Are Hybrid Cars Helping America Transition to Electric Vehicles? (msn.com)
- Reference: 0180514735
- News link: https://hardware.slashdot.org/story/26/01/04/2346256/are-hybrid-cars-helping-america-transition-to-electric-vehicles
- Source link: https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/how-hybrid-models-are-helping-keep-automakers-electrification-plans-afloat/ar-AA1Td1Kf
> The EV market is slowing in the U.S., but analysts expect hybrid sales to continue accelerating. CarGurus Inc., a digital listings platform that covers most of the US auto market, predicts nearly one in six new cars next year will be a hybrid, as automakers green-light more and better machines with the technology. And though these cars and trucks will still burn gas, they will quietly move the needle on both transportation emissions and the transition to fully electric cars and trucks... CarGurus [2]calls hybrids the success story of 2025. Indeed, the fastest-selling car in the country this year has been the Hyundai Palisade Hybrid; it sat on lots for fewer than 14 days on average...
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> While carmakers have struggled to turn a profit on fully electric vehicles, analysts say their investments in batteries and electric motors are helping them sell more and better hybrid machines. It's also increasingly difficult to discern a hybrid from a solely gas-powered model, said Scott Hardman, assistant director of the Electric Vehicle Research Center at the University of California at Davis. Carmakers today often don't even label a hybrid as such. Consider Toyota's RAV4, one of the best-selling vehicles in America. The 2026 version of the SUV comes in six different variants, all of which include an electric motor and a gas tank. "A hybrid is just a regular car now," Hardman said. "You can buy one by accident...."
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> While not as clean as an electric vehicle, hybrids offer sneaky carbon cuts as well. Americans, on average, drive [3]about 38 miles a day, which requires about one gallon of gas in most basic hybrids. Contemporary plug-in hybrids, which can run on all-battery power, can cover almost that entire range without the gas engine kicking in. And a small crowd of cars will do even better, stretching their batteries well over 40 miles per charge. All told, hybridization can reduce the carbon dioxide emissions of a vehicle by roughly [4]20% to 30% , according to the International Council on Clean Transportation.
Some interesting statistics from the article:
By 2030 Ford expects fully or partially electrified vehicles will represent half its global sales. Toyota [5]has already reached 50% ("in part thanks to all those hybrid RAV4s").
Honda is "basing [6]its entire business on hybrids until at least 2030."
Around one-third of America's hybrid drivers "transition to a fully electric vehicle when they next switch cars."
In September 57% of America's car shoppers "were considering a fully electric auto, according to JD Power. However, among hybrid households, that share was almost 70%."
[1] https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/how-hybrid-models-are-helping-keep-automakers-electrification-plans-afloat/ar-AA1Td1Kf
[2] https://dealers.cargurus.com/drc/cargurus-intelligence-report-q3-2025
[3] https://www.consumershield.com/articles/average-miles-driven-per-year
[4] https://theicct.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/07/ID-392-%E2%80%93-Life-cycle-GHG_report_final.pdf
[5] https://electrek.co/2025/11/05/toyotas-selling-cars-faster-than-it-can-build-them/
[6] https://www.jalopnik.com/2017412/honda-ev-plans-pushed-back-five-years-by-trump/
Toyota/Ford hybrid drivetrain is the bomb (Score:4, Informative)
The Toyota / Ford hybrid (and phev... they're basically the same) power train are really cool and surprisingly simple mechanically.
probably the pinnacle of ice gas engine application. Atkinson cycle engine and eCVT (with no belt and relatively light use of clutches)
[1]https://youtu.be/O61WihMRdjM?s... [youtu.be]
[1] https://youtu.be/O61WihMRdjM?si=PSaQhdses-fDN6Iz
Re: (Score:2)
I see hybrids as a way to convince sceptics. Once they find they are mostly using the battery anyway, and especially with a PHEV where they get used to charging it, next time they might just go electric only and enjoy those benefits too.
