What the Linux Desktop Really Needs To Challenge Windows (theregister.com)
- Reference: 0180439879
- News link: https://linux.slashdot.org/story/25/12/22/1840258/what-the-linux-desktop-really-needs-to-challenge-windows
- Source link: https://www.theregister.com/2025/12/22/what_linux_desktop_really_needs/
Linus Torvalds has long agreed with this hypothesis. "We have way too many desktops," Vaughan-Nichols notes, summarizing Torvalds' position. The deeper issue lies in software delivery: traditional package managers like DEB and RPM "simply don't scale for the desktop," forcing distro builders to constantly rebuild programs for their specific environments. Containerized solutions like Flatpaks, Snaps and AppImages should solve this by bundling dependencies into universal packages, but the Linux community remains divided over which to adopt.
Linux Mint, for instance, refuses Snap because "Canonical has too much control over the Snap store." Hardware support further complicates this challenges, the veteran journalist writes. While Dell sells Ubuntu machines and specialist vendors like System76 and TUXEDO Computers cater to enthusiasts, "none of them make it easy" for mainstream buyers, and no major OEM strongly backs Linux. Torvalds has pointed to Chromebooks and Android as the model: Linux won on smartphones because "there's a single, unified platform with a unified way to install programs."
[1] https://www.theregister.com/2025/12/22/what_linux_desktop_really_needs/
Why would it? (Score:3, Insightful)
Why would an open source OS challenge Windows?
Perhaps a few like to, but I think it's a misconception that most OS/distros are in it to challenge Windows. This creating of a non-existent conflict is so old.
Re: (Score:3)
> Why would an open source OS challenge Windows?
Because Windows is rapidly ascending the enshittification curve, and running it is self harm.
Re: (Score:2)
Choosing which system is a good replacement is on the user. Why should Linux distributions change, because Windows users have more pressure to find a matching one? There may be niches to create new ones (think "Lindows") but the existing ones are fine and will still be fine if the Windows users do not choose them.
Re: (Score:1)
Besides windows being a bit of a sluggish mess, I’m not particularly fond of its default window manager. Developer are replacing the os part by running linux under wsl, maybe there should be a way to replace the window manger as well? Oh wait, what’s left? :)
Re: (Score:2)
Oh wait, what’s left? :)
Copilot :D
Re: (Score:3)
The mindset that for Linux to win, Windows has to lose. Linux does not care really about beating Windows. But I have found is that more and more of the server space is being taken over by Linux as fewer and fewer software relies on Windows specifically. Also Windows has almost 0% of the smartphone market which has Android (based on Linux) in a clear commanding lead.
Re: Why would it? (Score:3)
Thats because servers are run by professionals while desktop PCs are run by the average Joe/Jane who does not want to learn how to recompile a kernel.
Re: (Score:3)
> Thats because servers are run by professionals while desktop PCs are run by the average Joe/Jane who does not want to learn how to recompile a kernel.
Which I haven't had to do for 3 decades. Strawman much?
Re: (Score:2)
Most Linux distros install without the need to recompile. I have had to do it in very niche circumstances like specific niche hardware. One time it was because the MIPS CPU I was using needed a specific compile flag.
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Wow, huh. My late Mom ran Linux for a decade and a half. No wonder her electricity bills were so high... all that kernel compilation she insisted on doing... LOL.
Re: Why would it? (Score:2)
I'm old enough to remember Linus Torvalds say his goal was "world domination". Linux beating Windows has been a thing since Windows XP/ 2000 era.
Re: (Score:2)
But are you old enough to remember me saying my goal was "world Domination" on a DEC10 over DecNet?
Before Windows was invented.
The truth is It is us oldies that brought you Unix/Linux.
Take your "old people can't do it" and stick it. My mother learned to type on a cardboard picture of a keyboard during WW2 and was an Apple][ user, and later Mac user - til she died.
No, I have never compiled a Linux kernel, and I have used it since version 0.99.
I HAVE compiled many BSD kernels - but that was because I
Re: (Score:2)
> I'm old enough to remember Linus Torvalds say his goal was "world domination".
That was more of a joke than a threat. Torvalds was expressing the potential of Linux, not an imperative. But in many ways his jocular goal has been fulfilled. Linux is everywhere, even if it's not on most users' desktops/laptops.
> Linux beating Windows has been a thing since Windows XP/ 2000 era.
Earlier than that, and with a 4-digit UID, you ought to be old enough to remember 1995, which is when Torvalds quipped about world domination.
Re: (Score:2)
He violated the rule that if you want to dominate the market you don't tell the market what to do, you meet what the market wants.
