Reddit Launches High Court Challenge To Australia's Under-16s Social Media Ban (theguardian.com)
- Reference: 0180366629
- News link: https://yro.slashdot.org/story/25/12/12/041226/reddit-launches-high-court-challenge-to-australias-under-16s-social-media-ban
- Source link: https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2025/dec/12/reddit-high-court-challenge-social-media-ban-australia-under-16s
> Reddit has [1]filed a challenge against Australia's under-16s social media ban in the high court, lodging its case two days after implementing age restrictions on its website. The company said in [2]a Reddit post on Friday that while it agreed with protecting people under 16, the law "has the unfortunate effect of forcing intrusive and potentially insecure verification processes on adults as well as minors, isolating teens from the ability to engage in age-appropriate community experiences."
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> Reddit said there was an "illogical patchwork" of platforms included in the ban. "As the Australian Human Rights Commission put it, 'There are less restrictive alternatives available that could achieve the aim of protecting children and young people from online harms, but without having such a significant negative impact on other human rights.'" Reddit argued it was a forum primarily for adults without the traditional social media features the government has "taken issue with."
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> Reddit was challenging the law on the grounds it infringed on the implied freedom of political communication. It was also seeking to challenge whether Reddit could be considered an age-restricted social media platform under the legislation. It said it was not seeking to challenge the law to avoid compliance, and had implemented age-assurance measures since Wednesday. The company said the vast majority of Redditors were adults, and advertising wasn't targeted to children under 18. The Apple app store age rating for Reddit is 17+. "Despite the best intentions, this law is missing the mark on actually protecting young people online," Reddit said. "So, while we will comply with this law, we have a responsibility to share our perspective and see that it is reviewed by the courts."
[1] https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2025/dec/12/reddit-high-court-challenge-social-media-ban-australia-under-16s
[2] https://www.reddit.com/r/RedditSafety/comments/1pkbpw1/a_more_effective_approach_to_protecting_youth/
But we know Reddit doesn't care (Score:5, Insightful)
They are not in the business of protecting minors or encouraging thoughtful conversation. They are in the business of making money and maximizing clicks and views. They know that conflict increases clicks and posts so it should not be surprising to know they want that to happen. They can dress it up in all the corporate nice-speak they want.
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I've never looked but does Reddit actually push feeds on you? ie: Does it track your account behaviour and then make suggestions?
Without the tracking and suggestions it's not using the terrible behaviour that places like Facebook use. Hell even Ebay does that. I deleted my account the same day I created it because Ebay's behaviour changed the moment I signed up.
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Reddit is a cesspool of propaganda, authoritarianism, groupthink and, now, tons of LLM bots. It lost any credibility it had a decade ago. Still, I am very against these types of laws. In the UK, they have destroyed all small sites and forums. They are not about protecting children and teens. Is social media bad for teens? It's BAD FOR ADULTS! The algorithmic ranking system is always a massive danger and social media in-general gives people a false sense of relevance.
Small fourms, boards and things like A
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I'm inclined to agree with you here. I think we're just now seeing some of the downsides of Social Media, and children do not need to be a part of it.
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The problem is "Adults". People, regardless of their age, fall into the following categories (I might be missing a bunch):
1. I saw it on the Internet and therefore it must be true
2. I saw it on the Internet and it aligns with my own beliefs so therefore it must be true
3. I saw it on the Internet and a BUNCH of people seemed to agree with it, therefore it must be true
4. I saw it on the Internet but it seems like such a radical idea that I'm very suspicious about it and therefore I'll do my own due
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So here's the thing: I think most websites can tell whether their content is "safe" or not, even given the varied desires of parents. And it'd take all of thirty seconds for the W3C to come up with a standardized way of indicating whether a page is intended to be adult or not. And it'd take all of an hour for Google to add something to Blink to respect a preference set somewhere, password protected of course, as to whether to show adult pages or not.
Most of the arguments would be "But can we guarantee that
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> Remember that a world wide standard for what constitutes adult material is going to be an issue anyway, to obey Australia's law as well as those of various US states a website will have to go for the most all encompassing definition to cover both.
HTML tags can have comma or space separated values.
The above is a tag that Google SafeSearch already respects. But more granular would be easy by just adding additional like 18up or 13up for ages, tags for violence, MPAA ratings, etc. There's no reason to have a single standard when you can just tag individual aspects and the user agent can look at it in aggregate to decide whether it complies.
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They might just want adults to speak more freely because it's good for revenue - which won't happen if they don't feel they have legally protected anonymity. That doesn't mean they are necessarily after just increasing their user count of minors. I'm not entirely on their side but I think it's worth letting them speak and supporting the good in what they say.