No oil, no belts, no gearbox, no fluids, no spark plugs, no alternator, no radiator and pump, very little brake wear... They realize what a pointless load of effort the ICE part is.
Re: (Score:2)
> I see hybrids as a way to convince sceptics.
Maybe there are a few people who will shockingly discover that all of their daily driving fits within the range of their PHEV's battery without the ICE engine kicking in, but I doubt it. If anything, I think hybrids will just reinforce how much more convenient gas is than having to make a half hour pit stop to charge.
Re: (Score:2)
I think I should probably clarify that when you're driving a full EV, then you get to experience that the battery is likely more than adequate for your daily driving needs. PHEVs tend to use much smaller capacity batteries, so when the engine kicks on during that unexpected grocery run after work, the driver might think "Gee, lucky I had this, if this was a full EV I'd be out of juice!"
Whereas if it actually had been a full EV, it would've had the capacity for the unexpected trip, no problem.
Re: (Score:2)
yeah a lot of newer EV models are posting ranges 350-500km, and even higher. The thing I didn't fully get was that EV efficiency is exact opposite of an ICE car (ie, better range around town and in traffic; cruising at 110km/h absolutely KILLS your range) - in retrospect it's kind of obvious, but having done a lot of highway travel recently for the holidays it actually became quite a pain.
Re: (Score:2)
A friend of mine in Montana had precisely this experience, after buying a PHEV RAV4.
However, he's an intelligent person who notices things.
Re: (Score:2)
It obviously depends how big the battery is, but they don't need to do all their driving on it. Just enough that they see the cost savings and ideally get to see how convenient charging is.
It also helps them fix their understanding of distance. In my experience most people over-estimate distances by about 100%, so think battery range is less than it really is. Back in the day people would ask if I could get to the next city over in my Leaf, which was 22 miles away.
I bought an F150 Hybrid in 2025. (Score:5, Insightful)
For the following reasons, in priority order:
1) Better gas mileage.
2) Backup power generation (which is freaking amazing!).
3) Longer intervals between oil changes and maintenance.
4) Actually able to tow.
And lastly, the Lightning, other than being fast AF, sucks at being a truck.
Re: (Score:1)
You are an idiot. Weeks at a time? No! We just want to get to our campsite a state or two away without wasting HOURS of or lives sitting on our asses waiting for under performing and vastly over hyped charging stations to finally bringing our batteries to 60% charge.
Re: (Score:2)
You're wasting your life with a gas car not with the EV as studies have shown that human driving performance degrades rapidly if driving for more than about 2.5 hours without at least a 15min break (which is all you need to recharge your EV at a fast charger to get you the next 2.5 hours).
Do yourself a favour, buy an EV, it may force you take breaks and actually help you get to your campsite alive. And if you don't care about your own life, maybe consider the other people you're likely to have a head on col
Re: (Score:3)
> The Lightning is great.
So great that Ford gave it the axe.
While Ford wasn't wrong in their assumption that lots of trucks spend their lives as pavement princesses and would be just fine as EVs, truck buyers tend to buy based on how they imagine they'll be using their truck, rather than the reality.
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> And lastly, the Lightning, other than being fast AF, sucks at being a truck.
It may surprise you but that's not a problem for the majority of truck owners.
Re: (Score:2)
The core reality here is both depressing and true. But it's not really the majority. It feels like it is, if you live in a city, but 9 out of 10 of truck owners are not in dense urban areas.
That said, in a dense urban area, I suspect 90% or greater of all pickup trucks are just expensive testicle extensions.
Re: (Score:1)
> 3) Longer intervals between oil changes and maintenance.
I recommend being extra skeptical of this advertising point. First, engine oil should be changed with miles and time. Second, hybrid is hard on oil because of lack of continuous operation makes it harder to get oil to temperature and evaporate condensation.