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The funny thing, Microsoft doesn't really care anymore if Linux wins/loses on the desktop. Clientside Windows is pretty much a necessary evil, and Microsoft makes their money from XBox, Azure stuff, and server products. Most PCs already come with MS licensed, so people already paid their ticket, and Microsoft doesn't really need to care after that.
Overall, Linux gaining is a good thing. Microsoft has already won the desktop war, and having the needle move a few percentage points for Linux installs, isn't
Re:Why would it? (Score:4, Insightful)
I agree.
The point of OSS is to have an alternative for people to choose.
There are many arguments about the "best" OS.
Some people investigate and choose Linux.
I'm happy that there are a lot of people who just go with the crowd and leave my Linux alone.
I am happy with the greater security and functionality of a less popular OS.
Re: (Score:3)
Indeed some dumbed-down "desktop GUI", forced upon everyone in the name of "challenging" a monopolist, would be a stupid move, just making the OS less attractive for those that are not technically challenged and able to make their own decisions on what to use.
Windows never needed to compete with anyone on PCs, and especially not by trying to be attractive for users, because the majority of users was always forced to use Windows by some employer. And those not particularly interested in technology for their
Re: (Score:2)
> Why would an open source OS challenge Windows?
Considering current events, Linux may not have to challenge Windows, as Windows is challenging itself . The decision by MS to orphan perfectly good hardware that was running Windows 10 but cannot run Windows 11 has driven people to install alternate OSes like Linux.
> Perhaps a few like to, but I think it's a misconception that most OS/distros are in it to challenge Windows. This creating of a non-existent conflict is so old.
I agree that alternate OSes should not try to out-Windows Windows. But at least they should offer a bridge to those who wish to change from Windows to another OS. Andy many open-source projects aim to do that, with: a similar look-and-feel (like L
Re: (Score:2)
Forcing me to switch to win11 and buy all new hardware and do it at a time of ridiculously high prices for things like RAM may push me to linux at home.
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>> The decision by MS to orphan perfectly good hardware that was running Windows 10 but cannot run Windows 11 has driven people to install alternate OSes like Linux.
> Has it? Has it really "driven people to install alternate OSes like Linux"?
[1]Yes. [linkedin.com]
Many people don't want to stop using hardware that still does what they need done. You seem to treat vendors who try to force upgrades after 7 years as though they're doing consumers a favor. They aren't. They're imposing obsolescence to benefit their own bottom line or that of their allies.
[1] https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/linux-desktop-adoption-hits-new-high-whats-really-driving-mark-murphy-6b4qc
"We have way too many desktops" (Score:2, Insightful)
True. Take a lesson from Apple. BSD isn't much different than Linux. They put all their efforts into a UI that is consistent usable.
Re: "We have way too many desktops" (Score:2)
This is the solution needed to get Linux onto the desktop. Yes Linux is a hobby project. Businesses do not want millions of daily value running on something without commercial support. People want software thats easy to use. People know windows and Mac and so find it easy.
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" something without commercial support"
Have you ever tried to get support from Microsoft? They just put you on hold till you give up. OTOH I have had Open Source authors email me bug fixes to test with in a couple of days of reporting actual bugs. For anything else RTFM!
The real problem with free software is:
IT DOES NOT HAVE A MARKETING BUDGET
And most people are too stupid to buy anything that is not rammed down their throats by "influencers".
Re: (Score:2)
Maybe that's a good thing. Everyone regrets when their quiet cool thing gets discovered by the mainstream and destroyed. Let people actively seek Linux, just so that the software companies with big legal budgets won't lobby Congress to demand hardware DRM, AI bloat, ad insertion stacks, and other crap.
It's the nerds, stupid. (Score:4, Interesting)
> argues that the proliferation of Linux desktops -- more than a dozen significant interfaces exist today, and DistroWatch lists "upwards of a hundred" -- makes it nearly impossible for ordinary users to know where to start.
Thank you...
I worked in a Unix shop in the 1990s and I know almost nothing about how to choose / install /administer Linux today. The choices may as well be infinite, and by definition an amateur can't deal with its features via a simple GUI, so he's lost without exerting nerdy effort. I get it, *nix is powerful, but most users don't need nearly that. Since there's no path toward standardization and hobbyists can't leave well enough alone (not to mention the bugs created by changes), I think it'll simply remain where it is when it comes to general user acceptance. Too bad...
Re: (Score:1)
nonsense. the distro war has been won, by Ubuntu and things that are Ubuntu with lipstick that can run the same .deb
Plenty of people have popped in a Linux Mint (for example) install media and run with it, no tech knowledge needed if there is a network with dhcp and/or SLAAC
If you use some fringe distro and struggle with it that's on you. You're easily distracted.
