CDC Changes Webpage To Say Vaccines May Cause Autism, Revising Prior Language (msn.com)
- Reference: 0180156491
- News link: https://science.slashdot.org/story/25/11/20/1912215/cdc-changes-webpage-to-say-vaccines-may-cause-autism-revising-prior-language
- Source link: https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/diseases-and-conditions/cdc-changes-webpage-to-say-vaccines-may-cause-autism-revising-prior-language/ar-AA1QMBkF
> The contents of the webpage came up during Health Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. Senate confirmation process. Sen. Bill Cassidy (R., La.) in February said Kennedy had assured him that, if he was confirmed, the CDC would "not remove statements on their website pointing out that vaccines do not cause autism."
>
> The revised webpage says: "The claim 'vaccines do not cause autism' is not an evidence-based claim because studies have not ruled out the possibility that infant vaccines cause autism. Studies supporting a link have been ignored by health authorities." The new text posted Wednesday also notes that the Department of Health and Human Services has launched "a comprehensive assessment" to probe the causes of autism.
[1] https://www.cdc.gov/vaccine-safety/about/autism.html
[2] https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/diseases-and-conditions/cdc-changes-webpage-to-say-vaccines-may-cause-autism-revising-prior-language/ar-AA1QMBkF
Intergity (Score:3)
Nobody except the morons who voted for the orange one trust US institutions anyway. Health recommendations will be made at state level (I am in one of the dumb states) whenever possible. Foreign medical professionals will ignore the CDC.
We are a banana republic.
Re: (Score:2, Troll)
First of all, trust in institutions is falling everywhere across the western world, not just in the US, and that drop in trust is bipartisan in the US. Secondly, there are [1]real reasons [san.com] for a general decline in institutional trust. In medicine, but also in economics, with the 2008 financial crisis that was caused by a failure of the institutions that are supposed to regulate such things. The rush to label anyone who questioned the origin of the COVID-19 virus as racist, only to have most authorities event
[1] https://san.com/cc/peanut-allergies-have-long-plagued-kids-inside-the-scientific-u-turn-thats-shaken-trust-in-pediatrics/
Re: (Score:2)
> but also in economics, with the 2008 financial crisis that was caused by a failure of the institutions that are supposed to regulate such things.
Dunno, the institutions who were supposed to regulate such things did a pretty good job here, as they did in most places that weren't the US or a specific bit of shadiness between the UK and Iceland.
Re: (Score:2)
My opinion as a pragmatist is that most western institutions do a passably good job most of the time, but are imperfect and need to be constantly scrutinized to make sure they're serving the interests of the taxpayers. But what I'm talking about here is trust. There are many things that institutions could do to communicate in a way that doesn't do so much harm to their trustworthiness. I think that's an area where people are still learning how to do it "the right way." We're not there yet.
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Modding me down doesn't make me wrong, mods.
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If you need health advice, check some European country's public health agencies. The UK's NHS has a decent website with information on a lot of medical conditions.
Also... breathing. (Score:5, Insightful)
> The revised webpage says: "The claim 'vaccines do not cause autism' is not an evidence-based claim because studies have not ruled out the possibility that infant vaccines cause autism. Studies supporting a link have been ignored by health authorities."
Breathing can also cause Autism -- and definitely death. Fact: All people with Autism and/or who have died are/were habitual breathers. Claims to the contrary are not evidence based because studies have not ruled out the possibility that breathing can cause Autism and definitely death. ...
In related news: The inmates are running the asylum.
Re: (Score:3)
The history of the claim that vaccines cause autism is [1]extremely well documented [wikipedia.org] - as a deliberate fraud.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Wakefield
Re: (Score:2)
> The history of the claim that vaccines cause autism is [1]extremely well documented [wikipedia.org] - as a deliberate fraud.
Well aware, but thanks. More people should learn, and believe, this.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Wakefield
To what degree is the statement wrong? (Score:5, Insightful)
> The claim 'vaccines do not cause autism' is not an evidence-based claim because studies have not ruled out the possibility that infant vaccines cause autism.
That statement is fine, we don't know what causes autism, and frankly defining it is almost a joke, since it is a voluntary diagnosis for the most part. However, you could make the same style statement about almost anything, and it wouldn't be entirely wrong.
