Mark Carney Criticised For Using British Spellings In Canadian Documents (theguardian.com)
- Reference: 0180399575
- News link: https://news.slashdot.org/story/25/12/16/2159219/mark-carney-criticised-for-using-british-spellings-in-canadian-documents
- Source link: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/dec/16/mark-carney-british-spellings-canada
> Mark Carney says that amid a fundamental shift to the nature of globalization, his government will catalyze the growth in both the public and private sector. But Canadian linguists say that's a problem. Language experts have [1]called out the Canadian prime minister's growing "utilization" of British spellings in key documents -- including the recent federal budget and a press release issued following a meeting with Donald Trump.
>
> Carney, who served as the governor of the bank of England for seven years, appears to have run afoul of Canadian linguistic norms, returning to his home country with a penchant for using 's' instead of 'z'- a hallmark of British spellings. In an [2]open letter (PDF) chastising the prime minister, six linguists have asked his office, the Canadian government and parliament to stick to Canadian English spelling, "which is the spelling they consistently used from the 1970s to 2025." They warned that if governments start to use other systems for spelling, "this could lead to confusion about which spelling is Canadian."
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> Canadian English is a source of immense pride for the nation's pedants. But the country's distinct and somewhat arbitrary spelling reflects the legacy of how Canada was colonized. "Canadian English evolved through Loyalist settlement after the American Revolutionary War, subsequent waves of English, Scottish, Welsh and Irish immigration, and from European and global contexts," the letter says, with the current accepted spellings of words reflecting "global influences and cultures from around the world represented in our population, as well as containing words and phrases from Indigenous languages." The linguists pointed out that Canada's distinct style of spelling was widespread in media and government documents, with this deliberate decision reflecting a desire to preserve a vital element of the country's "national history, identity and pride."
[1] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/dec/16/mark-carney-british-spellings-canada
[2] https://editors.ca/wp-content/uploads/2025/12/Editors-Canada-letter-to-PM-re-Canadian-English-spelling-FINAL-signed.pdf
British English and [North] American English (Score:2)
Both are inconsistent and irritating, and by preserving spellings through linguistic shifts, they make it essentially impossible to generalize a phonetic system. Add to that the Latin alphabet, even with various digraphs, is insufficient to cover English's phonemes.
And at once instance we'll spell something with a letter we no longer pronounce, out of tradition. And another we'll swap HW in the beginning of all Old English words and start pronouncing them like "white" or "whey". Absolutely ridiculous langua
Re: (Score:2)
If we changed spellings so that they followed how words are pronounced:
* We would have words spelled differently in different countries and also different parts of the same country.
* Over time spelling would change, this would make it hard to read old texts. By old I mean 100 or 200 years; even older would be worse.
* Dictionary compilers would have a harder task than they do today.
* Mechanical (ie computer) analysis of texts would be harder, more errors.
If anything we should use a single world wide Engl
Re: British English and [North] American English (Score:2)
ChatGPT says:
- William Clark's Lewis and Clark diaries show that significant spelling variation can exist even as recently as the early 1800s.
- Despite this, the journals remain readable to modern readers with little effort.
- This suggests that standardized spelling is helpful but not essential for comprehension.
- The costs of spelling change over time are often overstated.
Re: (Score:2)
Memorising a bunch of spelling in order to read some 18th and 19th century documents that are otherwise modern English seems inconvenient, but not as inconvenient as teaching millions of children and English as a second language students a bunch of spelling variations that should otherwise be obsolete.
None of us can read Old English without significant training. And even Middle English (~400-500 years) is troublesome for a layperson without an annotated student book for the text you want to tackle.
I don't a
Re:British English and [North] American English (Score:4, Informative)
Your comment subject seems to imply a homogeneity in North American English which is non-existent. For example, for Canadians a cheque is a financial instrument; a check is an inspection or process of confirmation. Nite and lite are merely misspellings of night and light . Also, the last letter of the alphabet is and always will be zed and not zee .
Colour , flavour , and valour are usually spelled with the 'u' here in Elbows Up land, whereas in the US I'm pretty sure the 'u' almost never appears in those words.
