US Insurer 'Lemonade' Cuts Rates 50% for Drivers Using Tesla's 'Full Self-Driving' Software (reuters.com)
- Reference: 0180648720
- News link: https://tech.slashdot.org/story/26/01/24/0736248/us-insurer-lemonade-cuts-rates-50-for-drivers-using-teslas-full-self-driving-software
- Source link: https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/lemonade-halve-tesla-insurance-rates-miles-driven-with-software-assistant-2026-01-21/
> U.S. insurer Lemonade said on Wednesday it would offer a 50% rate cut for drivers of Tesla electric vehicles when the automaker's Full Self-Driving (FSD) driver assistance software is steering because it had data showing it reduced accidents. Lemonade's move is an endorsement of Tesla CEO Elon Musk's claims that the company's vehicle technology is safer than human drivers, despite concerns flagged by regulators and safety experts.
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> As part of a collaboration, Tesla is giving Lemonade access to vehicle telemetry data that will be used to distinguish between miles driven by FSD — which requires a human driver's supervision — and human driving, the New York-based insurer said. The price cut is for Lemonade's pay-per-mile insurance. "We're looking at this in extremely high resolution, where we see every minute, every second that you drive your car, your Tesla," Lemonade co-founder Shai Wininger told Reuters. "We get millions of signals emitted by that car into our systems. And based on that, we're pricing your rate."
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> Wininger said data provided by Tesla combined with Lemonade's own insurance data showed that the use of FSD made driving about two times safer for the average driver. He did not provide details on the data Tesla shared but said no payments were involved in the deal between Lemonade and the EV maker for the data and the new offering... Wininger said the company would reduce rates further as Tesla releases FSD software updates that improve safety. "Traditional insurers treat a Tesla like any other car, and AI like any other driver," Wininger said. "But a driver who can see 360 degrees, never gets drowsy, and reacts in milliseconds isn't like any other driver."
[1] https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/lemonade-halve-tesla-insurance-rates-miles-driven-with-software-assistant-2026-01-21/
Smashing cameras.... (Score:4, Interesting)
Many years ago in the state of Maryland, the state government stood up speed cameras on roadways to help protect the lives of construction workers. People were so upset by this that they were walking up with baseball bats to smash the cameras and threaten the camera operators due to the additional "surveillance" of people driving on the roadways.
Meanwhile, Tesla with its FSD tracks every mile you drive, what you're doing in your car, and sells and shares that information to other entities, in increments of "every second you drive your car", and nobody's bothered by this in any way?
To be fair, this was always going to be the reality. It's no different to when some insurance companies offered a tracker to reduce your insurance rates if you allowed them to track your driving behaviors. But this is now something offered to hopefully reduce your spend on car insurance, which is usually one of the most attractive ways to get someone to do something (hang money over their heads).
Just interesting that we think all of this surveillance is totally okay (Teslas, Ring cameras, etc.)
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Yep, looks like a majour privacy invasion. Do not take your Tesla if you are going somewhere which may not be approved by others...
Re: Smashing cameras.... (Score:5, Interesting)
Lets not forget those flock cameras that are recording us everywhere. Surprised and disappointed the kids in our neighborhood havent smashed them.
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The idea of a traffic camera is "box bad!". The idea of Tesla car software is "may contain some bad functionality somewhere".
For the average moron, the first is somewhat within mental reach and results in "Grok smash bad box!", while the second idea is so far outside of their mental range, they just do not see it. Sad but true. The average person essentially understands nothing.
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I think the distinction between your two instances here is one can choose whether to drive a Tesla or not. That's not to say I like either form of tracking though.
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Anywhere that speed cameras were implemented it inevitably ends up as a tax generation tool. Speed limits are lowered and additional cameras are added until almost everyone get speeding ticket on a regular basis.
Monthly fee (Score:2)
Isn’t this feature a subscription and can’t be bought?
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So? If it turns out it was not used or subscribed, the insurer just does not pay out. All fine for _them_.
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But what do they do when the "feature" turns itself off seconds before the crash, as it has done multiple times now?