> The claim 'Oreos do not summon dragons' is not an evidence-based claim because studies have not ruled out the possibility that Oreos can't summon dragons.
It's an idiotic statement, but it's not entirely wrong. Not being wrong, is the not same as being right, and that's the important factor. People will read the autism statement and think the government is finally endorsing the “reality” that vaccine cause autism when they're not. Years ago, during COVID-19, I made a joke that I didn't want to get the COVID-19 vaccine because I didn't want double autism. I'm formally diagnosed with Asperger syndrome, and everyone knew I was joking. My wife, who's a nurse, told one of her clients, who said (paraphrased): “Oh, that's a good point!”, and that woman was serious.
Where the statement becomes very problematic is the next part:
> Studies supporting a link have been ignored by health authorities.
What studies? Link the studies, the complete studies because making stupid statements is one thing, but making a falsifiable statement is a violation of public trust. I'm not suggesting that we carefully select some studies, I'm suggesting to post all of them, provide the evidence, if you don't have any, then remove the tail end of the quote. Should the government post careless statements, no, but if you're going to use reverse logic, then make sure you don't provide a falsifiable statement that can be checked.
Re: (Score:2)
Yes to have these muppets edit the CDC's webpage to cite vague "health authorities" other than... the CDC... and then cite no studies is inherently infuriating.
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The statement is not fine. It doesn't need to be said. Vaccines also don't not cause shark attacks. Does that need to go on the CDC site as well?
Re: (Score:2)
Yes, exactly, but your statement is “fine”, it's not false, and it's pointless to make, but it's not a lie. Should that be on the CDC website, no, not at all, but again, it's not a lie so it falls back to “fine”. Keep in mind, “fine” does not mean a great reference point of truth.
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> The statement is not fine. It doesn't need to be said. Vaccines also don't not cause shark attacks. Does that need to go on the CDC site as well?
I call bullshit. You try giving a vaccination to a shark. I promise you, it will cause an attack.
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I don't think autism is caused by anything. It's not like there is a definitive test that reads positive or negative. It's a collection of symptoms and behaviors. I'd wager that many scientists and inventors were autistic long before vaccines were discovered.
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100%, which is why the statement doesn't really mean anything, until you hit that stupid second part.
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It's thought to be 80% hereditary. It's also thought there are [1]from 2 to 4 distinct types [nbcnews.com] of autism, like how ADHD has 2 types.
Lots of scientists and inventors throughout history had autistic traits and would probably meet the diagnostic criteria today. The book Neurotribes by Steve Silberman goes into great depth about the history. Good read.
[1] https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/autism-spectrum-disorder-genetic-analysis-multiple-forms-age-diagnosis-rcna234741
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> That statement is fine, we don't know what causes autism, and frankly defining it is almost a joke, since it is a voluntary diagnosis for the most part. However, you could make the same style statement about almost anything, and it wouldn't be entirely wrong.
Yes but we DO know that vaccines does not cause autism. Not only have this been studied to death, the brain changes that cause autism happens before you are born so unless you want to present the idea of the existence of time machines then nothing you do after birth can be the cause.
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We don't know that vaccines don't cause autism, we heavily suspect they don't. You can't prove a negative, in science, you can only show that we have never been able to confirm they can. Let's be clear, we have an insane amount of research and evidence to defend the claim vaccines don't cause autism, but we can't conclusively and absolutely prove they don't. We don't even know what “autism” really is as a stable definition, by evidence it's swung, from someone completely functionally absolute
We know what causes autism (Score:3)
At least what we most commonly refer to as autism. It's genetic.
There are also some factors in the womb that can cause symptoms we associate with autism specifically things like mild fetal alcohol syndrome. That isn't technically autism though and a actual doctor would know the difference.
The beauty of autism from a political standpoint is that the term is used so broadly in the public that you can create a lot of fear and confusion that is highly useful politically. And you can get parents to vote
Re: (Score:2)
I don't think, outside a minimal subset of world-class specialists, could any doctor meaningfully define or recognize autism as a core or related core condition. Why do I say that?
I have a condition generally referred to as Chronic Neuropathic Pain Disorder, or “Chronic Pain”. I have 15 doctors / specialists, ranging from my GP (family doctor), to a world recognized expert in pain diagnosis and treatment (Dr James). If we exclude Dr James, and you talk to the other 14 doctors / specialists
This should kill their credibility ... (Score:4, Insightful)
... but it won't: The True Believers will believe it is true, and for everyone else, the current administration's credibility on health-related matters died months ago.
