Detroit Automakers Take $50 Billion Hit (msn.com)
- Reference: 0180788122
- News link: https://tech.slashdot.org/story/26/02/13/191242/detroit-automakers-take-50-billion-hit
- Source link: https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/other/detroit-automakers-take-50-billion-hit-as-ev-bubble-bursts/ar-AA1WfHi1
U.S. EV sales fell more than 30% in the fourth quarter of 2025 once the credit expired in September, and Congress also eliminated federal fuel-efficiency mandates. More than $20 billion in previously announced investments in EV and battery facilities were canceled last year -- the first net annual decrease in years, according to Atlas Public Policy.
GM has laid off thousands of workers and is converting plants once earmarked for EV trucks and motors to produce gas-powered trucks and V-8 engines. Ford dissolved a joint venture with a South Korean conglomerate to make batteries and now plans to build just one low-cost electric pickup by 2027. Stellantis is unloading its stake in a battery-making business after booking the largest EV-related charge of any automaker so far. Outside the U.S., the trajectory looks different: China's BYD recently overtook Tesla as the world's largest EV seller.
[1] https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/other/detroit-automakers-take-50-billion-hit-as-ev-bubble-bursts/ar-AA1WfHi1
Perfect time to buy stock (Score:2)
Wow, this writedown is the perfect time to buy stock in your favorite automaker.
BRB, it's time for me to buy some F (Ford) stock.
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It had better be for short-term speculation, you're buying stock in a company which even though they were headquartered in Michigan still took 80 years to figure out how to build a car that didn't rust out in three winters. They still can't build a truck that doesn't get stuck in 6 inches of snow unless it has 4-wheel drive and some serious weight in the back.
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HAHAHAHA. And you're comparing it to what other truck? Pickup trucks are pickup trucks. And frankly, Ford has one of the best.
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> Pickup trucks are pickup trucks. And frankly, Ford has one of the best.
I have to admit, they do look quite lovely on the side of the road waiting for a tow.
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I hear you can fit 6 whole grocery bags in the bed!
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I have all the Toyota I want, thanks.
How I'm reading it... (Score:2, Insightful)
Established US automakers that had been in the business for over 100 years couldn't compete with the low-quality EVs getting built by newcomer, Tesla. Let alone the ones coming from China.
Re: How I'm reading it... (Score:4, Interesting)
As a three time Tesla owner, I can state their cars were not low quality. In virtually every possible way they were better than any Big 3 car I ever drove. Owned a 2016 S that I traded in for a 2022 S. Wife had a 2018 3. Both traded in last April.
We ditched our Teslas last year for Ioniq 5's, but that decision had nothing to do with the car quality. I just couldn't keep dealing with the Musk that hovered in the air being a Tesla owner anymore.
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Will Hyundai ever fix the stupidity where you cannot precondition the battery for fast charging without being forced to use the in-dash navigation system? Seems so dumb. It's just a software switch they need to expose.
In general this insistence on putting wheels on a computer really turns me off of EVs, though I really want one. EV makers seem to think that drivers are too stupid to drive without the navigation system on telling them how to drive to their local grocery store (which happens to have a fast
Re: How I'm reading it... (Score:3)
TBH as a owner of EVs since 2012 and an all in owner (no gas left) since 2018, I can say I have no idea. Because I have used L2 chargers for almost everything and think I used super chargers maybe 3 times ever. I haven't used them in the year since I traded in the Tesla's for Ioniq's.
While I have no doubt fast charging can matter. I think the actual need for it is overestimated by non-EV folks.
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We have 3 Teslas in our family. They are good cars. But, we bought them before Musk went insane. We are not likely to ever buy another Tesla. We are not in need of another vehicle anytime soon. Hopefully by the time we do, some other viable options will become available.
If the country ever started allowing the Chinese EVs in, that might just doom the doom the ICE makers for good.
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Who pointed out fraud? Can you point us to some real examples of fraud, something that has not only been "pointed out", but also investigated, proven to be such in a court and lead to real sentences?
Or perhaps you can show us how pointing out this fraud has lead to some verifiable manifestation of its existence, e.g. a massive reduction of the government debt or something?
The very effective people who claimed fraud must have something to show for all that talk, no?
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> As a three time Tesla owner, I can state their cars were not low quality.
Maybe the AC was referring to the body panel fitment issues which seemed to be a thing for awhile. *shrug*
Personally, I just never could get past that everything about the car felt like it was unapologetically designed by a software company.
Re: How I'm reading it... (Score:4, Insightful)
And you would be wrong. As someone who works at vehicle teardowns and evaluations - Tesla allows quality defects through that NO other automaker would even contemplate. They make engineering decisions that would never be considered by other automakers because they result in problems. Glueing on body panels incorrectly. Cracks in their aluminum extrusions. I could keep going. Tesla built at the price point they did by over-advertising and under-building. Their hype machine was second to none. And now, without the electric subsidy and the ability to sell their carbon credits to the big 3, they are essentially exiting the business.
