New York Introduces Legislation To Crack Down On 3D Printers That Make Ghost Guns (3dprintingindustry.com)
- Reference: 0180591164
- News link: https://hardware.slashdot.org/story/26/01/15/2236205/new-york-introduces-legislation-to-crack-down-on-3d-printers-that-make-ghost-guns
- Source link: https://3dprintingindustry.com/news/new-york-unveils-first-in-nation-plan-to-block-3d-printed-guns-248000/
> "From the iron pipeline to the plastic pipeline, these proposals will keep illegal ghost guns off of New York streets, and enhance measures to track and block the production of dangerous and illegal firearms in our state," Hochul said.
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> In addition to mandating printer-level safeguards and restricting access to CAD files, the proposed legislation would require law enforcement agencies to report any recovered 3D printed firearms to a statewide database. The measure also includes a provision requiring commercial gun manufacturers to redesign pistols so they cannot be easily converted for automatic fire.
"These illegal firearms are being manufactured in homes and used in crimes right now, which is why I have been working with my colleagues in Albany and the private sector over the past several years to stop their proliferation. Passing these measures will reduce crime and strengthen public safety for all New Yorkers," said Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg.
[1] https://spectrumlocalnews.com/nys/rochester/news/2026/01/15/governor-hochul-takes-aim-at-3d-printers-that-make-ghost-guns-
How? (Score:5, Insightful)
Having the restriction on copying or printing money was easy - currency is well defined, so has a pattern that can be matched against. It succeeded because the restriction was on something that the government controlled the design of anyway (the restriction was only on US currency).
A gun? Theres basically an infinite number of ways this could be designed and printed. Theres no fucking way printer-level restrictions can ever succeed.
This is performative legislation which will accomplish nothing other than allowing for more charges or legal action. It wont prevent a single gun from being printed.
Re: (Score:2)
Not to mention that CAD files aren't used for 3D printing. 3D printing needs far more detailed instructions than CAD files provide, though they can be used as a starting point.
It might also run into 1st amendment issues. I could see a court even considering the 2nd for it.
Re: (Score:1)
Right. Thus, they will just send everything you print to the FBI for evaluation. Or some other agency they will create for this.
Re: (Score:2)
Obviously, the answer to "how will this work?" is AI. It's always AI.
Bird is supposedly rolling out scooters that use AI to determine if you're riding them on the sidewalk. It doesn't matter if it actually works well, it's something regulators asked for, and that's how the game is played.
Re: (Score:2)
> Obviously, the answer to "how will this work?" is AI. It's always AI.
For some very limited definition of "work", wherein the 3D printer constantly fails with cryptic error messages and refuses to print anything that even vaguely looks like it could be a gun component, resulting in everyone just black-market importing stock-firmware versions from China.
Or for some very limited definition of "work", wherein it misses 99.999% of all actual gun components.
Or, more likely, all of the above.
Re: (Score:2)
It's not even comparable.
Printers have a degree of smarts built into the hardware and/or driver. You can send them a Postscript file generally, which is an image format. So yes, they could match it up against some kind of pattern for currency.
3D printers do not operate that way whatsoever. They recieve raw instructions in GCode that describes specifically how to move the print head around and what to extrude. The printer itself knows nothing about anything. It would not be able to match any kind of pattern.
Re: (Score:2)
This really depends on the printer. Older printers, sure, they just accept gcode or the custom format for resin printers, and deal with each layer as they get to it. Dont need anything complicated for that as the OS.
But newer printers.
My Creality K1s all run a full Linux server, for example - you can root it, replace it, SSH into it. And given the K1s are running on Marlin firmware, this isnt a unique setup. During printing they are adapting to temperatures, bed alignments etc on the fly as well.
My HeyGea
With what processor? (Score:5, Informative)
Most 3D printers run off cheap microcontrollers that don't have to do anything more than follow a set of CNC instructions provided to them. They couldn't detect an attempt to print a gun even if they wanted to.
Re: (Score:2)
> Most 3D printers run off cheap microcontrollers that don't have to do anything more than follow a set of CNC instructions provided to them. They couldn't detect an attempt to print a gun even if they wanted to.
Not to mention that 3D printers are frequently a DIY item - people build their own all the time. So good luck with enforcing the restriction, unless New York legislation can somehow mandate that every microcontroller and computer in existence conform to their fantasy.