I know Trump voters will avoid this thread (Score:5, Insightful)
Unless of course they've got some mod points to blow, but seriously fuck you guys.
Nobody here is so stupid that they don't know this is both wrong and horrific and doesn't understand exactly why that's the case.
And I know there are a bunch of trump voters here on slashdot
For the people who weren't just fooled I wonder what you got out of it?
I know a lot of people are enjoying watching random people with brown skin pulled off the streets and sent to African nations they've never been to.
Funny thing is every one of them thinks they're Christian.
There is a belief among the evangelicals that so long as you believe in Christ you are saved and you can basically do anything you want. Faith and not works is what gets you into heaven.
But you know what, do you really have faith if you voted for trump?
I mean if your boss gives you an order you go do it because you know damn well your boss is real and so are the consequences of ignoring your boss.
Jesus gave you all kinds of orders that you ignore. Unlike your boss you don't think Jesus is real do you?
Basically the evangelicals are closeted atheists. It's just an identity they put on. Something to excuse some of their bad opinions. The Bible is a collection of disjointed texts and books and letters to various denominations so it's easy to find a reason to do just about anything you want to do.
But eventually reality is going to come calling for you. We're going to take away your social security and your Medicare. After that you'll lose your house when you mortgage it to pay for your bills. I wonder who you will blame then and I wonder which passages of the Bible you will use to do it...
Meanwhile I have the entire Republican party telling me that fucking 15-year-old girls doesn't make you a pedophile. What a fucking world we're in.
Re: (Score:2)
> COVID-19 would go away tomorrow if everyone understood the science of vaccines and got vaccinated
There is no sterilizing vaccine for COVID, so no, even if 100% of people got the jab we would still continue having waves of COVID.
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Being religious already means you;'re easily enough to fool with fairy tales. Now try not to hurl realising 85% of people adhere to one religion/cult or another.
Btw, Gervais had a point, why is there are term for not believing in a fantasy like an almighty god, but not one for not believing fairy tales or fantasy fiction or the like? I don't feel like im atheist, I feel like I'm a person with reasoning capability, knowing fantasy from reality (I'd never call myself normal in the first place :-p ).
Re: (Score:2)
> Meanwhile I have the entire Republican party telling me that fucking 15-year-old girls doesn't make you a pedophile.
Not a Republican, but technically they are correct in the most pedantic sense. Pedophilia is the attraction to prepubescent children. Hebephilia is sexual interest in early adolescence, typically between 11 and 4, while Ephebophilia is the sexual interest in mid-to-late adolescents, typically 15 to 19.
Not really no (Score:1)
Pedophilia is not just about age or physical characteristics it's about exerting power over a helpless individual.
Once you're an adult in most countries you at least have some agency. But the reason Trump targets children is because they don't have that agency and he enjoys abusing that fact.
So the difference you're talking about might matter for the purposes of a psychiatrist treating Donald Trump for his particular form of psychopathy but from a practical standpoint he is very much a pedophile.
Re: (Score:1)
So your argument is "we can bigly suck because YOU guys also bigly suck"?
MAGAs are Fake Christians (Score:2)
> We are a Christian nation
MAGAs are fake Christians, ignore most of Bible, especially all the "don't be greedy" and "don't be an asshole" scriptures. You worship Fox Jesus, not the real Jesus.
Jesus said NOTHING about LGBTQ+, yet belted the shit out of greedy money changers grifting in the temple lobby. Trump would probably be one of the belties if he were alive then. The plutocrats want you to forget about the second and focus on the first so that you allow them to continue to sin and grift. Many don't even
Citation required (Score:4, Insightful)
Make whatever claim you want. But if it's not supported by evidence then you're just flapping your gums.
The conspiracy theorist in me thinks there is a faction that wants to intentionally erode the public's trust in government services. To dismantle a government of the people, by the people, and for the people. And replace it with a very different sort of government; one that eschews pluralism, reserves individual liberty to those with power(money), and establishes a rigid hierarchy with a unitary executive at the top.
Re: (Score:2)
> The conspiracy theorist in me thinks there is a faction that wants to intentionally erode the public's trust in government services.
