EU Urged to Soften 2035 Ban on Internal Combustion Engine Cars (reuters.com)
- Reference: 0180326267
- News link: https://tech.slashdot.org/story/25/12/08/0022229/eu-urged-to-soften-2035-ban-on-internal-combustion-engine-cars
- Source link: https://www.reuters.com/business/retail-consumer/six-countries-push-eu-allow-hybrid-cars-other-technologies-beyond-2035-2025-12-05/
> The countries have asked the EU Commission to allow the sale of hybrid cars or vehicles powered by other, existing or future, technologies "that could contribute to the goal of reducing emissions" beyond 2035, a joint letter seen by Reuters showed on Friday. The letter was signed by the prime ministers of Bulgaria, the Czech Republic, Hungary, Italy, Poland and Slovakia. They also asked for low-carbon and renewable fuels to be included in the plan to reduce the carbon emissions from transportation...
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> Since they adopted a regulation that all new vehicles from 2035 should have zero emissions in March 2023, EU countries are [2]now having second thoughts . Back then, the outlook for battery electric vehicles was positive, but carmakers' efforts have later collided with the reality of lower-than-expected demand and fierce competition from China.
Car and Drive reports that Chancellor Friedrich Merz of Germany also " [3]wants to allow exceptions for plug-in hybrids, extended-range EVs, and 'highly efficient' combustion vehicles beyond the current 2035 deadline." They cite a [4]report in Automotive News .
> The European Commission hasn't made any official changes yet, but mounting pressure suggests that a revised plan could be coming soon.... Apostolos Tzitzikostas, the European Commissioner for Sustainable Transport and Tourism, was cited by the German paper [5]Handelsblatt as saying that the EU "will take all technological advances into account when reassessing fleet emission limits, including combustion engines running on e-fuels and biofuels." And these renewable products will apparently be key pieces of the puzzle. BMW uses a vegetable-oil-derived fuel called HVO 100 in its diesel products throughout Europe. The plant-oil-based fuel reportedly reduces tailpipe emissions by 90 percent compared with traditional diesel. For its part, Porsche has been working on producing synthetic fuel at a plant in Chile since 2022.
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> The European Commission is set to meet on December 10. At that time, the body is expected to assemble a package of proposals to help out the struggling European automotive industry, though the actual announcement may be pushed to a later date.
Thanks to long-time Slashdot reader [6]sinij for sharing the article.
[1] https://www.reuters.com/business/retail-consumer/six-countries-push-eu-allow-hybrid-cars-other-technologies-beyond-2035-2025-12-05/
[2] https://www.reuters.com/sustainability/boards-policy-regulation/european-carmakers-hope-reprieve-2035-combustion-engine-ban-2025-11-26/
[3] https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a69622270/european-union-may-not-ban-combustion-cars/
[4] https://www.autonews.com/manufacturing/automakers/ane-germany-emissions-merz-1128/
[5] https://www.handelsblatt.com/politik/international/verbrenner-aus-wir-diktieren-der-industrie-nicht-was-sie-tun-soll/100175339.html
[6] https://www.slashdot.org/~sinij
People get nasty at Trump (bad guy) for this (Score:1)
let's see if these same people are consistent and get nasty with Europe (the good guys) about this also.
Re: (Score:3)
Little hint for why people get "nasty" about trump: his' motivations are clear (self dealing) and even if what he's purporting to do is something one agrees with in principal he always goes about it in an incorrect and damaging way. How is it that you haven't picked up on this? It's really, really obvious.
HVO 100 (Score:1)
Why isnâ(TM)t that ish everywhere if itâ(TM)s so good?
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It's just some smoke and mirrors to stick to the status quo. Just like Sustainable Aviation Fuel and burning forests in old coal power plant.
Unfortunately to maintain the smoke and mirrors they are destroying the planet multiple times faster than just sticking to fossil fuel. Paris targets are holy, meeting them is far more important than the environment.
Buy Chinese EVs? (Score:2)
If you primarily care about zero emissions, buy inexpensive Chinese EVs. Then, in parallel, figure out how to create a competitive domestic offering.
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Zero emissions or Human Rights. You have to pick one, in your scenario. Where do you fall?
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Unrelated, irrelevant question. EU already buys plenty of Chinese products/parts/materials. This issue is not about stopping all trade with China.
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That can certainly change . . .
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Unfortunately, picking Human Rights is not an option anywhere. [1]Forced and Child Labor Abuses Found in 75% of Lithium Battery Supply Chains [wardsauto.com].
[1] https://www.wardsauto.com/news/forced-and-child-labor-abuses-found-in-75-of-lithium-battery-supply-chains/778207/
Re: (Score:2)
Having read the article, it seems like picking human rights certainly is an option! Especially given how those products of abuses are under heavy scrutiny and risk near-future bans.
Infeasible due to mineral shortage (Score:1)
2035 goal was infeasible for a number of reasons, but the key one is lack of key raw minerals. That is, even if consumer preferences and per unit costs were not an issue, you could not make enough batteries using current technology out of currently existing materials. Exponential growth in material availability just did not materialize.