Re: (Score:2)
Agreed hybrids are just a bad idea. If you really need the gas range, you want an EREV, not a hybrid. Good luck finding what you want in one of those right now, though.
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I live in the near-city suburbs. Most of the pickups I see are bought as a statement and never used for cargo. The lightning, which goes fast yes, was perfect for those guys, assuming they owned a home.
If you want a really useful truck, you should import a bongo truck. I am amazed when people (other than perhaps gardeners) profess to me that their 4-foot beds are someone useful. I can get a longer 2x4 in my hatchback than they can in their truck. I was car shopping just last week, looking at the PV5.
To misquote an orange yoshi (Score:2)
Less carbon is less carbon, you can't say it's only half.
More complicated (Score:3)
Gas cars people understand. ICE = internal combustion engine.
No-plug hybrids are Gas powered generators that run an electric motor. Sometimes they let you add direct ICE power to the electric. They get better mileage but cost more mileage than ICE. Also cost more to repair. But they have the best possible range.
Plug in hybrids are almost always plugged in at home but everyone keeps buying gasoline to run them when your home's charge runs out. Mainly because plugging them in on the road is VERY expensive - more so than buying gasoline. They have the same advantages and disadvantages as no-plug hybrid except their cheapest mode is running on home's electricity.
Pure EVs are more expensive than ICE, but not as bad as hybrids. But maintance on them is significantly cheaper. They are cheap to run on home electricity but again, too expensive to run on bought electricity.
How to get pure EV's adopted:
1) Make EV chargers more prevalent. They need to be everywhere a gas station is and more. Parking lots should include them - especially office lots and hotels. They need to be considered an expected perk - the equivalent of white lines drawn on the parking lot.
2) Make EV chargers cheap. You cannot charge a premium for this stuff if you want people to use it. Hard to stop the greedy sob's if they think of it as a profit center. The reason people use the charger is to save money and if people with hybrids can buy gasoline cheaper they will not buy electricity. Put a max price on it below the gas equivalent price.
3) Make gas more expensive. The US has some of the lowest gas tax. In 2019, the only ones cheaper are Brazil, Indonesia, and Russia.
If you do these things then EV's will become common.
As long as people have to worry about finding a place to charge, EVs will not be common. As long as a-holes try to overcharge people for electricity as compared to gasoline, EV's will not be common.
Stop these things and EV's will be common. If EV's become common, we won't have to ration gasoline.
Re: (Score:2)
#2 and #3 are spot on.
#1 is a nice-to have but not vital. Most EV owners, unless they are road-tripping, never, EVER use a for-pay charger. I own 2 EVs and have never paid for non-home electrons except to test plug and software compatibility for a just-in-case scenario. Not once. Even on vacation, driving an EV around a national park, the hotel provided free charging and the national park provided free charging.
Now IF you got #2 and #3, you'd start to need #1, because more people would use them.
They don't really work like that (Score:2)
> While not as clean as an electric vehicle, hybrids offer sneaky carbon cuts as well. Americans, on average, drive about 38 miles a day, which requires about one gallon of gas in most basic hybrids. Contemporary plug-in hybrids, which can run on all-battery power, can cover almost that entire range without the gas engine kicking in.
Hybrids will average 40, 50, 60 whatever mpg, which is great, but a plugin hybrid's larger battery doesn't turn it into an electric car. The combined power of the car is from all motors, and you're not going to like driving an SUV 38 miles on half or a quarter its total power output, whatever the configuration is. If you don't want to waste gas, you just go easy on the throttle and the car will use only the power output you need from any combination of the motors.
I think where a plugin hybrid makes more sen
Re: (Score:2)
A plugin hybrid can run in pure EV mode if you want. Yes it's slower, 0-60 is 10 seconds for a Prius Plugin Hybrid for example. But for driving around on city streets where you top out at about 50, I wonder how bad it would really be.
I have a pure EV (cooper mini) that isn't very fast in the upper ranges of horsepower, e.g. freeway passing, but it's very quick around town.
