 of the cost.

Jesus Christ on a bike, you people are so stupid.

1. You don’t need to use flash charging at a neighbourhood corner charging station. That would be idiotic. You just put these on strategic highways that have lots of travellers going long distances. In neighbourhoods, you use chargers that provide a charge overnight, or if you’re really feeling fancy, in an hour or two, because that’s the use case.

2. You don’t supply all the power directly on demand. That would be idiotic. You use a tr