Re: (Score:3)
I am non-stupid, so guess again. I recently installed Ubuntu in a virtual machine...that part was smooth. Finding stuff was the typical (but shouldn't be typical!) new-OS pain.
Then there was some error box that popped up upon every boot--I never resolved it because I didn't want to give it the nerdy effort and only planned to use it for a short time.
I desired no password to be involved, but "Sorry, that ease-of-use is not an option in this all-powerful OS."
Then, there was some issue where I
Raises hand (Score:4, Funny)
> What the Linux Desktop Really Needs To Challenge Windows
Arbitrary unnecessary hardware "requirements" and forced cloud accounts to install ... ?
Or did you mean challenge in a good way? ;-)
The above two things are why I'm switching to Linux (Mint) full time rather than "upgrading" to Windows 11, I don't really need more reasons.
Desktop Linux needs to stop sucking is all (Score:4, Informative)
I use command-line Linux every day. Last month I tried to get my 2015 MacBook running a Linux desktop. Turns out a kernel regression broke the video driver I need. After I worked through that, by disabling the video driver, I found that standby was not triggered by a lid closure. I also found that after manually invoking standby it was impossible to resume. And finally, changes in charging status, like hitting fully charged, would cause the system to turn on. So even if I was ok with a full boot every time I used the system, the act of charging the system would leave the system fully powered up at the crypt screen with the lid closed.
Similar experience as my past experiences in the mid 90s and mid 00s.
Re: (Score:3)
You should try it on PC hardware. That people have been able to get Linux working tolerably well on Apple hardware is a testament to their fortitude and bullheadedness, given how hard Apple has made it. I like Apple's laptops, and I'd rather run Linux than OS X, but it's just not worth it. Running Linux on a PC laptop or desktop is great, though. Suspend/resume and even hibernation work perfectly on the desktop Debian machine I'm typing this on.
You can fool all of the people some of the time... (Score:2)
Half of the people can be part right all of the time
Some of the people can be all right part of the time
But all of the people can't be all right all of the time
I think Abraham Lincoln said that
"I'll let you be in my dreams if I can be in yours"
I said that
- Bob Dylan
Here we go again (Score:3)
Some version of this title/question has shown up about every year for decades. What's changed? The distributed organization of the open source community is quite intentionally the opposite of a single, structured company. Without such a single, focused vision of what the desktop should be, across the whole community, which would most likely be at odds with many of its constituents, this is not likely to happen.
The biggest problem (Score:5, Insightful)
is it isn't easy to use for the average user. The reason why people like apple is because anybody's grandma can use it. The reason why people like windows is you don't have to understand a command line do run windows. The UI's are polished. Linux and FOSS can't figure out that good software has polish. Not many FOSS wants to do this and can't afford it, commercial can. Not many programmers want to spend time polishing up a program, they want to code and create new features. And I'm going out on a limb, but I'm willing to bet that many projects do not have dedicated UI people that gather feedback and do product testing.
The average user doesn't want to look at a readme.txt, they want to push a button and have software that is easy and intuitive to use. Do programmers care about that? Not really, they can go and re-write the software themselves.
The last problem is that software is not available for Linux but that is less of an issue in recent years.
If Linux wants to be usable they need to fix those issues.
Re: (Score:2)
You don't have to use a command line to run desktop Linux.
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You don't have to use a command line to run desktop Linux.
No. But you do need to know what time zone you are in and what your name is, and then make up a password.
IME, most people can't even manage to make up a password, and half of them don't even know what planet they are on, let alone what a timezone is!
Last time I used windows, I think it set the date to "1 January 1970" and I could still use it. How hard would it be for Linux to ask the Internet what timezone it is in, and use that for a default?
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No, you do, if you want it to run properly. Want to change the functionality of that third mouse button in ubuntu on your laptop trackpad? You have to use the CLI, it's not polished. Just try using ubuntu without ever using the CLI. Eventually if you want to install things, you'll have open up a package manager in the CLI. You and me can do that just fine. The grandma down the street gets to make a call to a techie.
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I think you have a common read of the situation, but I don't think it's really what's going on.
Some linux software lacks a gloss that you may get with Apple, that's true. However, the idea that things are better and work better over in Microsoft and Apple land, is fairly clear that's not true, based on what people say. I hear lots of grumbling from MS and Apple users.