The idea of EREV "hybrids" is interesting (Score:2)
In theory, at least, I like the idea behind the Extended Range EVs like the upcoming Ford Ranger. If I understand it correctly, they're basically a full-blown EV (with a pure EV drive train) - but they also have a generator onboard that can be used to recharge the batteries if necessary.
It seems like that addresses the range anxiety some people stress about, without having to deal with the more complicated drive train of most current hybrids (where there's more points of potential failure than either an ICE
Re: (Score:2)
It stands to reason that hybrids would be more complex and therefore failure-prone, but it's just not the case. In fact, currently, it's the opposite - hybrids are the most reliable and pure EV's the least reliable:
[1]https://www.consumerreports.or... [consumerreports.org]
The hybrid is the most complicated but apparently that is swamped by other factors that matter more, maybe that Toyota is the leading maker of hybrids.
I wouldn't bet my life on the qualify of this CR ranking as to which is the absolute best , but they clearl
[1] https://www.consumerreports.org/cars/car-reliability-owner-satisfaction/electric-vehicles-are-less-reliable-than-conventional-cars-a1047214174/
Re: (Score:2)
This quote about relative reliability from that Consumer Reports article does make sense:
> “Many of the problems with EVs and plug-in hybrids are because they are newer designs compared to gas technology, so some kinks still continue to be worked out,” says Jake Fisher, senior director of auto testing at Consumer Reports. “By comparison, hybrids have been around for nearly three decades, and the technology is tried and true.”
It's also true that ICE vehicles have been around even longer
Full EVs should have never happened (Score:1)
The world should have abandoned full EVs and focused on hybrids from the start. Had they done it, everyone would own a hybrid by now. No contest - hybrids are just the best of the two worlds: more ecological short distance while providing reliability and long distance when needed.
Re: (Score:1)
Full EV is perfect around town car for a wealthy, urban home owner. If your commute is not that long, if you have a home to charge your EV overnight, and if you can afford second vehicle for long trips (or fortunate to live where great train system exists) then EV is ideal for you.
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yeah pretty much... I'm not a car guy AT ALL but it was recently time for us to replace our 20yr old hatchback. We got the new Kia EV3 and driving around town it's insanely efficient - I have been getting the advertised 600+ km range on a single charge. But if you're doing a lot of highway speeds then maybe half that. It's totally manageable I think, but maybe a bit like using linux, you have to be motivated to make it work and it involves some behavior changes. Most people 'get' living with an ICE car and
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> Most people 'get' living with an ICE car and there's no incentive to change yet, which is perfectly rational esp in jurisdictions like the US where gas is artificially cheap.
It's the opposite: gas is cheap, except in areas where they apply high taxes that make it artificially expensive.
Re: Full EVs should have never happened (Score:2)
Which is not who 99.99% of people are.
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WHAT? 70% of the US lives in single family homes. A garage is nice, but not necessary for an EV. Almost everyone with a single-family home will save money and have a better driving and maintenance experience with an EV. EVs are just better. Even road trips with charging go pretty well with them, and that's less than 20 days per year (that's 5% of your days of using the car and it's an outlier -- most drive less on road trips than that). So some inconvenience on road trips is made up for by the cost sa
Re: (Score:2)
> If your commute is not that long
Most current generation EVs have around 260-300 miles of range. If that's the kind of commute you're dealing with, an EV will actually save you a fortune in gas costs. Still, I couldn't imagine having to deal with that much driving every workday.
> if you have a home to charge your EV overnight
This I'll give you. The charging situation in the USA for people who can't just park in their garage or driveway and charge, presently sucks.
> and if you can afford second vehicle for long trips
Depending on how often longer trips are taken, it can sometimes still be cost effective to rent an ICE vehicle just for th
Re: (Score:2)
I completely agree with your replies above. I'd like to expand/amplify just a bit.