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Price for Lithium has been dropping the last few years, manganese stable.
Buy it and it will come.
Re: (Score:2)
Can he tariff California? (answer: no)
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Not directly, but he certainly can try to cause more polluition there by suppressing California ability regulate their own emissions. And he certainly can try to tank the California economy through travel bans, tariffs, terror raids, mass arrests, vote suppression, among other fascist tactics. My only consolation is that hopefully the next Democrat in office metes out appropriate retribution on the Reich wingers.
Re: Trump will solve this problem (Score:2)
Time for the US to nationalise all things vehicle. Registration and taxes. Emissions and smog checks. Safety inspections. Dealership laws and regulations. Driver licensing (including for trucks, busses etc). Road rules. The lot.
Saturated market (Score:2)
Whoever wanted and could afford an EV, already got an EV. The rest of us prefer convenience and not having to worry about charging yet another device, even if at the cost to the environment. Sorry to break it to you, but most of the working class people don't give a sh... about the environment. We just want to reliably and comfortably get from A to B, without having to worry about yet another thing in life. Technology should make life easier, not more convoluted. Most of us are not martyrs willing to sacrif
Re: (Score:2)
Nah, the deals on used EVs are great right now; I think more people are going to start buying them up. They have low maintenance and running costs, and for around town, they're great.
There are so many goddamn F-150s on the road belonging to people that never tow a single thing or load the bed up. They're commuter cars for accountants with masculinity issues. Don't tell me that we shouldn't get these dipshits into normal cars or EVs both for the sake of the environment and road safety.
Renewable fuels? (Score:2)
A few factories to transform used cooking oil and gassify waste are just fucking around in the margins. To go beyond that you are going to be slashing the few remaining forests and even then it won't scale to net zero, not enough planet for it.
Anything is better than biofuel, including fossil fuel.
Also China isn't going to slow down with EV and hydrogen ... if the EU tries to save aging VW investments, they are not only going to fail, they are going to fail harder. Or is the EU going to go full protectionis
Re:Renewable fuels? (Score:4, Interesting)
Biofuels aren't worse than fossil fuels but they surprisingly aren't much better. You can make renewable e-fuels with just renewable power and recaptured CO2, but they take an obscene amount of energy and then the ICE turns most of what all that energy produced into waste heat.
Hydrogen is a fossil fuel industry distraction, it offers the best selection of the worst downsides: An expensive and currently mostly fossil-sourced fuel you need to get at a station like gas/diesel, relatively long refuel times and short range in a vehicle with a higher up-front cost and weight like an EV, and a fuel that is only available at a small handful of stations, needs to be stored at immense pressures, escapes through solids and embrittles steel on the way out, and burns with an invisible flame like only hydrogen can offer.
We won't be able to get rid of liquid hydrocarbon fuels completely any time soon but we can make their uses a small enough fraction of what they are today that they're no longer a major source of fossil CO2 emissions and these oddball "fucking around in the margins" solutions can fulfill a decent fraction of the demand.
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Batteries don't work everywhere, biofuel is unsustainable and can't scale, e-fuel is a very inefficient hydrogen storage method, direct air capture and sequestration is expensive, primary metal air batteries and the recycling methods for them are way less developed than hydrogen.
Where batteries and (fast) charging works, sure use it ... where it doesn't all other net zero options suck as hard or harder than liquid hydrogen.
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Some car manufacturers want to wring more out of their investments in hybrid drivetrains. They are also hoping to delay long enough to catch up to the Chinese on battery tech.
Toyota is a great example. Their solid state battery tech is always a few years away from revolutionising the industry. They tried and abandoned hydrogen.
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Catch up to the Chinese on battery tech? They don't have any special battery tech. There's nothing special about Chinese EVs components, they're basically the same stuff everyone else is making their EVs out of.
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> Who cares what China does? We have an aging grid and power generation thats being taken up by AI processing. Electricity prices are going up while gasoline keeps dropping. At some point it will absolutely be cheaper to own a gas vehicle. And California is about to charge EVs taxes by the mile so that advantage will be gone.
Why would it ever be cheaper to own a gas car? As the demand drops for oil due to increasing electrification the oil companies will start shutting down wells, expensive ones first, so that supply doesn't outstrip demand. They aren't going to *give it away*: they're going to keep stiffing you for as much you will bear for as long as you will bear it. But at some point the cost to run the infrastructure for the ever-decreasing pool of vehicles that use it will start to become the limiting factor. When you're
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> if the EU tries to save aging VW investments, they are not only going to fail, they are going to fail harder. Or is the EU going to go full protectionist AND stick to ICEs at the same time?
Don't worry too much for now, the news isn't about the EU making a decision, it is about a letter sent trying to influence the Commission. The EC will propose no change unless it's clear there is a majority to vote it at a Council meeting. With 6 countries representing 28.8% of the population, the proponents are far from the required majority of 14 votes representing 55% of the people. Obviously they know they are minority in the room and that's the reason why they started a debate this way. The moment is d