Re: (Score:2)
This would probably have to be implemented in the slicer software. Shh don't tell the bureaucrats that you don't need to use the slicer software to make a print.
Bullet (Score:1)
I'm not an American, I find this firearm frenzy confusing. I know I'm not the first to ask this, but I'm still looking for a good answer: how about bullet control?
Re:Bullet (Score:5, Funny)
> how about bullet control?
We have gun ranges where you can practice getting the bullet to go where you want it to.
Re: (Score:2)
> I'm not an American, I find this firearm frenzy confusing. I know I'm not the first to ask this, but I'm still looking for a good answer: how about bullet control?
In a society where "muh gunz" is a fundamental part of the social fabric, even controlling the availability of bullets probably wouldn't help much. It would make them a LOT more expensive; but among outright theft, stock "miscounts", bullets that "fell off the back of the truck", and the ability to (expensively) make your own bullets, people WOULD get their precious ammo.
Not to mention that efficient and well-oiled (pun intended) drug-running networks would just add bullets made in other countries to their
Re: (Score:2)
I read a quote once from a security pundit that if he wanted to smuggle a nuclear device into the US he would just stash it in a bale of marijuana. Seems apt
Re: (Score:2)
The gun craze goes back nearly to the beginning. In fact Jules Vernes even wrote a somewhat famous book satirizing the gun craze.
Re: (Score:2)
You can cast your own bullets. It's a popular hobby especially for handguns. I do it myself for lower velocity rifle loads.
You can also machine solid copper or silver bullets on a lathe.
If you mean cartridge control as in the loaded ammunition then you might get somewhere, but remember black powder is easily made at home.
[1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
That will kill you just as dead as a modern 9mm.
All in all reducing crime would benefit more from executing drug dealers than from harassing the innocent wh
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remington_Model_1858
Re: (Score:2)
The whole issue is written into the constitution of our nation, where it identifies gun ownership (as a means of self defense) as a right. The Supreme Court went further and included all sorts of essential gun oriented things as part of that right. They eliminated the very loophole that you suggested as an "answer".
In short, there is only one answer that satisfies the needs that people that are against guns have, and that is to change the constitution.
That takes a supermajority of the people and the states
Re: (Score:2)
You're correct of course. Although it's pretty clear the original intent of the amendment was to allow states to have self-defence militias, which were common in the 1800s. The Supreme Court has obviously expanded the original meaning to what it is today over the last 150 years.
It might be that only 20% of the US population thinks it's a frenzy, but America's gun culture is recognized widely across the world, so much so that Jules Vernes wrote a famous novel satirizing it.
Re: (Score:2)
People reload/manufacture their own ammunition in the US also. Just as with firearms, it would be harder if certain precursor material are banned. But, can you really ban sulfur, nitrate, and potassium? A reminder that some random weirdo was able to manufacture a working firearm complete with ammunition to assassinate a former Prime Minister in a country with the strongest gun control laws in the world. No 3D printing needed.
ah yes, another comment section full of: (Score:1, Troll)
[1]‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens [theonion.com]
[1] https://theonion.com/no-way-to-prevent-this-says-only-nation-where-this-r-1819576527/
Re: (Score:3)
Well, mostly because this isn't the right way to go about regulating homemade guns. With current 3D printing technology, the only sort of fully 3D printed gun that you can make is a plastic "zip gun". Thing is, you've always been able to make those with hardware store parts, if your goal is to build an inaccurate single shot pistol.
The truth behind 3D printed semi-automatic Glock clones (and similar firearms) is that they're being built through a legal loophole, where the majority of gun parts aren't subj
Re: (Score:3)
Indeed. Mexico has far more stringent gun laws than the USA, has only 1 legal gun store (as of last time I checked), ownership of military calibers is forbidden (so no 9mm or 5.56 for the people). Cartels still have huge amounts of firearms, including machine guns. While US firearms are popular for handguns and niche weapons, lots are running around with actual AK line weapons (full auto/select fire), and the police have found the cartels to be manufacturing weapons as well.
Re: (Score:3)
Cartels still have huge amounts of firearms, including machine guns.
Hahahahaaha. Haha. Ha. Yeah, I wonder where they get them from?