If you do not have a single-family home or a (these are so rare) intelligent apartment setup an EV is NOT a good idea -- it's a terrible idea in fact. But the poster above shouldn't be crapping on EVs, he should be pissed that we haves are getting a great deal, and a better, safer car than him. He pays more for gas, more for maintenance, more for medical bills, more for fire damage (statistically speaking), etc. The origin
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I don't know about 'wealthy.' How many households in the US do not have multiple cars? Making one of them an EV is kind of a no-brainer, especially now that you can get one used for cheap.
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> hybrids are just the best of the two worlds: more ecological short distance while providing reliability and long distance when needed.
It really depends on how often you'll be taking those "long distance" trips. I travel outside the range of my EV so infrequently that I'd just prefer to fly instead anyway.
Re: (Score:2)
Hybrids are the worst of both worlds, not the best. EREVs you could argue are the BOBW, hybrids are high-complexity and lower efficiency for a less punchy/quiet/low-cost result.
Where are the mostly electric hybrids? (Score:2)
New hybrids should be electric with a small gas engine to recharge the battery, when needed (rarely). EV's should cost less then ICE vehicles, they have fewer and lower cost parts. If they cost more the manufacturers are doing it wrong.
Re: (Score:2)
> EV's should cost less then ICE vehicles, they have fewer and lower cost parts.
It's the battery. The only reason we did not have electric cars 100 years ago (they existed before ICE cars) is the battery.
EV minus battery should be cheaper. And the battery should be cheaper than gasoline.
In Australia, a BYD Atto 2 small SUV is around us$22k. So already cheaper than non-Chinese petrol competitors.
Cars used to be far more expensive in Australia - until they abolished the tariffs.
Re: (Score:2)
I agree in general. They're mostly all the same and all way too big, and a stupid shape to boot.
But try driving a used Bolt. They're cheap, get good range (they charge too slow for road tripping but fine on a 120v or 240v plug) and a good size.
New Bolts, when they start making them again, just support your argument -- they are only going to make the EUV/larger model going forward.
True For Me (Score:2)
> Around one-third of America's hybrid drivers "transition to a fully electric vehicle when they next switch cars."
Interesting. That was the case for me. Went from 22 years in a Prius to an Ioniq 6.
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> Hybrids are legacy auto companies trying to remain relevant.
By this point all (?) the legacy auto companies also have had at least some BEVs for 5+ years and HEVs for longer. As massive corporations they're relatively soul-less and are going to sell whatever sells and they can money on. on BEVs apparently even what they can't make money on...
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Their big problem is that they haven't figured out how to make money on EVs. Part of the problem is their dealer networks don't want to sell them due to the lower maintenance costs. That keeps the volume down to where they can't amortize the costs properly.
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Just get rid of dealer laws, circumstances have changed and they are probably one of the most egregious political lobbies right now, pure protectionism.
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Agreed.
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> But unfortunately many plug-in hybrid owners just treat them as hybrids and never bother to plug them in. That's pretty stupid, but studies show that many people really are that dumb.
Some people legitimately don't have a place to plug them in. I got an earful one time at an EA station where some mom and her kid showed up with their EV SUV. She began the conversation with "How do your like your Bolt?", and then immediately segued into a rant about how she can't wait to be rid of her EV since moving into an apartment and now having to deal with this specific EA location for all of her charging. And yeah, for the most part what you might've heard about lines at EA chargers and their lege
Re: (Score:2)
Tesla owners were plenty chatty back in 2015 when I got my Model S. Now there are just so many that it doesn't feel new anymore. I remember when we used to wave at each other when we say another Tesla, but that was a long time ago now.
But yes, EVs are great if you can plug in at home, but if you have on-street parking or are renting, they can be quite inconvenient.
Re: (Score:3)
If you cannot charge at home, their cost per mile goes up to the same as a gas car's or more.