That's not a conspiracy - it's quite genuinely the conservative modus operandi for nearly all public services. That is precisely what they've done with the postal service, education, financial oversight, etc. And they haven't made it a secret, you can just watch the videos and read the statements made by organizations like the Heritage Foundation and others.
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So you are trying to explain away easily observable reality with bad cliche quotes?
Could you be any more disingenuous?
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You're just starting to acknowledge the possibility?
Re: (Score:2)
No, but 30 years ago people thought I was being paranoid, a crank, or just being difficult (troll, contrarian, etc)
Sigh... fine. (Score:5, Insightful)
Those of us not in the US can just pull up a chair and watch it burn down. I'm buying popcorn. They're opting out of health and education, which underpin the future of everything. The future is not theirs - they are steadfastly committed to near irrelevance in a couple of decades. I spent the last decade feeling concern for the citizens of the US, but I'm out of empathy.
"This isn't who we are!" Sorry, that rings hollow now. It is, in fact, who you are.
Re: (Score:2)
I get what you're saying, but it's easy for folks outside of the US to forget how slim Trump's margin of victory was. Recent polls show close to 60% of voters disapprove of his presidency.
It's mind boggling how low the US has sunk, but don't jump to the conclusion that this administration reflects the values of a majority of the populace.
Re: (Score:2)
> I get what you're saying, but it's easy for folks outside of the US to forget how slim Trump's margin of victory was.
Actually - The fact that anything more than a fringe minority would support such a person is the issue.
After WWII, there was a lot of ink spilt trying to examine the psyche of the German population, in order to understand what could cause a people to turn en masse in this way. The conclusions were often that there was in fact nothing special about the Germans. This could happen anywhere. But countries like the UK and the US didn't really take this to heart. There was a core belief that the rule abiding Germ
You know the disease variance breeding over here (Score:2)
Are going to make it back over the Europe right? Also eventually we're going to need to invade your countries in order to loot them and fill our coffers because that's what failing empires do and our empire is very much on the skids.
Now would be a good time for the rest of the world to stage and intervention and maybe try to stop Russia from getting Trump a third term as president.
The problem is you're ruling class is hoping that if America falls they can't get their currency in as the de facto worl
Andrew Wakefield (Score:5, Informative)
who is responsible for starting this urban legend, is a known fraudster. He has lost his medical license (in England where he lives) and his scientific publications have been withdrawn as frauds. There is no credible evidence of any kind for these claims.
Re: (Score:3)
He was punished by becoming a millionaire and porking Elle Mcpherson.
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Fraud seems to pay well.
Tylenol ? (Score:2)
What if I take Tylenol after my vaccine to soothe the pain? Is that ok?
Also maybe we should start working in earnest on learning the science behind dementia. Seems like there is a cluster in the Washington DC area.
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> What if I take Tylenol after my vaccine to soothe the pain? Is that ok?
> Also maybe we should start working in earnest on learning the science behind dementia. Seems like there is a cluster in the Washington DC area.
Only if you're not pregnant!
Time to dust of my old cupping jars (Score:1)
and brush up on my trepanation technique. I'll have a quiet word with Robert; it's about time that the old tried and tested therapies were brought back.
Re: (Score:2)
Yes, and while we're at it, let's reintroduce [1]radium-lined drinking water jars [wikipedia.org]! After all, "Water without radioactivity is like air without oxygen!"
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radium_ore_Revigator
Re: (Score:2)
> and brush up on my trepanation technique. I'll have a quiet word with Robert; it's about time that the old tried and tested therapies were brought back.
Don't forget that refresher on prefrontal lobotomy via the nostril. Oh, wait - I guess someone with the handle "SnotMelon" wouldn't miss that old gem... ;-0
Tylenol (Score:2)
Wait, I thought Tylenol caused autism. Is there Tylenol in the vaccines? What's going on? LOL
Welcome to the moronosphere (Score:2)
Republicans continue their war on science
This is the end game (Score:4, Interesting)
Trump goal here is to turn government institutions into cess pools that nobody trusts. Kennedy is a useful idiot for this purpose. The end game is to burn down the entire federal government.
Re:This is the end game (Score:4, Interesting)
You're wrong... in thinking Trump is the actual boss. In truth, Trump is basically just another "useful idiot", for the billionaires above him - some of whom serve on his cabinet.