"According to [U.S.] Justice Department figures, 94,000 weapons were recovered from Mexican drug cartels in the five years between 2006 and 2011, of which 64,000 -- 70 percent, according to Jim Moran -- come from the United States." - [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smuggling_of_firearms_into_Mexico
Re: (Score:2)
Now how many of those serial numbers were of guns sold to the Mexican military and law enforcement? Anything full auto certainly was, as they sure ain't fucking paying the 10k minimum to get a pre-86 gun in the US.
Re: (Score:3)
The 70% figure is a misstatement. 70% of the guns Mexico's government submits to the USA for tracing are successfully traced to the USA.
Trick is, Mexico only submits a fraction of the guns they collect. They don't submit weapons they trace to their own forces and store, weapons they know are from elsewhere, like the full auto AK-47 and 74 rifles with Russian and similar stampings, stuff obviously made in China or South America.
The whole paragraph citing the 70% figure.
"According to [U.S.] Justice Departme
You can completely 3D print a working 1911 (Score:2)
Actually, the plastic zip gun is the best somebody can do with a relatively cheap plastic or resin type printer.
Using industrial metal printers, like what Boeing and other airline manufacturers are using to make select parts, it is possible to print a fully functional handgun. I remember reading an article where they printed and tested a 1911 using one. All metal parts.
That said, not a lot of us are running around with a $100k and up printer, so it isn't that much of a factor, at least for now. The noble
Re: (Score:2)
> The truth behind 3D printed semi-automatic Glock clones (and similar firearms) is that they're being built through a legal loophole, where the majority of gun parts aren't subject to the same purchasing requirements as if you were buying the single component that is considered a gun - the receiver or frame. So, you 3D print that part and then buy the rest of the "gun" from online stores that legally aren't required to make sure you're eligible to own a gun.
And online sites such as PCBWay do both 3D printing and CNC machining. I don't know if they have any policies in place regarding refusal to print or machine certain things; but even if they do, there's a good chance that any such design could be made in smaller pieces that might not be readily recognizable as gun parts.
Between the parts that you can legally buy, and the ability to have parts machined in China and shipped to you, it might be possible to make an all-metal gun which no official gun manufacture
Re: (Score:2)
I'm sure you could get the machine shop down the street to do the same thing if you put your mind to it. But you'd have to put your mind to it. You couldn't just download some plans, buy the unrestricted bits and print off the restricted parts on your $300 printer.
Realistically, even that latter bit is probably too much work to actually be a problem. Especially when you can just look in Dad's nightstand.
Re: (Score:2)
they're being built through a legal loophole
Tell us more about this "loophole." It seems to me that it's the anti-gun laws which are using the Commerce Clause as a loophole for the "shall not be infringed" part.
A ban on guns is a ban on manufacturing... (Score:2)
A firearm is a machine made up of discreet parts, many of which can either be sourced online without restriction in the United States (barrels, springs, slides, non-receiver frame, stock), or manufactured in a basic home workshop (basically just the receiver).
Other countries ban all firearm parts, or critical parts like barrels. The US has a particular regime that only recognizes the receiver as the actual "firearm" at a federal level. I'm not up on the current ins and outs of state laws, but to the best
Re: A ban on guns is a ban on manufacturing... (Score:1)
think of units if measure. how many hundreds of gallons of orange juice or even water is it responsible (reasonable) to store in your home. how many pounds of dead flesh is it responsible (reasonable) to bury in your yard. how many untraceable, home manufactured firearms is it responsible (reasonable) to assume exist in each home in the US.....?
Re: (Score:2)
Ok, the proposed law is even more about thought control than just imposing a censorship regime on the printer:
"It would also make it a crime to possess or share the digital design files used to produce 3D printed firearms unless the individual has appropriate authorization."
In other words, it would defacto impose a gun manufacturing license requirement on anyone who even wants to have a cad file for a firearm.
So, some questions (not having read the actual text of the law) - would this then be applicable to
Re: (Score:2)
Don't give them any ideas. Pipes will be banned next. You could make a pretty crude gun with just a piece of pipe and something to smack the back of the shell with.
Re: (Score:2)
The Sten submachinegun from WWII was once described as "a series of tubes."
Which is basically exactly what it is. A few tubes, a trigger, and a magazine.