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I've heard people say, "well kids can get accounts elsewhere and view porn." Look, you have to lead by example. If you're a parent and don't want your kids watching porn, you get a router that does some blocking. It won't get all of it, but you don't allow yourself a bypass either. Explain to you kids, "I know porn is tempting. I think it's wrong and I know it's wrong and try not to watch it." Yes they can still watch it if they want to, but you've let your values be known and they will either share them or
Aussie teens already defeating the block (Score:3)
[1]https://archive.is/tRHTj [archive.is]
Teenagers in Australia are cheating the government’s world-first [2]social media ban [archive.is] and openly mocking the Prime Minister on banned platforms.
Young people told The Telegraph how they were getting past the new age-verification technology by frowning at the camera. Others told [3] Anthony Albanese [archive.is] to “f--- off” after accessing sites such as Instagram and Snapchat, which the new law has banned for those under the age of 16.
The group of self-styled [4]“social media survivors” [archive.is] had skirted the ban within minutes of it being introduced on Wednesday, raising concerns that the policy is not fit for purpose.
[1] https://archive.is/tRHTj
[2] https://archive.is/o/tRHTj/https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/11/28/australia-passes-social-media-ban-on-children-under-16/
[3] https://archive.is/o/tRHTj/https://www.telegraph.co.uk/anthony-albanese/
[4] https://archive.is/o/tRHTj/https://www.telegraph.co.uk/social-media/
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> frowning at the camera
Well this is pretty sad. Not because the teens get past it, but because whatever AI trained on the data decides that adults are generally unhappy.
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Reddit is a microcosm. You might as well ban the Internet. Or come up with a real plan that allows nuance, like partial access. We're at the point where AI and LLMs aren't great but they can do basic classifying at a level that should be sufficient to just gate the material that should be gated.
Reminder that Lemmy exists (Score:2)
Try banning open source software that anyone can spin up an instance.
Reddit is not social media (Score:3)
Reddit is not social media; it's a message board. Nothing so similar to 1980s UseNet can be considered social media, which debuted in the mid-2000s with MySpace (though the term "social media" wasn't even coined until the launch of the second such example, which was Facebook).
The difference between Reddit and social media? The latter puts profile and pictures at the core, whereas they are incidental in the former -- both used only to support the primary purpose which is text-based discussion.
Reddit is totally social media (Score:1)
Reddit is totally social media. Also, a message board is social media. Reddit has avatars and you can self post. The site is mostly videos and pictures and memes. And endlessly punny comments. I would relate it less to usenet and more like a email that has been forwarded way too many times.
Age verification is a backdoor to gov't tracking (Score:5, Insightful)
I agree that social media is detrimental to mental health and like any other "vice" adolescents should not have unsupervised access to it. However, lets not pretend that age verification laws have anything to do with reducing harms to kids. Australia wants to implement age verification laws as part of de-anonymizing adults. This is part of global initiative to undermine freedom of speech in the West. UK is already jailing [1]thousands of people [nypost.com] and clearly Australia wants in on that.
[1] https://nypost.com/2025/08/19/world-news/uk-free-speech-struggle-30-arrests-a-day-censorship/
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Yes. And when the "think of the children" lie has run its course, they will just continue with one of the other horsemen: [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
These are malicious people, plain and simple. They want everybody monitored and dislike anybody having freedoms. And they will stop short of nothing to get there.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Horsemen_of_the_Infocalypse
Forget government tracking (Score:2)
Completely removing internet anonymity. There was just a story of some dumb racist commenting on a black woman's Facebook and since Facebook has real names she tracked them down and drove to his place of work.
Now it's all well and good for some racist asshole, although that's a really dumb thing to do this since you never know if he has a gun, but increasingly internet anonymity is the only thing we've got to push back
When that piece of shit Charlie Kirk died multiple people lost their jobs for doing
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You are deeply out of touch with observable reality if your conclusion that after furry trans activist Tyler James Robinson politically motivated assassination of "Lets talk" Charlie Kirk it is right that extremely violent. Also, in the aftermath of Kirk death, conservatives burned down zero downtowns, zero police stations, ect. unlike BLM or Antifa.
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> until we kick all crazy people such as yourself out of our party like they did in Canada
That included Prime Minister of Canada, so it was no small task. Now they are 1 seat away from Liberal majority.
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> It's like nobody around here remembers the McCarthy era.
I think bad actors on both sides fully embraced McCarthyism. For example, on the right Ben Shapiro is all-in on both affirmative action and cancelling people that criticize Israel. That is, after building his entire career around "Facts don't care about your feelings". However, at least on the right, these censorious assholes are losing power, rapidly. Unfortunately, what coming to replace them are even worse - Nick Fuentes, etc. I am deeply concerned that blowback going to be much worse than we could imagi
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Age verification should be handled with an anonymized digital token. One party verifies the age, the other uses the token to create the account. Both can't be owned by the same company. Neither is government. Unless that can be solved cryptographically, because a nationalized method would be simpler and more cost effective if there was already some sort of national digital ID. Regardless, I think age verification can be done relatively anonymously.
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> I think age verification can be done relatively anonymously.
It can be, but that is not the goal, so it isn't being done this way anywhere.