You learned (whatever). You're lazy (that's normal). So you like what you know and you know what you like. People don't learn by concepts, the
Re: (Score:2)
I agree with you on moving buttons, yeah that's hard for some people. But what is really hard is in some FOSS when you have to click and interact with 3 to 5 items to get the same job done that you could do in 1-2 click for polished software. Take freecad for example. It takes a read of a manual or watching a youtube video just to use it. The workflow is arcane compared to some commercial tools. Yeah its free and the UI is many times improved over what it used to be, but it's still not up to 1-2 clicks. Yo
Re: (Score:2)
So I think we're both (all) techies here, so I admit I have some difficulty understanding why or how lazy people are. This is not a slur, we both know good programmers are lazy, it makes you look for efficiencies, improvements in the process.
I guess where I get off is how our laziness means we willingly indulge in dependency on software. I'll assume you are correct.. I'm sure you are. The main software for lazy people I know (knew) was Adobe Photoshop. The jackasses I knew would easily amputate a testicle b
Re: (Score:2)
I would argue that overall it is easier than windows. But the correct word is it is DIFFERENT from windows, meaning there is a learning curve. When something is different, there is no getting around the fact that someone has to have the will to stick with it to learn the ins and outs of the differences. The issue is not overall complexity, it is unwillingness to learn something different by most of the population. Yes, linux can do many things cost free that are very very complex. But normal PC usage, like
apps (Score:2)
The Linux desktop needs apps, polish and hardware support. Apps the most.
Why Android won (Score:3)
It's a real operating system, not just a group of projects bolted together by a team of people from Google. Same with ChromeOS.
The best path forward for "desktop Linux," IMHO, is for KDE to formally enter the OS market via a rebranded Neon that is highly opinionated about ABI compatibility, Snap vs FlatPak/etc. and stuff like that. KDE is by far the DE most ready to go toe to toe with Windows both with users and developers because Qt is night and day more robust than its competition AFAICT.
Nothing! (Score:1)
Linux is for Users, Windows is for Consumers.
F-No to any atomic package manager (Score:2)
"DEB and RPM do not scale for the desktop". That is the most bullshit line I have heard in a very very long time. It is not that they don't scale for the desktop. DEB and RPM are much better for the health of the desktop than any atomic package manager like SNAP, appimage or flatpak. Atomic package managers are just because of laziness. Just an extension of the same problem as application bloat in other ways. It is nothing more than devs not wanting to put in the time to optimize their installers. They alwa
Re: F-No to any atomic package manager (Score:2)
I put together a prototype that allows you to use containerized Debian packages a few years back: [1]debexec [github.com] However, folks didn't seem interested in it. I personally think that moving further away from package management is a mistake and that we should be making packages better instead.
[1] https://github.com/debexec/debexec
Re: (Score:2)
Yeah, that's bullshit, and idiotic, as you say. +1.
When people say uninformed things like that, they lose credibility. Not that SJVN is a luminary.
Apt is head and shoulders better than anything Microsoft, especially when you go to remove things.
AppImages with no dependencies are a good way to "try before you buy", which can be useful, but Snap is for garbage for many reasons.
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I dont care WHICH developer or maintainer it is, whether it is the dev/maintainer of the app, or the dev/maintainer of the version of the native package manager for a given distribution like apt for debian derivatives. But regardless, I go to extreme lengths to keep atomic package managers, ALL of them, off of my machine. I'll use native package managers that respect my disk space and try their best to actually optimize for best performance, but most of all work seamlessly with data not sandboxed to a singl
Game Support and MS Office Apps (Score:2)
If MS Office were available on Linux and games had direct support (not just interpretative engines) then Linux would take off. MS office on MacOS is partly why MacOS is a viable OS platform. Unfortunately, what MS did with its office formats makes other office app suites unable to perfectly render its files
Re: (Score:2)
> If MS Office were available on Linux and games had direct support (not just interpretative engines) then Linux would take off. MS office on MacOS is partly why MacOS is a viable OS platform. Unfortunately, what MS did with its office formats makes other office app suites unable to perfectly render its files
I'll buy that assertion. Although, I've recently switched from Office (2010 to using LibreOffice - in preparation for switching from Windows 10 to Linux Mint full-time - and found the latter acceptable, though some tweaking and re-work was needed, especially for the spreadsheets. My Publisher files (mostly greeting cards) are another matter and even using Scribus will be a bunch of work to migrate. Having Office on Linux would make things much easier. I don't mind the effort and self re-training, but c
Re: Game Support and MS Office Apps (Score:2)
15 year old office on 10 year old OS, I'm not surprised Linux satisfied your needs.
The average Windows user has NO IDEA how to install an OS, if their computer goes tits-up, they either call a friend, take it to a repair shop (someone is going to them, they aren't charities!), or simply replace the computer - they don't download an iso, burn an image (dvd or flash drive) and work thru an install.
Telling them how easy it is to install Linux means nothing to them, it's like telling someone how easy it is to c
Re: (Score:2)
> 15 year old office on 10 year old OS, I'm not surprised Linux satisfied your needs.