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> As a three time Tesla owner, I can state their cars were not low quality. In virtually every possible way they were better than any Big 3 car I ever drove.
Not exactly a high bar there.
Maybe US automakers should focus on quality (Score:2, Insightful)
Korea, Japan and China have been eating US auto's lunch for decades with no sign of change on the horizon. US cars are junk and always have been from a manufacturing quality standpoint. Good luck getting one past 100k without major issue and 200k is just a unicorn where stars aligned for one particular vehicle in a run of 1000s.
Re:Maybe US automakers should focus on quality (Score:4, Insightful)
My uncle worked at the Chrysler Proving Grounds where he got to do the fun things like drive cars into brick walls and T-bone them with steel rails. In the late '70s they sent most of his team out to wreaking yards around the country. There they looked for vehicles with more than 70,000 miles and tore them apart, their task was to look for parts that were not wearing as fast as others. For example if the swing arms were still in good shape the company would lean on the manufacturer to lower the quality so that they would also fail before 100,000 miles, that way high-mileage vehicles would rapidly become too expensive to maintain and owners would be forced to buy a new vehicle. He said that he met testers from the other big car companies in some of the junkyards doing the same thing.
I suspect management had been "inspired" by the poem "The Wonderful One-Hoss Shay".
[1]https://www.gutenberg.org/file... [gutenberg.org]
[1] https://www.gutenberg.org/files/45280/45280-h/45280-h.htm
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I sold my old ‘95 Jeep at 185k miles. It had a minor oiled leaks. But no major problems. I have a 2015 Jeep that has 85k miles and has had no issues except the start/stop gas saving feature no longer functions most of the time. Apparently it has to do with some faulty sensor in a door that doesn't affect anything else. Frankly, I don’t miss the feature and the car drives better without it anyway. Both Jeeps were/are great. They legit take care of business off road and in a storm while being a co
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Tesla's sales are down, too. Last I checked, unlike the Detroit automakers, they don't have highly profitable ICE product lines to fall back on. Sure, for now we've kept BYD out, which gives Tesla a slight advantage in the EV realm that their CEO has helped sabotage, but administrations change.
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Eh, even the Ford GT doesn't have a V8 anymore.
Behold the power of the fossil fuel industryâ (Score:1)
â¦to place its priorities above the entire countryâ(TM)s.
Saturated market (Score:3)
Those who wanted to get an EV, have already got one. The others are not martyrs and are not going to make their life more difficult for a higher cause.
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The tax credit ending didn't help matters. Plus, somewhere around 34% of Americans are renters and that makes owning an EV a massive pain in the ass if you can't charge it at home.
We probably are nearing saturation point where everyone who wanted an EV, has a place to charge it, and could afford it, already has one. Adjusted for inflation, gas is still kind of cheap throughout much of the US and utility rates are rising due to AI data center demand, so the cost savings of going EV aren't as significant as
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15 years on and not a single hatchback. I wish I could get one. I have solar and a garage. My gas would be basically free.
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> Those who wanted to get an EV, have already got one.
I want one, and I haven't gotten one yet. (don't buy cars very often)
Lysenkism didn't work out so good either (Score:2)
In fact, I struggle to think of any politically-dictated from on high business decision that didn't end up with some poor sap taking a bath.
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That's a matter of perspective. The ban on whaling was disastrous if you happened to be a whaler, but the petroleum industry made bank.
An "EV mandate" the likes of what the right-wing constantly fearmongered over would've been a huge boon to Tesla, and any other automakers who managed to get their EV act together. After the dust settles, there'd be winners and there'd be losers - but that's just business. How many Blockbuster Video stores you see around these days?
They'll be gone soon (Score:2)
Instead of taking this opportunity to learn from their own failures. These companies are relying on a tenuous political landscape that keeps them under protection from competition.
Wouldn't be investing in any of these soon-to-fail corporations.
RIP US automakers (Score:3)
Well, the Ford guy toured the Chinese companies, got scared, and decided that it's a good time to squeeze the automakers for the last dregs of profits. Before they go down for good.
Meanwhile, Africa and Asia are getting flooded by Chinese EVs. That are now superior to gas cars on price and reliability. And that can be charged from local solar, not depending on imported gas. The cheapest Chinese EVs are now less than $10k, and you can get a very reasonable EV for $15k.
It's amazing seeing the entire industry self-destructing before our eyes.
The large wheel turns slowly (Score:1)
Having spent lots of time in rental Lightning, Mach-e, and a 4xe's (because I own a Rivian), they're just not competitive w Rivians and Model Y's. They're an expensive toe in the water, and BEV'a are not ready for towing or cold weather. Toyota is doing it right w hybrids until things mature.
from the post (Score:2)
> after years of aggressive investment into a transition that, even before Republican lawmakers abolished a $7,500 federal tax credit last fall, was already running below expectations. U.S. EV sales fell more than 30% in the fourth quarter of 2025 once the credit expired in September, and Congress also eliminated federal fuel-efficiency mandates.
sounds like the big 3's balance sheet sheet was in the negative before the expiration (August, September?) but shit really hit the fan after September? is that a fair take?