Right now, if you don't own your home, or are not sure you'll be in a house for a long time, buying an EV is foolish.
But I think the right answer here is not to mistakenly downgrade EVs -- we should be making sure parking lots provide 120v plugs. 120v is all more than half of the US needs to handle their day-to-day driving, and is cheap to install. Remember -- EVs never, ever draw more than a $30 space heater on a
Re: (Score:2)
> If you cannot charge at home, their cost per mile goes up to the same as a gas car's or more.
In California, even if you can charge at home, the cost per mile is more than many gasoline-powered cars:
Model 3: 3.7 to 4.2 miles per kWh. PG&E residential service averages 45.33 cents average per kWh. That's 10.79 to 12.25 cents per mile.
My usual gas station is $3.90 per gallon. A Prius hybrid gets 56 miles per gallon. That's 6.9 cents per mile. Add to that an oil change for $100 every 5,000 miles on oil changes, which is 2 cents per mile, and the Prius hybrid is still 2 to 4 cents per mile cheape
Re: No. Just better mileage (Score:1)
Compared to a Prius, yes. Compared to my ICE, my EV saves money per mile. About Iâ(TM)ll spend 1/2 -2/3 of what Iâ(TM)ll pay on gas to charge my EV.
Re: (Score:2)
Well, if you can charge from solar the equation changes significantly-- closer to $0.09/kWh or $0.02/mile.
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That is all true except PG&E's EV2 plan has off-peak energy at 28.5 cents per kWh, which should cover most of the needs of people who charge at home. That rate makes it competitive with the Prius, even before you consider oil changes.
Really the two are close enough that the balance could easily change during the life of the car due to shifting prices for gas, electricity, or a mileage-based tax on EV's to pay for roads.
Re: (Score:2)
> PG&E residential service averages 45.33 cents average per kWh.
That's crazy? California has huge amounts of solar generation, but no cheap mid-day tariffs ?
I'm seeing 15c/kWh for SDG&E at night. Hang on, you have no choice. Privately owned for-profit state-protected monopolies -WTF?
Here in Perth Australia, same climate as LA, its 6c/kWr from 9am-3pm if you choose the appropriate tariff. (us0.36 peak)
So if you live in an apartment and can't install your own soalr panels, you can benefit form excess from others.
So I guess the reality in California is if you want
Re: (Score:3)
My household’s PHEV gets roughly 38-45 miles on electric only. Most days we use it, it doesn’t uses gas. We only fill up it’s tiny gas tank, 6 gallons, about every 6 weeks. Even on primarily gas it gets about 42 miles a gallon. That isn’t just better mileage. It electric with a gasoline backup and sometimes range extender. It is my wife’s primary commuter.
We also have a ICE SUV. That thing gets about 20 mpg with its 16 gallon tank. When we need to haul things it’s grea
Re: (Score:1)
Hybrids and plug-in hybrids to boot, are indeed not EVs. They have all the complexity of an ICE car + the complexity of an EV. They are frankly nuts.
EREV cars should replace them in the very near future. People won't really notice the difference, and EREVs are cheaper to make, less complex, and give you a more performant car with less emissions for less money than a hybrid.
Unless of course, you buy the idea that dealers want complexity because they make some of their money on service/oil changes, and the
Re: (Score:2)
> Hybrids and plug-in hybrids to boot, are indeed not EVs. They have all the complexity of an ICE car + the complexity of an EV. They are frankly nuts.
To the contrary. Plug-in hybrids have all the advantages of an EV, with all the advantages of a gas car.
"The complexity of an EV" you mention is nearly zero. Electric motors are really really simple . The real downside of an EV is that the range is directly proportional to battery mass. The vast majority of car use in the United States is under 35 miles per day. You simply don't need a huge battery for 90 percent of car usage. But, you want to take care of that remaining 10%. So, the gas engine solves tha
Re: No. Just better mileage (Score:2)
They will plug them in if that will improve the performance.