Well, I'm a simple guy. :-) But, to be fair, they (still) work just fine. Newer isn't always better.
My Windows 10 system is a Dell XPS 420 a friend gave me (that then had Win7 on it) and it runs Windows well, even with just 8GB RAM. I did replace the HDD with an SSD (and added a SATA-3 PCIe card for it) when the HDD looked like it was going to (finally) flake out and that did give me a good performance boost. My Linux Mint system was built using an ASRock Z77 Extreme3 motherboard, and EVGA SuperNOVA
Re: (Score:2)
> the Linux Power Mode set to "Adaptive"
s/Linux/BSD/
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I doubt games will ever bother with direct support now that Proton works so well. Devs aren't going to release open-source versions of their game engines, and they aren't going to provide and support compiled versions for a dozen different popular distros. The glibc problem makes it really difficult to release binaries for Linux, and many of the containerized packages have performance hits or require external configuration due to their security model. It is just so much simpler to target Windows and make
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Have no fear - very soon Europe will do what should have been done years ago, and understand that Word files beocme unreadable after a while so you ahve to pay MS for a new version of Windows.
If your data is important or valuable you should be using open document formats because then they will still be readable when you need them to prove something in courts - like you own your house or something!
Most Governments ought to refuse files in Word format, and fairly soon Europe will do this.
As IBM used to sa
Technology doesn't fix politics (Score:2)
You can solve all these problems you want and Microsoft will use nasty little Monopoly tactics to prevent Linux from getting anywhere.
If you want Linux on the desktop then you have to vote for Democrat politicians or your local political equivalent. Basically you need to vote for somebody who will do trust busting. You also do probably need to pay attention to primary elections. There aren't as many of the really corrupt corporate Democrats as they're used to be however there are still some and if you c
Re: Technology doesn't fix politics (Score:2)
> If you want Linux on the desktop then you have to vote for Democrat politicians or your local political equivalent.
What the absolute F are you talking about?
Democrats gave countless billions to the pharmaceutical industry...
Democrats gave countless billions to the health insurance industry...
They tried to give billions to EV makers, but Elon came out as conservative...
I am not arguing Republicans are any better, I'm just pushing back on your proposition that "Democrats are Trust-busters"...
You talk like Democrats have never held control over both houses of Congress and the Oval Office since windows took over the desktop
slow day? (Score:3)
We had this discussion in 2023. And in 2021. 2020, 2019, 2017, 2015, 2013, 2011, 2009, 2008, 2007 and I think 2005. Or so.
Oh dear, poor users don't know where to start. I'm sure that is the one and only thing that stops the entire world from switching to Linux. Certainly not the lack of games, business applications or compelling reasons to switch from the shit that they currently run and know is shit but at least they know that shit.
Linux has won the server OS wars. When's the last time anyone had a serious discussion of using whatever the last windows server OS version is for anything critical? When's the last time you logged into a Solaris machine?
The desktop is a different game, always has been, always will be. It's a game run not by technical excellent. I mean, exhibit A: DOS and Windows, who were never, ever, the best OS - just the most popular one. But on the desktop, what matters is if the users can use it (it's right there in the word) and that hinges on two things: a) familiarity and b) availability of applications.
a) is a lot more serious than most of us nerds realize. Think about any random corporation. Let's say 5000 office employees currently using Windows. Re-training them to use Linux instead might take just a few hours for the tech-savvy ones, and let's say a day for the less so. Add twice that as a period where productivity is at least somewhat hampered by them having to look up again or ask a colleague how to do X. Suddenly you're looking at something like 30-50 thousand hours of lost productivity. And these are not minimum-wage people. So your bill is what, half a million?
b) this is the applications the business actually uses, not some Open Source alternative. If the graphics designers use Photoshop, they need that, not Gimp. Tons and tons of enterprise software is windows-only. And there we are with the chicken-and-egg problem.
Seriously, "the Linux desktop is too fragmented" is bullshit. All things considered, that's the least worry of anyone. And one of the greatest strengths. I know that I would've given up completely on Linux a lot sooner than I actually did if there had only been KDE and Gnome, and not Enlightenment and other interesting options pushing the boundary of the possible. Heck, E would still run circles around almost all UIs today.
Re: (Score:2)
> Seriously, "the Linux desktop is too fragmented" is bullshit.
You're not wrong, but it's definitely a contributing factor. The average user can basically just run out get get Windows, and for better or worse they know what they're getting. To them, Windows is Windows is Windows.