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Simple: Long multi-stage litigation until the victims agree to a settlement. And the insurer pays still pays a lot less.
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In this instance, it's based upon miles driven. It wouldn't significantly affect the miles driven under FSD. Also, if it's only shutting off in the last few seconds it's likely not going to affect the actual outcome of the accident so the costs to them aren't likely affected.
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Beginning next month, [1]you are correct [arstechnica.com]. So save money here and pay money there.
[1] https://arstechnica.com/cars/2026/01/tesla-wants-recurring-revenue-discontinues-autopilot-in-favor-of-fsd/
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> Isn’t this feature a subscription and can’t be bought?
Yeah, it's a $99/mo subscription, and [1]Musk himself has hinted the price might go up. [x.com] That's actually more money than I currently pay to insure my Chevy Bolt.
[1] https://x.com/elonmusk/status/2014539856890716418?s=20
Last time I was in a tesla (Score:2)
With self driving activated, over the course of 15 minutes the driver had to intervene twice. Once to keep the car from drifting into another lane and once to stop the car from hitting a pedestrian who had the gall to be wearing a dark sweatshirt with the hood drawn up.
Maybe things have gotten better.
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Yeah, I'm calling BS on Lemonade here. I think this is a marketing stunt. Other insurers aren't lining up behind FSD, but this terminally online insurance company is the only one to.
Every time there is a new FSD update, there are hundreds of posts on X and other places of FSD doing something stupidly dangerous.
Re: Last time I was in a tesla (Score:2)
Only two interventions in 15 minutes? Do you realize how exceptionally GOOD that is? Normal drivers have to intervene 900 times in 15 minutes.
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Cant tell if you’re being funny or not, so I’ll take your comment seriously. If I’ve hired you to drive me around for 15 minutes, and I need to grab the steering wheel out of your hands twice in order to keep you from killing me or someone else, you’re getting immediately fired.
Impressive? Yes. Ready for implementation? Hrrmmmmm. Like I said, maybe the tech has gotten better.
Re: Last time I was in a tesla (Score:2)
It's a matter of expectation. Teslas have a steering wheel. You are still the driver. Full self-driving is more like extreme driver assistance. It's like an airplane's autopilot. It does most of the work, but the pilot in command is still ultimately responsible for the safety of the flight.
By contrast, Waymo does not have a steering wheel. You are not the driver, you are a passenger in a taxi.
Two different approaches, both valid. Both possibly necessary; these technologies don't emerge fully formed.
Car insurance would be cheaper if... (Score:5, Interesting)
Car insurance would be cheaper if they weren't so fucking expensive to repair. If a bumper dent can result in an $8k claim, because of all the sensors/calibration required to fix it, that's a bigger issue.
The math on this is that Teslas are expensive to repair after an accident, but the hope is that there will just be less of them, but there is more to it....
I have also tried the 'track your driving with a bluetooth beacon' thingy that State Farm offers, and what happens is that your rates go down for one renewal cycle, then you start getting dinged for every little thing afterwords - you took the corner too fast, (turning from a highway onto another highway), or you braked too hard - because someone in front of you had to brake hard, or you were driving too fast, (7 over because everyone on the road was 7 or more mover and you're trying to not enrage everyone). It ends up being not very worthwhile, (and if you have a sports car, you'll have to drive it like a grandmother to not be penalized on your rates).
So in my mind, I have my doubts as to this being very workable, especially for aggressive Tesla drivers.
Single-payer healthcare (Score:2)
You could have much cheaper car insurance if you had single-payer healthcare. You would also need a lot of regulation to ensure proper competition between the companies too though.
Back when car insurance was first mandated the reason the public got behind it is people would get into accidents and get injured and the person who caused the accident wouldn't be able to afford the medical bills. They trotted out a bunch of injured people.
That said it doesn't really do any good to have single-payer healt
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You forgot to mention that in the United States people can be litigious due to them being enabled by lawyers taking cases on contingency. If taking cases on contingency were made illegal, and the damages for medical issues were limited by a government mandated minimum liability amount that everyone had to have, that would go a along way towards resolving the issue.