Anyone calling to ban 3D-printed guns without banning metal tubing is just playing for votes with a law that will only ever be selectively enforced and certainly won't be effective.
regulating the wrong part (Score:1)
lower receiver is no longer the hard part to DIY. It's the barrel. they need to start regulating the barrel, not the lower receiver. easy fix.
Regulations aren’t thought through (Score:2)
What gets a serial number is the receiver, the part the holds the components together but is often the not a very stressed part and without tight tolerances. Therefore it’s usually quite easy to make one with hand tools, though it might take a decent number of hours. What can’t be printed is the barrel, even if a several hundred thousand dollar 3D printed metal process is used, it would still require more machining and CNC tools are probably cheaper and not much harder to use. But you can 3D
Re: (Score:2)
Barrels are a wear part, I've replaced two so far.
As for hard to build, rifled barrels predate bolt-action rifles by centuries.
[1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
"Some of the earliest recorded European attempts of spiral-grooved musket barrels were of Gaspard Kollner, a gunsmith of Vienna in 1498 and Augustus Kotter of Nuremberg in 1520."
The military didn't use them as they fouled easily with black powder. But they were common in civilian use by the French and Indian war if not sooner.
Another point to remembe
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rifling
Re: (Score:2)
There are videos on Youtube where someone makes a working, decently accurate pistol barrel out of a metal bolt with a few tools. It's been a solved problem for a long time.
Rifle barrels not so much, but criminals usually want pistols, not rifles.
DUH! Won't work (Score:1)
It will work about as well as the 3,504,949,394 gun laws. CRIMINALS don't obey the laws.
Re: (Score:2)
> It will work about as well as the 3,504,949,394 gun laws. CRIMINALS don't obey the laws.
Some gun laws *do* work, but only gun laws that work by restricting non-criminals in ways that make it harder for criminals to get guns.
Background checks help by making it harder for criminals to purchase guns over the counter.
Safe storage laws help by making it harder for criminals to steal guns from people who bought them legally.
Making it illegal to sell firearm barrels without serial numbers and background checks would make ghost guns way, way harder to produce.
But this particular law is completely abs
Re: (Score:2)
Canada pretty much has all of those things. Barrels don't need serial numbers but I believe they can now only legally be bought after showing a gun license.
Yet three or four years ago a couple were busted in Alberta for making MAC-10 submachineguns and selling them to criminals.
Even in the UK, which has much stricter laws than that, a group were busted a few years ago making handguns in their little gun factory and only discovered because they were dumb enough to test-fire them where the neighbours could he
Welcome to the... (Score:2)
...moronosphere
It's impossible for printer software to accurately determine if a part is a gun part
Expect a lot of false positives
Why are almost all politicians so clueless? (Score:2)
"Passing these measures will reduce crime and strengthen public safety for all New Yorkers," said Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg.
No. No, they really won't. From an economics perspective, ghost guns are merely a substitution of a less expensive good for a more expensive good. Nothing more. Therefore, if you somehow miraculously manage to prevent 3D printing of gun parts, they'll just go back to wood or whatever they used before. Or they will 3D print moulds and then pour liquid into the moulds
Re: Why are almost all politicians so clueless? (Score:1)
I'm afraid that just like most regulation the impracticality of enforcement is about the practicality of a class line. below the line is where the users of the technology will eat the cost of having regulated stuff that does not work as well in general, so everybody wins......
Re: (Score:2)
> I'm afraid that just like most regulation the impracticality of enforcement is about the practicality of a class line. below the line is where the users of the technology will eat the cost of having regulated stuff that does not work as well in general, so everybody wins......
The computing power inside a 3D printer is mostly microcontroller-class. Doing this would require enough computing power to generate a 3D model from G-Code (which is computationally nontrivial), then run large AI models against the result (which is even more nontrivial).
I would not be surprised if doing this in an offline fashion adds $10k or more to the cost of a 3D printer.
Doing it in an online fashion would violate privacy and corporate security and would still add massively to the cost of the printer.
S
Re: (Score:2)
They're paid representatives of money, which doesn't require ethics or intelligence.
Re: (Score:2)
" E. collapsing the profitability of illegal drug sales through marijuana legalization, "
Washington State tried that. It failed.
"F. providing better financial support for the poor so that young people are not so easily tempted to join gangs."
Teenagers don't join gangs due to lack of financial support. They want to belong to the "in" group.