And of course, in America the word meter may refer to either a unit of measure or an instrument for measuring. Here in Canuckistan, the unit of measure is the metre .
Re: (Score:2)
Even in the US the only homogeneity is if your education background uses Websters as its standard reference, which I suspect is above 99% of US schools.
The dictionary situation in Canada has historically been less one-sided. Depending on province is the most common dictionary, with Gage being the only truly Canadian dictionary I ever saw growing up. But I suspect OUP Canada is the dominate one now (I haven't been over there in decades).
Years ago, at least in the northern US, metre and meter were both common
Re: (Score:3)
The UK has multiple spellings too. At school they mostly teach the -ise spelling, but I prefer the Oxford -ize spelling. Either is acceptable, although a lot of spell checkers don't support Oxford.
Wait until... (Score:2)
he starts using the metric system. Then all hell is gonna break loose!!!!!,
Re: (Score:2)
> he starts using the metric system. Then all hell is gonna break loose!!!!!,
Too late. That was already a thing in 1970.
Re: (Score:2)
Its a work in progress:
Hockey Puck, Black, 6oz
[1]https://www.canadiantire.ca/en... [canadiantire.ca]
[1] https://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/hockey-puck-black-6-oz-0830032p.html
6 oz? Re:Wait until... (Score:1)
Is that troy ounce, avoirdupois ounce, or hockey-puck ounce?
The latter is defined as 1/6th the weight of a standard NHL hockey puck, exactly.
Kings English (Score:2)
You must recogniSe and speak the Kingz English. Got It.
Re: (Score:2)
> You must recogniSe and speak the Kingz English. Got It.
The king is still head of state, so I'm okay with that.
I love living in Canada (Score:4)
When this is what passes for a scandal, things are OK.
Re: (Score:2)
Things are OK. Eh.
Re: I love living in Canada (Score:2)
I prefer American drama, yes I have TDS.
Re: (Score:2)
If this is what passes for news for nerds or stuff that matters than things are not OK.
Re: (Score:2)
> When this is what passes for a scandal, things are OK.
Only things are not OK in Canada. Tariffs [1]hurting the economy [www.cbc.ca] and causing [2]prices on necessities to go up [www.cbc.ca]. Out of control [3]immigration [www.cbc.ca] causing [4]healthcare wait lists to double [www.cbc.ca] and [5]rents [www.cbc.ca] in major cities are not affordable to family on median income.
[1] https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/sudbury/northern-ontario-steel-mill-issues-layoff-notices-to-1-000-workers-9.6998768
[2] https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/grocery-prices-food-cost-9.6956462
[3] https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/new-immigration-levels-plan-1.7361972
[4] https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/wait-time-specialist-quebec-1.7279553
[5] https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/rentals-august-1.6963839
Re: (Score:1)
As far as tariffs go, Trump telling the rest of the world they should learn to live without America may be the best thing for the rest of the world, long-term. Sure, there is short- and medium-term pain, but imagine it's 2060 and the rest of the world has weaned itself from any dependence on America. Imagine a Trump-like President trying to tell the rest of the world what to do. Imagine the rest of the world shugging its collective shoulders.
Obligatory spelling humo(u)r (Score:3, Funny)
[1]Linguistic humor, English spelling reform [upenn.edu]
Source: An old chestnut. In its globalized incarnation below, via Steven Gearhart.
> English in the Future
> Directors at Daimler Benz and Chrysler have announced an agreement to adopt English as the preferred language for communications, rather than German, which was another possibility.
> As part of the negotiations, directors at Chrysler conceded that English spelling has some room for improvement and have accepted a five-year phase-in plan. In the first year, "s" will be used instead of the soft "c". Also, the hard "c" will be replased with "k". Not only will this klear up konfusion, but komputers have one less letter.
> There will be growing kompany enthusiasm in the sekond year when the troublesome "ph" will be replased by "f". This will make words like "fotograf" 20 persent shorter.
> In the third year, DaimlerKhrysler akseptanse of the new spelling kan be expekted to reash the stage where more komplikated shanges are possible.
> DaimlerKhrysler will enkourage the removal of double letters, whish have always ben a deterent to akurate speling. Also, al wil agre that the horible mes of silent "e"'s in the languag is disgrasful, and they would go.