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Florida actually managed to make car insurance costs come down by imposing some restrictions on lawsuits. I'm sure the devil is in the details, but it actually worked and my rates did go down, so it's one thing our awful Republican leadership did that I actually saw a tangible benefit from.
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IME most Tesla drivers aren't very aggressive. They rarely drive very fast, usually just about the same speed as the average. I think it's because of all those cameras. The flip side of having proof of what everyone else did is that there's proof of what you did. The only real exception is Cybertruck drivers. There's a couple of them in this county and they are always way over the limit.
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> IME most Tesla drivers aren't very aggressive. They rarely drive very fast, usually just about the same speed as the average.
Come to central Florida sometime.
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> Come to central Florida sometime.
Gonna try pretty hard not to
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Repairing the cars isn't the problem it's the potential cost for medical bills combined with a lack of competition.
If you look at the UK car insurance was averaging about 70 British pounds per month until about 2 years ago when prices shot up about 58%. Compare that to an average of about $150 a month. The British pound is worth slightly more than a dollar generally but it's not like it was 20 years ago where it was worth about twice as many dollars it's pretty close these days. It's a little worse righ
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> Definitely sounds like it would very effectively suck all the fun out of driving.
If you want fun , take it to the track. The public roads aren't supposed to be your playground, they're for people getting from A to B who want to come back home to their loved ones at the end of their travels.
The Uni-fied definition of Totaled. (Score:2)
> U.S. insurer Lemonade said on Wednesday it would offer a 50% rate cut for drivers of Tesla electric vehicles..
So, offering discounts all the way back to pre-COVID rates then? How generous of Lemonade to offer up a refreshing sliver of lemon rind after they squeeze.
Don't anyone mention the word "unibody" too loudly around the owners. They have a new uni-fied definition of totaled these days many who are considerably upside down on car loans will love to hate.
probably cuz it is (Score:1)
why does this smack of literal gambling
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That's only true of property damage policies. It's not true of liability only policies, especially minimum ones.
My guess is Tesla is selling them data (Score:2)
So they have this data where are they getting it? How much more data do they have?
What I'm guessing here is that this is equivalent to the GPS trackers that you can put in your car from your insurance company. Basically if you sign up for this you give them the right to track you. So yeah they will cut your rate 50% and then they will track you and then if they don't like the way you are driving they will raise your rates 150% or more.
But this makes the headlines and it's basically super cheap adver
Soon human drivers won't be able to get insurance (Score:2)
As a society we accept a huge number of traffic fatalities and injuries. The driver at fault doesn't pay the true cost of the damage they do. If they did insurance would be unaffordable. Once self driving cars prove that they can reduce traffic deaths by a significant amount I think society will no longer accept the number of deaths by human drivers. We will put more and more of the cost of accidents on the drivers and their insurance. Eventually the cost of insurance for a human driven car will be com
I call marketing BS from young company. (Score:3)
It seems they are mostly an automated company, or strive to be. How much of this is real world savings vs marketing trying to undercut competitors?
Prediction: Insurance Crisis in 5-10 years (Score:2)
It's a positive feedback loop, the more the insurance industry sticks its nose into people's business to reduce risks, the higher the premiums go. This is because they are driven by a a need to increase profit by providing reducing their risk and providing as little comprehensive policy coverage (not comprehensive insurance for damages, but rather a reduced perils list and more perils being marked as not covered).
At some point, cars will become unaffordable to the middle class.
What happens then?
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> At some point, cars will become unaffordable to the middle class.
> What happens then?
Autonomous cars as a service, and micromobility paired with public transit.
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If they deny your claim, you can always ride a Lime scooter.
"When the software is steering" (Score:2)
It says the discount applies "when the software is steering."
Do they check who is steering at the moment they run your card each month?
Do they check who is steering when an accident occurs?
Do they average out who is steering across the whole month and apply a prorated discount?