Re: (Score:2)
The billionaires are to some extent a tool as well. Or more specifically, they choose to align. We need to look at the politics plain and simple. And to get visibility on that, you need to look at the bundled law changes. One class in particular stands out - the Israel exceptions on crimes.
It's a little like how the President can't be lawfully wrong about anything now. Trump could order an assassination of the opposition leader and it's legal as long as it's done as the President. He even gets to pard
Finally, something we both can agree on (Score:2)
You don't want to be vaccinated. I don't want you, your family, or any of your friends to ever be vaccinated. Win-win!
Until ... (Score:2)
.. the person that doesn't get vaccinated infects someone you love who can't get vaccinated for medical reasons.
Those who can't get vaccinated for medical reasons are depending on the rest of us to create "herd immunity" to protect them, because short of living a life in isolation, that's the only protection they have.
Darwin calling (Score:2)
This is a great way to cull the morons out of the population, and best of all it will be self selecting.
Next will come the dunking chairs for witch craft testing. If you drown you are innocent and have gone upstairs, if you don't drown you are put to death for being a witch.
REMOVE ALL WARNING LABELS (Score:3)
> This is a great way to cull the morons out of the population, and best of all it will be self selecting.
Yes that's basically what needs to happen at this point: [1] REMOVE ALL WARNING LABELS [youtube.com].
[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjbtPuuU5Qw
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The problem is that the people most harmed by this aren't the morons themselves, but their kids, who have no say in the matter. Sure, in an evolutionary sense, eliminating the children does curtail their influence on the gene pool (depending on how much of their idiocy is heritable), but I'd really prefer it if they took themselves out of the gene pool and let their kids learn from that example.
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First take them off the ACA, I don't want to pay for MAGA coma-care as they overdose on Ivermectin or some other brainworm-oil.
Wait - November is after September (Score:2)
Trump and RFK told us they were gonna announce the cause of autism "in September"... what's the hold-up? Is it listed in the Epstein Files?
Proving negative (Score:2)
> The claim 'vaccines do not cause autism' is not an evidence-based claim because studies have not ruled out the possibility that infant vaccines cause autism.
While I think that the claim is plausible, it does require proof which I have not seen. There is no reverse obligation to prove the negative.
Get vaccinated! (Score:2)
If you think avoiding vaccines for you and your children is in your best interest then stay the hell away from the rest of us. You'll soon have plaque colonies that will welcome you with open sores.
What a Horrible Joke (Score:3, Informative)
There have only been two studies that concluded there was a link with autism and MMR vaccines which have both been retracted after being found to be critically flawed. There have been numerous studies concluding there is no link between MMR vaccines and Autism since children that had MMR vaccines and those who did not have the same prevalence of autism. Robert F. Kennedy Jr. is a complete nut bar who is completely unqualified for any role in government much less being the secretary of health. [1]https://www.chop.edu/vaccine-e... [chop.edu]
[1] https://www.chop.edu/vaccine-education-center/vaccine-safety/vaccines-and-other-conditions/autism
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Kennedy somehow in charge of a country's health direction is the last thing I would have imagined. But here we are. Bizzaro world.
Well, if we're going to consider that... (Score:2)
...I want a statement that autism is created by the Flying Spaghetti Monster. For reasons only He understands, He sometimes reaches out with his noodley appendage and gives kids autism.
Is that true? We don't know, we haven't rigorously investigated it, have we now? Since there's exactly as much evidence to support the FSM as vaccines causing autism, the CDC has a duty to mention both possibilities.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
What COVID vaccine cultists? Are they made out of straw?
Re:Imagine if the COVID vaccine cultists (Score:5, Funny)
No, they're made of wood, and THEREFORE.....
Re:Imagine if the COVID vaccine cultists (Score:4, Insightful)
Wow. How naive. These people are stupid. They support stupid unfounded ideas. Those vaccine cultist you are talking about. We call those people scientists. They know things because they can prove them. Unlike the droolers just making up lies.
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What are you talking about? Did you forget to log out before you responded AC.
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Sorry, I don't speak moron.
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trouble is the "skeptical" people quickly turn into CARRIERS which is worse.
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Vaccines certainly did cut down on transmission (stopping it cold was a media exaggeration). Some teens got mild myocarditis, but many unvaccinated teens got COVID and more severe myocarditis or just plain died.