> By the fourth year, peopl wil be reseptiv to steps sush as replasing "th" with "z" and "w" by "v".
> During ze fifz year, ze unesesary "o" kan be droped from vords kontaining "o", and similar shanges vud of kors be aplid to ozer kombinations of leters.
> After zis fifz yer, ve vil hav a reli sensibl riten styl. Zer vil be no mor trubls or difikultis, and employes vil find it ezi to kommunikat viz eash ozer.
> Ov kors al supliers vil be expekted to us zis for all busines komunikation via DaimlerKhrysler.
> Ze drem vil finali kum tru.
[1] https://www.ling.upenn.edu/~beatrice/humor/spelling-reform.html
Silly scandals (Score:3)
Oh, I long for the day when the US president had scandals about things like pronunciation, spelling, or clothing.
Can we please go back to arguing about the lack of of a flag pin rather than war crimes?
They're right. (Score:2)
I'm British myself but if you reside in a foreign country, you play by the host's rules. Especially in official situations. That's it.
\o/ (Score:1)
Good call - object to people using the UK spelling of English words. You know that English comes from England right? Any guesses where that is? One point if you said "The UK."
Huh? (Score:2)
One thing I can say for the British is that they pronounce words exactly the way they spell them. (See aluminium/aluminum). So, while my Canadian coworkers pronunciation of "schedule" bothered me as an American, I cannot call it incorrect! Obviously, the Canadians still consider themselves to be British... er, with the exception of a bunch of francophile jerks in Quebec.
Re: (Score:2)
"Which spelling is Canadian?" Both, my friend, both!
Re: Huh? (Score:2)
Its just American spelling with a lot of A's added.
Re: (Score:3)
> One thing I can say for the British is that they pronounce words exactly the way they spell them.
You forgot this little thing called The Great Vowel Change.
It really fucked up the pronunciation.
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"Lieutenant" (and numerous other words) wants to have a word with you :)
Re: (Score:2)
That is part of the English language, used extensively in England, and not pronounced the way its spelled.
Literally just picking a few place names from where I used to live in the UK, and you get:
Happisburgh - dates back a thousand years.
Wymondham - dates back approximately 1,500 years, and originates from an Anglo-Saxon name.
Costessey - originates from around 600AD, and again originates from an Anglo-Saxon name.
Re: Huh? (Score:2)
Even the British agree that the word "leftenant" doesn't make any fucking sense.
Re: (Score:2)
That may be so, but you have to balance that against their insistence that the word "mathematics" is plural simply because it ends in an S.
Re: Huh? (Score:3)
Can I borrow some worchestershire sauce?
Re: (Score:2)
Whatever you do, don't Google what that stuff is. You don't want to know.
Re: (Score:2)
Once you've found out about fish sauce, not much is scary.
Re: Huh? (Score:2)
Francophile jerks? An other American jerk who thinks the planet speaks American English? Yo bro ?
Re: (Score:2)
> Obviously, the Canadians still consider themselves to be British...
Er, no. Canadians do not see themselves as british. They see themselves as canadians. So you've worked with a handfull of canadians and you think you know everything about us and Canada. Typical american arrogance.
> er, with the exception of a bunch of francophile jerks in Quebec.
So, trying to preserve and protect one's culture and language from assimilation is being a jerk now ? Take a little trip down to Louisiana and tell the cajuns there that they are jerks. See how that goes.
Moron.
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Take a little trip down to Louisiana and tell the cajuns there that they are jerks. See how that goes.
Either that, or spend some time in the Southwest, and meet some of the hispanics who want their children to have American citizenship but don't want them to learn English.
Re: (Score:2)
Please excuse my laughter, my daughter. I really ought to toughen up.
Re: Huh? (Score:2)
Except for Center/Centre. I have never heard the latter pronounced as it's written.
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As a UK expat, I confused my American co-workers with my flexible pronunciation of "schedule".
To me, a timetable is schedule with a soft C.
As a manager when I'm assigning hours to someone to work, that's schedule with a hard C
I don't know why its that way, but it seems wrong to do those the other way around,