But it's more difficult for them to "run out and get Linux", partly because it's like the toothpaste aisle at the supermarket- 137 different options and they *genuinely* don't know what the differences are or why it would matter. They're afraid of making the 'wrong' choice, and I get it- I was
The Paradox of Choice? No. (Score:2)
> Linux desktop remains hamstrung by the same fragmentation that killed Unix decades ago. Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols, writing in The Register, argues that the proliferation of Linux desktops -- more than a dozen significant interfaces exist today, and DistroWatch lists "upwards of a hundred" -- makes it [1]nearly impossible for ordinary users to know where to start [theregister.com].
I don't buy the "The Paradox of Choice" argument here. Yes, there are a *bunch* of distros - probably too many - but to each their own. Unless you have a super specific need or want, any of the top 5 or 10 will almost certainly work for you. Just pick one. If you want to try something different, stand up a VM and try it out; if you like that one better, migrating is pretty simple. That may sound complicated for non-techies, but it's really not. A few Google searches - and some actual reading :-) - is
[1] https://www.theregister.com/2025/12/22/what_linux_desktop_really_needs/
Re: (Score:2)
Admittedly, it is annoying when things are just a little bit different between systems;
Which is why all makes of car are exactly identical!
Or can you tell a Fiat 500 from a Ford F150?
Re: (Score:2)
> Admittedly, it is annoying when things are just a little bit different between systems;
> Which is why all makes of car are exactly identical!
> Or can you tell a Fiat 500 from a Ford F150?
Sure, but a Fiat 500 and Ford F150 are completely different types of vehicles from a functional standpoint. A Sun vs. HP workstation or SystemV vs BSD Unix vs. Linux, are less so, from a functional standpoint anyway.
On the other hand, I have a 2001 Honda Civic Ex Coupe and 2002 Honda CR-V EX (both 5-sp manuals) and the interior controls are almost identical.
Four main issues (Score:2)
There are four main issues, the fragmentation, politicalization, software support and OEM support.
OEM support might be the biggest overall factor, if companies like Dell, HP, Lenovo, and others shipped Linux by default, within a decade you'd have mass market penetration on the desktop.
The second major issue, software support, companies just refuse to make Linux/Unix variants of their programs. Microsoft is a great example, where they either ignore Linux/Unix, or, make the Linux/Unix variant so feature
This the age of ecosystem (Score:2)
Any new Linux ecosystem would need phones as well as laptops/desktops, a decent revenue stream ... and a hook to get people in. Valve has a really good hook and revenue stream, but they lack the dreams of world domination like say Mark Shuttleworth has.
Merge Canonical and Valve, then start copying every good idea from Apple, Google and Microsoft. Virtualisation for security (Microsoft) and stability (ChromeOS). Chromebook hardware/firmware development model. Userfriendly disk encryption (Microsoft and Apple
FIFNIC (Score:2)
Linux has problems perhaps Fixed In Forums--Not in Code. These kinds of bugs should have been squashed years ago.
The Following are on Mint 22.2:
Lenovo P15 Gen 2. Bluetooth Disconnect/Connect Looping, completely unusable.
HP Desktop Computers: 3 Flatpack problems, seems better now. Video modes underutilized.
AMD 3900x/Nvidia 4070. RND warnings on boot. Machine often fails to wake, corrupted one drive.
LG Gram: Runs pretty well, but errors on boot.
Lenovo X220 Network doesn't not reconnect manually. Most ot
Re: (Score:2)
Opps, I forgot, I could not get my Epson V500 scanner working, with Epson drivers, SANE, or anything else.
What Linux needs (Score:2)
What Linux needs is the exact opposite of what Linux is based on. Linux is based on freedom and variety, while mainstream adoption needs standardization and hand-holding.
To achieve Joe Sixpack-level adoption, Linux needs 1) a standard interface (desktop), and 2) someone to call when shit doesn't work right.
Both of those will be hard, especially the second one.
nothing (Score:2)
linux doesn't need to challenge windows at all. choice is good. don't fix what isn't broken and stop confabulating nonsense.
> it nearly impossible for ordinary users to know where to start
well, that's really easy, honey: start with the default desktop your distro provides, it is guaranteed to be fully functional and you don't have to do a thing at all. eventually, if you like and whenever you feel like it, start exploring/testing others and keep the one that you like best. there's a whole world to explore and it's mostly really idiot proof. unlike the internet regarding
Problem extends to software vendors (Score:2)
Windows is my daily driver for exactly one (well, two) reason(s) -- availability of software that is supported on Windows and not on Linux. I rely on Quicken Classic (a horrible product by the way, but the only game in town) and tax software (HR Block in my case).
