System76 Comments On Recent Age Verification Laws (phoronix.com)
- Reference: 0180919938
- News link: https://tech.slashdot.org/story/26/03/06/1851235/system76-comments-on-recent-age-verification-laws
- Source link: https://www.phoronix.com/news/System76-Age-Verification-Laws
"System76's position is interesting given that they sell Linux-loaded desktops, workstations and laptops plus being an operating system vendor with their in-house Pop!_OS distribution and COSMIC desktop environment," adds Phoronix's Michael Larabel, noting that they're also based out of Colorado. Here's an excerpt from the post:
> "A parent that creates a non-admin account on a computer, sets the age for a child account they create, and hands the computer over is in no different state. The child can install a virtual machine, create an account on the virtual machine and set the age to 18 or over. It's a similar technique to installing a VPN to get around the Great Firewall of China (just consider that for a moment). Or the child can simply re-install the OS and not tell their parents. ... In the case of Colorado's and California's bills, effectiveness is lost. In the case of New York's bill, liberty is lost. In the case of centralized platforms, potential is lost. ... The challenges we face are neither technical nor legal. The only solution is to educate our children about life with digital abundance. Throwing them into the deep end when they're 16 or 18 is too late. It's a wonderful and weird world. Yes, there are dark corners. There always will be. We have to teach our children what to do when they encounter them and we have to trust them."
"We are accustomed to adding operating system features to comply with laws," writes Richell, in closing. "Accessibility features for ADA, and power efficiency settings for Energy Star regulations are two examples. We are a part of this world and we believe in the rule of law. We still hope these laws will be recognized for the folly they are and removed from the books or found unconstitutional."
[1] https://blog.system76.com/post/system76-on-age-verification
[2] https://tech.slashdot.org/story/26/02/26/233213/colorado-lawmakers-push-for-age-verification-at-the-operating-system-level
STOP PLAYING THE GAME (Score:2)
We all know this is a pretext for digital ID. You do not have to play along. You can just refuse it all and say no. You are not a sheep. You are not a slave. You are not cattle. You have agency and free will in this world and in this life. Grow a spine and say "NO, I REFUSE".
Re: (Score:2)
The computer literate know. The rest don't understand what's happening or can't be convinced to care. The grandmas and soccer moms support it because "think of the children" and won't listen to other arguments.
This is all by design. As one person put it, "this isn't about protecting children; it's about identifying dissidents."
.dob (Score:2)
A user account, like having a .bashrc, should have a .dob, containing the user's DOB. This file should be immutable and owned by root, only modifiable by root. Problem solved.
Re: (Score:1)
Still seems like overkill to implement at the Operating System level.. The vast majority of applications available for any given OS, really don't pose a threat to minors. The goal is to regulate access to Porn, Social media, streaming, and the like which are the most common agents of chaos. You don't need age verification for excel, calc, or word. Or far less likely to need. It's really just on the network level that any age restrictions need to be implemented. And really just applies to certain domains, or
Re: (Score:2)
> A user account, like having a .bashrc, should have a .dob, containing the user's DOB. This file should be immutable and owned by root, only modifiable by root. Problem solved.
Which problem - exactly - does that solve?
Re: (Score:2)
Including DOB goes above and beyond what the state of California is demanding. They just demand to report that I'm over 18.
Re: (Score:2)
> They just demand to report that I'm over 18.
For now. The noose will tighten as time goes on.
It's not the same (Score:3)
Shite argument, ADA helps people who potentially couldn't use a system if not for laws. Age verification is a system for privacy invasion hanging onto the coattails of inept parents. Laws should protect children from bad parents. This primarily works by punishing said bad parents not by making the rest of society suffer for their inability. There have always been tools to protect children whilst not perfect are still orders of magnitude better than this implementation.
Re: (Score:2)
> Age verification is a system for...inept parents.
No it isn't. That's just the excuse they use because there are enough gullible people to believe the "think of the children" bullshit. Age verification is a power play to weaken the citizenry. It's corrupt government overreach.
Politicians and clueless and... (Score:2)
...kids are smart and very good at finding workarounds
Really sick of think of the children laws (Score:2)
You can't vote against these because low information voters will get inundated with attack ads against you if you do. They are explicitly crafted to be bad laws that are political poison to vote against.
Usually when you get one of these what you need to do is wait a little bit and let the fervor die down and then you quietly amend them so that they are completely irrelevant. This is how you get so many stupid laws that don't do anything on the books.
Gavin newsome for example has already started tal
Lets assume you want to do this in a private way! (Score:2)
Let's ignore the blanket statement that this is a bad idea, and think about how one might go about solving this problem. Let's also realize there are ways that you could make this robust, not unhackable, just robust.
You install the OS and go to make the user account, some agent will ask for your ID, which could come in various forms, but it just needs to be government approved. The agent will spin up two enclaves, one that's offline and isolated, and another to connect to a government run database of ha
Misses the point. (Score:2, Interesting)
> "A parent that creates a non-admin account on a computer, sets the age for a child account they create, and hands the computer over is in no different state. The child can install a virtual machine, create an account on the virtual machine and set the age to 18 or over. It's a similar technique to installing a VPN to get around the Great Firewall of China (just consider that for a moment). Or the child can simply re-install the OS and not tell their parents. ...
The system does not need to be entirely unbeatable. As so many people here point out, parents still need to parent their kids. Now if you look in on your kid every once in a while you might just notice them doing things like re-installing an OS, running a bunch of VMs etc, and as a parent have an opportunity to ask them some questions about why.
This whole idea that these measures need to be 100% effective to no be entirely useless is just wrong. I am even tempted to think given how much opponents of these
Re:Misses the point. (Score:5, Insightful)
So we're just ignoring the privacy and individual freedom problems with this, with zero to gain for it?
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Alternatively you could look at it as the law striking a not entirely unreasonable balance between the two.
You as user are being asked when you setup an account to assert that you are over the age of majority. You are not being asked for any proof or anything beyond your say so.
As a OS vendor you are being asked to create a facility for users to make this age assertion and provide some API access to it.
Not much a privacy invasion at all really..
On the other hand as parent, your kids probably can't easily w
Re: (Score:3)
> You are not being asked for any proof or anything beyond your say so.
You are incredibly ignorant and naive if you think it will stop there. These are foot-in-the door steps. It's typical first steps of a repressive regime.
Re: (Score:2)
> You as user are being asked when you setup an account to assert that you are over the age of majority. You are not being asked for any proof or anything beyond your say so.
How is this any different than when one creates an account on some site, like Instagram, other than making it everyone's problem rather than just Instagram's and those using their site? Why should people not using social-media sites have to worry about this on their own systems? Perhaps it gives those sites some cover but not sure that would hold up in court.
Re: Misses the point. (Score:1)
Let's forget that you ignored all the actual privacy problems here.
Please kindly explain how the average PC illiterate parent will notice/find installed VMs or other bypass mechanisms?
Re: (Score:1)
What OS will let you install virtualization software without granting root/admin?
None..
Parents don't have to understand all the details ahead of time to say "why do you need my password", etc. Also its non-trivial to install and OS in a VM. It seems trivial to us, but its going to take the average 12 year old with vague instructions from some kid a school a bit of trouble to do so. Yes many will manage, but good parents will still have the opportunity to ask 'what have you been doing with the computer so lo
Re: (Score:2)
But also if you look in on your kid every once in a while you might just notice them doing things like visiting adult websites and using adult apps, rendering this whole thing unnecessary.