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For the 1000th time, having a "reaction" listed on VAERS _does not_ mean the vaccine caused the reaction. That is not how it works nor what that site is intended for.
But keep spreading misinformation if it makes you feel better and so you can keep your anti-vax credentials.
Re: (Score:2)
It is a signal, one of many. Just like [1]Significant Increase in Excess Deaths after Repeated COVID-19 Vaccination in Japan [nih.gov].
[1] https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC12095670/
Re:Imagine if the COVID vaccine cultists (Score:4, Insightful)
You mean a country with one of the highest aged populations had a sudden increase in deaths when a highly contagious virus was going around? Well done, Dr. House.
Let's try all the excess deaths of people who weren't vaccinated. Or the ones where coroners [1]deliberately changed death certificates [kansascity.com] or [2]didn't bother to count covid deaths [missouriindependent.com] at all. How about fake reporting [3]to keep the covid death count lower [nih.gov] than it actually was?
[1] https://www.kansascity.com/news/coronavirus/article253147128.html
[2] https://missouriindependent.com/2021/12/22/uncounted-inaccurate-death-certificates-across-the-country-hide-the-true-toll-of-covid-19/
[3] https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7958023/
Re: (Score:2)
You are intentionally misunderstanding what that paper says. Let me simplify it for you - there is a signal that boosters correlate with increased mortality according to a large data set.
Re: Imagine if the COVID vaccine cultists (Score:2)
Where in the actual did you get that idea? Only innumerate imbeciles with abysmal comprehension skills would think that the claimed efficacy of COVID vaccines was 100%.
Re: Imagine if the COVID vaccine cultists (Score:2)
Are you talking about Rachel Maddow?
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> 100% miracle cure for the virus.
Are you suffering from memory loss or "brain fog" ? I'm not sure how months of telling people to wear a mask, stay home if they are sick, and get vaccinated translated to 100% cure in your head.
(effectiveness of last year's vaccine show it to be high in children, 79% and lower in adults, 34%. source: [1]https://www.cdc.gov/acip/downl... [cdc.gov] )
[1] https://www.cdc.gov/acip/downloads/slides-2025-09-18-19/04-Srinivasan-covid-508.pdf
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> Are you suffering from memory loss or "brain fog" ?
Long COVID, if I were to take a guess.
Your candidate for worst lie of our day? (Score:2)
My top candidates just now:
1. It's just a joke.
2. I'm just asking questions. (Most relevant to this story.)
3. AI is good.
So what's your favorite?
In my typically verbose way, I feel like a few words of clarification are called for. Also another attempted joke or two?
The first one is mostly frequently abused as an excuse for bad behavior, including speech behaviors. In particular, there are many lies that used to be taken as proof of character flaws, but now they are just spun away. In orange particular, "The
Re: (Score:2)
That's a whole lot of extra words, instead of just saying that you're a fucking moron who doesn't understand science.
Re: Imagine if the COVID vaccine cultists (Score:2)
If every measurement is a social act, how much faith in humans do you have to have to believe in science?
Re:Imagine if the COVID vaccine cultists (Score:4, Insightful)
Now only if your claim of anyone with relevant knowledge claiming a vaccine is a 100% cure for anything was true.
Spoiler alert: nobody that knows anything about immunology or virology ever made that claim. You did, when erecting a straw man argument.
Re: Imagine if the COVID vaccine cultists (Score:2)
âoeWe can kind of almost see the end,â Walensky told Maddow. âoeWeâ(TM)re vaccinating so very fast, our data from the CDC today suggests, you know, that vaccinated people do not carry the virus, donâ(TM)t get sick, and that itâ(TM)s not just in the clinical trials but itâ(TM)s also in real world data.â
Walensky went on to emphasize the importance of vaccinated people to continue wearing masks and social distancing.
The claim, however, prompted criticism from some scient
Re: Imagine if the COVID vaccine cultists (Score:1)
Imagine if the clueless fucktardicans and sub-human MAGA cultists believed in science and education. We wouldn't be living a real life Idiocracy.
Re: Imagine if the COVID vaccine cultists (Score:2)
When doctors refused to wash hands before surgery because "what you can't see can't hurt you", should they have been challenged?