Yes, both ran (slowly) on WINE when I tried them a few years ago. However neither vendor supports such use and April 15 at 23:59 is NOT a time that I want to discover that the latest HR Block fix "broke" the product on WINE (HR Block is already qui
The desktop is not the problem (Score:2)
It's the software that runs under the OS
For some, linux is fine
Just about every software tool I use for CAD, CAM, 3D printing, laser cutting, CNC machine operation, photo, audio and video editing only runs on Windows
Linux Needs More Hardware Testing, Less VM Testing (Score:2)
So, the reviewers download an .iso, and run it as a VM for a few days. To get a sense of the user experience, you need at least a month running an OS--Only. To get a sense of UI, you cannot use the command-line to work through the issues. Though, the command-line and GUI coexist quite nicely on most CAD programs; it can be done.
The problem is "desktops" - plural (Score:2)
The world doesn't need more than 2 (perhaps 3) Linux desktops, yet it has them, and the cost of those -- in programmer time, in debugging, in compatibility, in complexity, in bugs, etc. -- is enormous. All of those things are being wasted because of the enormous egos in play: nobody wants to give up their special project.
,
But that needs to happen: almost all of those desktops need to be abandoned in favor of: (1) a desktop that resembles Windows enough that a typical user can sit down in front of it and
Linux needs a must have (Score:2)
People tend not to change unless there is a reason. While many here find the windows telemetry and now AI as a disaster to avoid, the average person just doesn't care. They get spied on by their phone, their car, so why not the computer. Nope, linux needs something that is highly coveted that only works in linux. In a way I am the opposite of the average guy. I've used *NIX most of my life, so why would I want to use windows. Especially since the only windows feature that I can't get in linux is games. Some
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Network capable displays.
Things that are bothersome as a Linux user (Score:2)
I've been using Linux and not Windows since 1995.
These are some of the issues I face as a Linux user:
1. Multiple GUI's all of which which are not quite up to snuff as far as visual presentation. We need a new common GUI core which is able to rival Windows or Apple.
2. Institutions which don't play nice with Linux apps. Finance programs are one example. You can't load back transactions into it (At least in the USA) because the banks only want to play with Quicken. I think they hide under the guise of security
It's plug-n-play (Score:2)
It's not fragmentation or anything else. It's the ease of use. I recently built a new PC and I attempted to go full Linux desktop. I tried Kubuntu, Mint, and Zorin. They all came in sorely lacking in the ease of use, plug-n-play areas. While I have 20 years of working with Linux, I REALLY do not want to wrestle with settings when I am trying to play a game, or pair my bluetooth devices, or worry about which video cable I need to use. There's a million small things that on their own no seasoned Linux u
What, again? (Score:2)
This story or variations of it pop up every now and then.
Linux keeps advancing and Windows keeps enshittifying. So nothing much to see.
On a technical level, Linux is still lacking (Score:2)
A few basic things which come to mind:
Resource management sucks under pressure. It's still possible in the present year to lock up a typical Linux desktop (running with default settings) by copying large amounts of data to/from slow USB drives. I shouldn't have to ionice when using cp to stop things hanging. Likewise for memory management when under extreme memory pressure, the system has no idea what needs preserving to maintain an interactive desktop and what doesn't. You can stress test Windows and ma
Windows is just bad (Score:2)
I sometimes use Windows, I don't understand how anyone would willingly use this. The window management is terrible, settings are a mess, no visibility or control to just let you use your computer as you see fit.
And that's despite most Linux DEs being a huge mess.
Why does it has to challenge? (Score:2)
Some of the core advantages are the differences, not the similarities.
The article already mentions snap. Snap is the attempt to make the ecosystem more friendly for vendors who do not care about distributions and their packaging and QA criteria, but want to push a setup.exe to users. Linux works so well, because not every program comes with a setup.exe that can do anything in the system, but programs have maintainers which create packages that install software with the minimal changes to the system.
If a Deb
pile of pet projects (Score:1)
Linux is a pile of pet projects. Too bad if you don't like my pet, make your own then. The real limitation is familiar software and ease of using things like printers. Linux is for pet builders and always will be.
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never had any printing/scanning/copier issues with Linux. Just takes two minutes to research Linux support before buying something.
Familiar software? been using the office and email client on Linux for years, very familiar. On the other hand, copilot bogging down its machine watching the user's screen and popping up the new Clippy on steroids is alien
Re: pile of pet projects (Score:3, Insightful)
The average Joe or Jane doesnt want to do research on Linux support. Things just work on windows and Mac.
Re: pile of pet projects (Score:4, Informative)
That's funny because coworkers in my office were always complaining that the office printer would disappear from the list of configured printers in Windows. That never happened on my Linux laptop.
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typical "i didn't have an issue therefor i'll just assume nobody will ever have this issue" response which doesn't hold truth at scale.