China is leaving the US in the dust (Score:1, Troll)
We can't compete, and it appears we don't even want to try anymore.
In 20 years your average American won't even be able to afford an American car, so I guess this hardly matters.
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> We can't compete, and it appears we don't even want to try anymore. In 20 years your average American won't even be able to afford an American car, so I guess this hardly matters.
You should look under that hood. You might be surprised as to the why.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
In 20 years? The big three US automakers have been focused on the luxury market for years, ceding much of the affordable compact car market to the likes of Kia and Toyota (foreign-owned, some domestic production). GM, Ford, and whatever you call Chrysler hardly make any cars anymore. They mostly make trucks and luxury SUVs. And they have been very successful at it and make tons of money. But the side effect is that few average Americans can really afford their products right now.
When GM's CEO whines abou
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This. When GM brought back the Bolt after a massive outcry, only the compact crossover was resurrected, not the smaller sub-compact hatchback. So if you want a tiny electric city car for commuting, you're out of luck.
Meanwhile, every major Chinese automaker has compact and sub-compact BEVs (and often PHEVs) that are affordable. So I can only imagine how quickly US brands are going to cede the Canadian, Caribbean, and Latin American markets to the Chinese and Koreans.
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> When GM brought back the Bolt after a massive outcry, only the compact crossover was resurrected, not the smaller sub-compact hatchback. So if you want a tiny electric city car for commuting, you're out of luck.
My partner has a Bolt EUV, I have a Bolt EV. The differences between the vehicle designs is almost entirely down to aesthetics. Yeah, the EUV is a few mm larger in places, but it's imperceivable when you're driving it, and makes absolutely no difference when it comes to practical cargo capacity*. Basically, the EUV looks "sportier", which is neither here nor there when you're comparing compact hatchbacks.
* One time, I actually brought home a heat pump clothes dryer from Best Buy in the back of my Bolt.
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The US automakers focus on profits, just like every other western car company does. They do not have the massive subsidies and forced directing of the Chinese government. Also no Uighur slave labor to keep costs down.
More to the point, Americans want the luxury features and pay for them. Generally, the car companies were giving people what they want while trying to meet various competing foreign and domestic demands, including environmental.
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> forced directing of the Chinese government. Also no Uighur slave labor to keep costs down ...
> --
> Musk is a Nazi: salutes, dog whistles, nationalist beliefs, natalism, history revisionism. Looks, talks, and quacks.
If itooks, talks, and quacks like a hypocrite ...
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Ah, found the simpleminded furry.
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China has cornered the market on Lithium for batteries the same way they've done with rare earths. That's why their electric cars are cheaper.
Re: China is leaving the US in the dust (Score:2)
Speak for yourself. For me, a car has always been a means to get from point A to point B, never something I would want luxury, especially since it's a highly depreciating asset. I certainly like luxury and pay for it in my house and musical instruments. Never cars. That is by choice.
The reason we have owned GM cars in the last 10 years (2015 Volt, 2017 Bolt, and now 2025 Equinox EV replacing the Volt) is that they best fit our needs at the right price point. The Equinox EV is too big, though. I would have m
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It doesn't exist because, for the most part, it costs as much to produce that EUV as the smaller Bolt, and few were willing to pay about the same for the smaller car.
Re: China is leaving the US in the dust (Score:2)
I never mentioned the Bolt EUV. It is similar in size to the Bolt EV, and would have been a much better fit than the Equinox EV.
Bolt EUV was not available in 2025. Even the 2026 EUV model is underwhelming in terms of range. Chevy could very much have designed a small car >300 miles of range. They chose not to. In 11 months, our 2017 Bolt EV will be 10 years old. That's the time when we'll think about replacing it. It won't be another Bolt (EV or EUV) since GM botched the range on the new model, and alrea
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I believe part of the problem is that every bit three car has to cover thousands of dollars of pension payments to retired Boomers. So it makes no sense to try to sell cheap cars.
I don't really see how high-cost Western manufacturers with big pension costs can compete with Chinese manufacturers paying peanuts.
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> In 20 years your average American won't even be able to afford an American car, so I guess this hardly matters.
We're already there, if you're talking about a purchase of the average priced vehicle with the average median income. The average American is buying someone else's sloppy seconds through the likes of Carvana and CarMax, and the really lower income folks? They're buying beaters.
The poor? Maybe an e-scooter or e-bike, if they're lucky.
Re: China is leaving the US in the dust (Score:2)
There haven't been any fully american cars for a long time.
Today it's just a badge slapped on a vehicle assembled from foreign parts.