Wikipedia says they let AI handle their claims. So it seems just as likely that they don't know/don't care.
Prediction:It goes out of business within 6 months (Score:1, Insightful)
Pretty sure this will drive up the number of accidents, causing many more claims than they can actually pay out.
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To be fair, have you looked at their data? Or it is your gut feeling?
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I would expect it to take longer (as the US litigation system is slooooooow), but otherwise, I completely agree.
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And this prediction is based on...?
Re: Prediction:It goes out of business within 6 mo (Score:2)
Inserts hand into ass.
Pulls out prediction.
Re: Prediction:It goes out of business within 6 mo (Score:5, Insightful)
NHSTA data shows Tesla's being ~1/2 as likely to be involved in a crash as comparable cars. That already covers the premium reduction.
Tesla often claims much higher safety advantage (up to 10x) and has been criticised for misrepresentation as those numbers are based on pretty selective data - telemetry collected when FSD is turned on. Which is obviously not all the time and in fact most likely to be used on the easy part of the route, so not at all represent of the average risk.
But in this case those are exactly the conditions in which Lemonade is offering the reduction, so they are providing a 2X payout for 10X payoff. And even if that affects the statistics negatively (more use of FSD in risky conditions for reduced premium) you would expect that to at worst converge to the overall 2X payoff.
But honestly they are probably going to get their real savings from the telemetry and being able to back their non-payouts with ironclad proof, and, conversely, not spend legal and investigative resources when they should just payout.
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> NHSTA data shows Tesla's being ~1/2 as likely to be involved in a crash as comparable cars.
The huge, huge caveat is that the NHTSA claim is based on self-reported Tesla numbers and is perhaps questionable and misleading. Many articles claim that Tesla accidents as reported to NHTSA are heavily redacted and trimmed. Tesla's definition of an "accident" is different and much more narrow than what NHTSA and other car makers generally use, so many crashes that almost all people would call an accident are not accidents to Tesla.
Furthermore, independent reports show that [1]Tesla drivers are the worst dr [lendingtree.com]
[1] https://www.lendingtree.com/insurance/brand-incidents-study/
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> Furthermore, independent reports show that [1]Tesla drivers are the worst drivers of all car makes [lendingtree.com]
Maybe that's independent, but their methodology is s**t. They lump together accidents, DUIs, speeding tickets, and citations as "incidents". Here's the problem:
Fast != unsafe. Driving fast when children are playing nearby is unsafe. Driving fast on a stretch of road with almost nobody else around is not. Both are offenses that could cause a speeding ticket, yet one makes you a bad driver and the other just makes you a fast driver.
Cops consider means when deciding to ticket. When a cop pulls you over,
[1] https://www.lendingtree.com/insurance/brand-incidents-study/
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> Furthermore, independent reports show that [1]Tesla drivers are the worst drivers of all car makes [lendingtree.com]
Anecdotally, this has been my experience too. If I see someone driving like a bat out of hell with absolutely no regard for the speed traffic is flowing at, it's almost always a Tesla.
Also, a few years back when my partner and I were actually considering a Model 3, the insurance quote we'd gotten was absolutely nuts. Ironically, had we purchased it, it would've been based on the older platform that can't run Tesla's latest FSD software anyway.
[1] https://www.lendingtree.com/insurance/brand-incidents-study/
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> Anecdotally, this has been my experience too. If I see someone driving like a bat out of hell with absolutely no regard for the speed traffic is flowing at, it's almost always a Tesla.
That's Florida. In Arizona, it's white BMW. In California, it's old dirt-crusted 90s car missing a muffler. In Texas, it's needlessly oversized pickup truck.
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> But honestly they are probably going to get their real savings from the telemetry
Even if you are a good driver you should not agree to insurance collecting telemetry. Since auto insurance is mandatory and regulated, insurers are regulated in how they can increase premiums. They DO NOT operate on premiums - payouts * profit margin, but more accurately max(premium market will bear) - what regulators allow. As such, telemetry is just a roundabout way to get around regulators and charge you more premiums.