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My point isn't meant to imply that Linux never has these issues because I've never encountered them. Instead, it was meant to show that Windows isn't immune from these types of problems either.
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> The average Joe or Jane doesnt want to do research on Linux support. Things just work on windows and Mac.
The Windows 10 partition on my laptop doesn't "work" anymore like the Linux partition does (and Windows 11 won't work at all). If I ever do boot into Windows on that machine again, I'm going to have to airgap it (no, I'm not going to jump through their increasingly silly hoops to "extend" support).
I guess the average Joe would just keep running that unpatched OS as usual indefinitely, since ignorance is bliss.
Re: pile of pet projects (Score:2)
Hajahahahahhahahahaa
Things just work
Tell us you know nothing about Windows without telling us
Re: pile of pet projects (Score:2)
Hahahahahahahaha
Tech literate
You guys are hilarious
Re: pile of pet projects (Score:2)
> Good luck with your pre-win 10 printer and support for 11; it may not be there and may not work at all. We've got the pile of dead things at work to prove it.
FFS, Pre-win 10 devices? Like what, IDE drives, parallel port printers, SCSI scanners, and serial modems?
Pre-Win 10 devices means pre-2015...
If your printer required your desktop to do page image processing, you could very well be SOL, but if you bought a postscript printer or a PCL printer it would very likely just work under Win 11 as a generic device, for example. Many cheap laser and ink jet printers required the computer they were attached to to do the 'heavy lifting' to print pages...
Re: yeah (Score:2)
And you expect a middle aged man or woman to figure understand that? And they're somewhat technically competent. And the 80 year old who still can't figure out their flip phone?
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80? How about some 20 yr old who has never programmed or debugged anything in their life? They are used to things working out of the box.
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> For scanning, you put your ssh keys into the printer and it will scp the files to your desktop when you scan them
You had me until there. I am pretty sure this is a troll that's going over 95% of people's heads, but if not then ... no. that is not an acceptable use care for a typical home office.
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> never had any printing/scanning/copier issues with Linux. Just takes two minutes to research Linux support before buying something.
My two cents: legacy support for printers has been better in Linux than in Windows. I have an old HP Deskjet 460 that no longer works in Windows (no driver) but works just fine in any Linux distribution I try it on.
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> The real limitation is familiar software and ease of using things like printers.
I don't know what you use but CUPS has unified and simplified printing across Linux and Unix platforms since the early 2000s. Windows printing unfortunately can be a mess as it relies on drivers from manufacturers. Case in point, I had a Samsung printer/scanner/copier. It ran fine in Linux, MacOS, and Windows. Then HP acquired the Samsung print business. Drivers became buggy. Drivers tries to install unnecessary applications like HP Smart App as some functions simply do not work without it. Meanwhile printi
Re: pile of pet projects (Score:2, Interesting)
What Linux needs is users, a lot more - and to get those users they need to have support from major software vendors, and that support needs to be publicized widely. This BS "AbiLibreOpen Office" is just as good as MS Office doesn't cut it - people that simply want to use MS Office have no interest in learning something new, and price isn't an issue for end-users... they are running a ten year old copy of Office on a Win 10 computer, their current system costs them nothing, so switching to Linux is just a c
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Sometimes I wonder if that is a double-edged sword. If software vendors ran the show, we might wind up with a bloated distro just like Windows, full of DRM under the pretenses of running games, and stuffed to the gills with ad insertion vectors. Privacy would be shot.
We saw this before -- AOSP versus how Android is on devices, with all the privacy emplacements short-circuited by non-uninstallable apps.
Then, don't mention how some software vendors would want Linux to be rootless, just so their shenanigans
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As soon as you start bundling dependencies, you may as well start staticly compiling the program and dispensince with the notion of libraries entirely and save the memory overhead by having 20000 different versions of zlib on the hard drive.
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I hate looking for recommendations for a version of linux and getting literally dozens of versions tossed at me. Articles are constantly mentioning versions I've never heard of before. I have to wonder how committed the open source community is to supporting any of these. I don't want to commit myself to some version only to find out that the OS community is no longer updating it a year later. My feeling is the Linux world has spread itself too thin and been too open to endless versions and forks.
Then t
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In the last 15 years, whenever I've set up a printer (which I've done 4 or 5 times) with Linux machines, it was an absolute pleasure. Everything was detected and Just Worked.
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most consumer printers are easier with Linux. Last time I wanted to install a printer, I plugged it in and went to systemsettings to select the appropriate driver and it was fully installed and configured with sane defaults. I printed a test page and everything went well. In Windows it took a while to download the driver disable all third-party tools it wanted to install and then had an unfamiliar vendor-specific interface to configure the page layout.