Re: (Score:2)
They were challenged by other doctors and scientists. The challengers won the day. The MAGA cultists would have been demanding a dose of horse paste before surgery and no Tylenol after.
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It started with shielding vaccine producers from liability for their products while recommending said liability-free products, a perverse incentive that unleashed the unmitigated corporate greed that led to [1]jabbing infants with 17-20 shots in the first 6 months [cdc.gov]. Any other product correlated with [2]the autism avalanche [cdc.gov] would've been scrutinized like Ford's infamous flaming Pinto.
Examination of the evidence is long overdue common sense. Think about it: every product [3]recalled by the FDA [npr.org] was approved and labeled
[1] https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/imz-schedules/child-easyread.html
[2] https://www.cdc.gov/autism/data-research/index.html
[3] https://www.npr.org/2006/05/18/5413812/data-vioxx-heart-risks-began-earlier-than-thought
Sad (Score:3)
While I count myself among the tribe of people who think we should govern ourselves based on evidence-based logic and reason, I have to admit, my tribe is a rather small minority. If the majority of the people in a democracy will not buy into an idea simply because you've provided a sound and well-reasoned argument, then we're going to have to fall back on practical lessons. You'd think measles coming back would be a pretty good object lesson, but apparently not.
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What's funny is that the CDC still publishes [1]measles data [cdc.gov] but I wonder how long that will continue.
[1] https://www.cdc.gov/measles/data-research/index.html#cdc_data_surveillance_section_3-weekly-measles-cases-by-rash-onset-date
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Watching Ken Burn's The American Revolution series. Typically high quality documentary...his format never gets old for me.
One of the themes that struck home was around how the 'Founding Fathers' recognized a particular requirement as they began inventing this bottom-up government, where the mass of citizens wielded the power versus a king, military, or other un-elected ruler.
[paraphrasing] " A Republican democracy underscores the need for a populace that is educated and engaged to uphold the principles of
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" A Republican democracy underscores the need for a populace that is educated and engaged to uphold the principles of self-governance and rule of law. "
I think the word Republican in the above should be spelled with a small r .
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It's also unnecessary. The most common alternative to a republic is a constitutional monarchy, and the presence of a figurehead monarch doesn't make a democracy much more resiliant against determined stupidity.
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> While I count myself among the tribe of people who think we should govern ourselves based on evidence-based logic and reason, I have to admit, my tribe is a rather small minority.
Unfortunately, evidence-based medicine has become a code word for "treat everyone with the same illness identically even when the data doesn't support doing so. That's how I ended up fighting a c. diff. infection. I was hospitalized for a related condition, and the first day of antibiotics put me at no fever, but after a day, I got a fever again, and I asked if the antibiotic had changed, and they said no, but maybe the ER gave me something different. They checked, and determined that yes, I had been on
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> So I'm all for evidence-based medicine as a starting point, but when you realize it isn't behaving normally, you should adjust accordingly.
The thing about adopting evidence-based policy is that you also need to review and if necessary change policy when more evidence becomes available. The kind of situation you're describing would surely qualify.
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>> So I'm all for evidence-based medicine as a starting point, but when you realize it isn't behaving normally, you should adjust accordingly.
> The thing about adopting evidence-based policy is that you also need to review and if necessary change policy when more evidence becomes available. The kind of situation you're describing would surely qualify.
They did review and change the policy. Just too late to do any good. The point is that evidence-based medicine has to be treated as a starting point for diagnosis and treatment decisions, not a rigid decision tree.
Of course, none of that makes the CDC's new claims that "vaccines don't cause autism" isn't an evidence-based statement any less absurd. You can't ever realistically prove definitively that X cannot cause Y, because that would require knowing that there exists no combination of recognizable hum
Re: Sad (Score:2)
Is the evidence you're looking for really just violence against animal testing subjects?
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> you've provided a sound and well-reasoned argument
This is not what is happening here. Anti-vax movement exploded into mainstream as a blow-back for COVID mandates. It was inevitable that forcing mRNA jabs on everyone while calling them vaccines resulted in not insignificant number of people concluding that actual vaccines are a bad idea.
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At this rate, I wonder if the only remaining solution is Darwinian (which they also don't believe in). Hopefully some of the unfortunate children of anti-vaxers will learn the truth and get their doctor to give them the shot anyway (but I'm guessing MAGA will move to make the punishment for that worse than for murder).