"requiring people to store their firearms in locked safes when they are not physically present to dry up the sale of stolen firearms,"
Didn't help.
"D. massively increasing
Re: (Score:2)
Criminals don't make their own guns. They just buy them illegally.
It's possibly worth nothing that the Sullivan Act of 1911 which brought "gun control" to New York was pushed by a politician who was owned by the criminal gangs, because the gangs didn't think it was fair that their victims were armed and could shoot back.
What about new designs? (Score:2)
If I design an entirely new firearm from the ground up in to defeat the built-in safeguards, will the company that makes that 3D printer be on the hook because someone used a printer they manufactured to print an instance of that firearm? I mean the parts designed to be printed, not the metal parts that are likely to be in there somewhere.
Kathy Hochul is a fucking moron (Score:2)
Next, she'll demand serial numbers printed on every part. Replacing her aging, bureaucratic, Big Mother ass with any random democratic socialist or even a Republicant would be better.
And it will require some private AI tech she owns (Score:2)
I smell a scam dressed up as "safety".
Tell me you know zero about how 3D printers work (Score:2)
3D printers consume a set of GCode, which is raw instructions of where to move the XY axis, how much to output, and when to move the Z axis.
They know ZERO about what is being printed, and their compute is so low they would have ZERO ability to do any such analysis. All of that level of smarts is contained in THE SLICER, which is a set of software that takes in a 3D model and turns it into GCode for a specific printer based on user controls.
You could in theory have this legislation target SLICER SOFTWARE, li
Do politicians all get lobotomies when they run? (Score:2)
I looked and the NRA is basically saying the same things. [1]https://www.nraila.org/article... [nraila.org] It never ceases to amaze me just how stupid politicians are, whether it be some nonsense like the Clipper chip or trying to somehow magically make a printer analyze G-code.
[1] https://www.nraila.org/articles/20260112/bans-for-3d-blueprints-new-york-governor-pushes-anti-gun-anti-speech-proposals
Why? (Score:5, Informative)
It's legal to manufacture your own guns, even in New York.
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
It is about control. People, especially bureaucrats, just love to be able to tell other people what they can or cannot do. They breathe and eat this power.
Re: Why? (Score:2)
Mostly for self-protection reasons since the types of people you mentioned would be the first to seriously piss someone off.
Re: (Score:1)
No, it's not. It is only legal for someone with a federal firearms license to manufacture guns, and even then they have to have a serial number. Not sure where to got you information, but it is 100% incorrect.
Re: (Score:3)
Only if you want to sell them. If you want to manufacture them it's perfectly legal.
It is legal to manufacture your own firearms (Score:4)
You might want to actually research this before you make the claim, as it is you who is "100% incorrect."
[1]ATF webpage on Privately Made Firearms [atf.gov].
> Privately made firearms (PMFs) are firearms (including a frame or receiver) that have been completed, assembled or otherwise produced by a person other than a licensed manufacturer. PMFs are also made without a serial number placed by a licensed manufacturer at the time the firearm was produced. However, not all PMFs are illegal and not all firearms are required to have a serial number. ATF has compiled some information on the different types of PMFs and things to consider while owning one.
> Things to Consider
> Individuals who make their own firearms may use a 3D printing process or any other process, as long as the firearm is “detectable” as defined in the Gun Control Act. You do not have to add a serial number or register the PMF if you are not engaged in the business of making firearms for livelihood or profit.
While there's obviously more to this, I can legally make a firearm myself, using a 3D printer as desired and technically feasible, so long as there's enough metal in it to trigger a metal detector (that's the Gun Control Act detectable requirement). Generally a metal barrel and chamber is more than enough for this.
[1] https://www.atf.gov/firearms/privately-made-firearms
Re: (Score:2)
Next time, don't be so confidently stupid.
Re: (Score:2)
I don't understand the whole "print in 3D" shit.
From what I've seen in the docs, you don't 3D print the important parts that actually shoot, but buy them. And yeah, I've seen the three youtube videos of people who have fully-equipped machine shops that can make them, y'all aren't these people, you don't have the equipment, the knowledge or the skill to work metal.
Then, the trumpistan has the so-called 2nd amendment, which protects the privilege of every never-grew-up imbecile to buy real, working, high qua
Re: (Score:2)
Yeah, you don't know what you're talking about.
Re: (Score:2)
Sure, Jan.