You Can't Leave Unless You Buy Something (sfgate.com)
- Reference: 0179999250
- News link: https://news.slashdot.org/story/25/11/07/238257/you-cant-leave-unless-you-buy-something
- Source link: https://www.sfgate.com/food/article/sf-grocery-store-installed-security-measures-21138800.php
> At the Safeway on San Francisco's King Street, you now [1]can't leave the store unless you buy something . The Mission Bay grocery store recently installed new anti-theft measures at the entrance and exit. New gates at the entrance automatically swing open when customers walk in, but they're set to trigger an alarm if someone attempts to back out. And if you walk into Safeway and change your mind about grocery shopping, you might find yourself trapped: Another gate that only opens if you scan your receipt blocks the store's sole exit.
>
> During my Monday visit, I purchased a kombucha and went through the check-out line without incident. (No high-tech gates block the exit if you go through the line like normal.) But for journalism's sake, I then headed back into the store to try going out the new gate. While I watched some customers struggle with the new technology, my receipt scanned immediately. The glass doors slid open, and I was free. But if, like this person on the San Francisco subreddit [2]recounted , I hadn't bought anything, my only means of exit would have been to beg the security guard to let me out.
[1] https://www.sfgate.com/food/article/sf-grocery-store-installed-security-measures-21138800.php
[2] https://www.reddit.com/r/sanfrancisco/comments/1om3w1c/once_you_enter_the_safeway_at_4th_and_king_you/
Scan your receipt to leave (Score:1)
If you want to walk out through the "enter" door you need to scan your receipt.
But you can leave by walking through the line past the tills and scan nothing.
So... what's the problem here?
Re: Scan your receipt to leave (Score:2)
I think the problem is if you planned to steal something, you can't go out the entrance door, but need to walk past the registers and risk getting caught.lol
Re: (Score:1)
Just need a few good Samaritans to leave spare receipts by the entrance door.
Re: (Score:1)
So shoplifters just have to get hold of one old receipt and they're good?
Re: (Score:1)
Because I don't live in SF and have no desire to go there?
But it's obviously just more fake security if all a shoplifter needs to do is get someone's receipt to walk out of the store past the guard.
Welcome to the market California! (Score:3)
You can check out any time you like or you can never leave.
This is very surprising... (Score:5, Interesting)
I work for a Vons (part of Albertons and Safeway) in San Diego. We are specifically directed to not attempt to stop someone from leaving. It's for safety. Anything they are stealing is not worth a physical confrontation. We're directed to use customer service (lol right) to make sure they know we are aware they are there. We often joke that we're directed to offer a bag, shall we place that in your car for you, want to take anything else, let me hold that door for you. It's pretty insane but the last thing anyone wants is violence.
The last thing you really want to do is try to stop someone from leaving. They could turn violent and who knows how things will go down at that point.
I'm not saying this isn't happening but that it seems counter to what I've been told via training materials the company makes us do yearly. We even fired a store manager last year for attempting to prevent someone (wrongly accused by the way) of leaving with a shopping cart of groceries.
Re: (Score:2)
> Let me guess, nobody there is armed? That's probably also "corporate policy"?
I bet there are customers who are armed, as a matter of their own personal policy. When I go to the store, I am always carrying. Based on the local police reports where I live, the petty criminals who would steal shit at the grocery store are also usually armed (but illegally).
Not sure why you want armed guards at Safeway. No amount of groceries is worth anyone's life. And legally, Safeway cannot stop, search, or impede you -- certainly cannot lock you in -- unless they have probable cause. (Not just "reaso
Re: (Score:3)
The whole thing is about perception, it wont really stop people who planned to shop-lift but the number of spur of the moment shop-lifters will drop like a rock because of the perceived risk of getting caught will be much higher. It's a cheap solution with a measurable positive economical effect for the store.
Re: (Score:2)
>> It's a cheap solution with a measurable positive economical effect for the store.
> Some branches of the Co-op (a medium-small supermarket) have a life-sized cardboard cutout of a police officer in the window. It's the same one in every store.
> It works. Not a lot, but it does actually reduce shoplifting.
Oh, I've seen [1]that [gettyimages.com]!
[1] http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news-photo/publicity-portrait-of-american-actor-don-knotts-who-stands-news-photo/56948785
Re: (Score:2)
> The whole thing is about perception, it wont really stop people who planned to shop-lift but the number of spur of the moment shop-lifters will drop like a rock because of the perceived risk of getting caught
Isn't this in San Francisco, where they refuse to prosecute anyone for theft under $800 each time? And where for some strange reason, there are suddenly thousands of incidents of people walking out of grocery, convenience, pharmacy, electronics stores, department stores, and everything else? Sometimes in gangs of rampaging youths, and more often individuals? Casually wheeling out all manner of merchandise, all day long, because it's a lawless city and a free-for-all?
Maybe the problem is not with the doors..
Re: This is very surprising... (Score:2)
Yes, that is very good advice. A lot of the time just knowing that employees are watching and aware of the shoplifter is enough deterrent. For the drug addicts who are off their rocker and unpredictable, you don't want to confront them or risk violence if you are in a position to put yourself in harm's way. It's just not worth it.
Re: (Score:2)
> I work for a Vons (part of Albertons and Safeway) in San Diego. We are specifically directed to not attempt to stop someone from leaving. It's for safety. Anything they are stealing is not worth a physical confrontation.
This is not just for crazies. I think there's something deep in the human/animal psyche that wants to lash out when it feels trapped. Like a feline in a crate, I feel the impotent urge to claw my way out of Ikea mazes and shopping malls without clearly designated exits. If somebody blocked my path in one of those already antagonistically designed environments, the pressure to react would double.
Re: (Score:2)
>> I work for a Vons (part of Albertons and Safeway) in San Diego. We are specifically directed to not attempt to stop someone from leaving. It's for safety. Anything they are stealing is not worth a physical confrontation.
> This is not just for crazies. I think there's something deep in the human/animal psyche that wants to lash out when it feels trapped. Like a feline in a crate, I feel the impotent urge to claw my way out of Ikea mazes and shopping malls without clearly designated exits. If somebody blocked my path in one of those already antagonistically designed environments, the pressure to react would double.
OK. You're not crazy.
Just calm down.
Everything will be fine.
We have someone on the phone who would like to talk to you.
Re: This is very surprising... (Score:2)
the security guard at the door wears a stab proof vest and is 6'5" tall. this is not like your neighborhood grocery store, this is downtown literally across the street from a major train station
This particular safeway (Score:5, Informative)
This safeway is directly across the street from the main "downtown" caltrain station and also two muni rail lines (n judah and ... 4th st? 3rd st?) it's extremely high traffic and they regularly taze resisting shoplifters ,like, a couple times a day. It's both high revenue (mission bay is 14,000 pop/sq mile) and high "loss"/shoplifting. It doesn't surprise me at all that they've had to resort to this. Also "unhoused" encampments pop up along the southern side of the caltrain station on the regular as well as nearby overpasses which.... there's a lot of correlation between that and shoplifting. This is not a bright sunny suburban grocery store, it is part of the ground floor of a huge urban complex building with 600 condos on the 4th-16th floors a couple blocks from Uber and OpenAI headquarters, major genetech offices etc. Context matters.
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
Also "unhoused"
You mean vagrant?
Re: (Score:2)
Are they vagrant if they aren't moving around?
Re: This particular safeway (Score:2)
Do you know that Jainism holds that being unhoused is part of the path to enlightenment? If I'm Jain, can you stop me from being unhoused without violating my religious freedom?
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
No he meant unhoused. And what the fuck is wrong with you? Do you really think you're going anywhere but hell with an attitude like that?
On the other hand Trump said he's not going to heaven so maybe you just want to go to the same place Trump's going...
If you want to blame someone ... (Score:5, Insightful)
.... then blame the shoplifters. And their enablers ("stores have insurance, what's the big deal?").
Trust me, stores don't want to have to do stuff like this.
Re: If you want to blame someone ... (Score:2)
Why should I trust you, when stores act like they're doing me a big favor by letting me shop there?
I don't want to blame anyone (Score:1)
I want to take away the power corporations have to do this and I want to take away their power to starve people so that people aren't feeling the need to shoplift groceries.
As for shoplifting booze since a fuck wad like you is bound to bring it up, people over the age of 21 don't steal booze for the hell of it they're using alcohol to cope with the misery of modern Life. And kids do it here and there and that's nothing more than a youthful indiscretion. Alcohol is cheap and ultra high profit and don't
Re: (Score:1)
Interesting thought: do you think New York's new government-run grocery stores will let people just walk out without paying?
Fire Marshal (Score:3, Insightful)
A locked exit? The fire marshal will shut that down quickly.
Re: (Score:2)
Yeah I don't give a shit if they claim this isn't a problem because it unlocks when the fire alarm goes off screw that noise. This is a little bit of improper maintenance away from being a death trap.
I want to say I wouldn't shop there but I know damn well that with all the monopolies around nasty shit like this will spread everywhere and most places only have two or three grocery chains.
Re: (Score:2)
It has to open in a fire. I can't imagine otherwise; however, I can imagine a slim chance it stops working when the power goes out... but unlikely. Cut the power or light a fire and you are out. Or simply ask an employee. If they won't let you out, call the police which likely they would be doing since you probably are stealing if they won't let you out... or you're robbing them and they don't want you to beat/shoot them to get out... I bet a gun gets you out pretty fast.
What I'd like to know is if they
Re: (Score:2)
If I was trapped in such a store for that particular reason, I'd just sit on the floor, call the cops and report a false imprisonment. Then I'd blog about it online while I wait.
Re: (Score:2)
I bought and read the national fire code once when addressing a local issue. The local fire marshal can possess (it's up to the locale, I presume) the authority to override that code, especially if he considers it to be a special situation. I wonder if these gates have already been approved.
"Beg" (Score:3)
Nice loaded language. Chances are the begging would consist of a brief glance, and maybe a gesture. But I went to the secondary link to check it out anyway.
I sheepishly asked a nearby employee "how do I leave" and they asked "did you buy anything" and I said no, they jokingly told for me to put my hands up and eventually fobbed me out the glass door.
About what I would have expected. Now it suck's that it's there, but how bad is crime that even stores with these scanners are at risk of closure due to theft rates? The Fillmore store comes to mind. "Theft and safety". Sounds like they're trying last ditch efforts to not bail on yet another neighborhood.
Meanwhile all the Safeway stores in my city still have self checkout and no visible security.
Re: "Beg" (Score:2)
Want to bet the stuff they throw out every day dwarfs the theft?
Re: (Score:2)
Want to bet internal theft and embezzlement dwarfs the shoplifting?
Kidnapping? (Score:2)
If you're prevented from leaving, isn't that technically kidnapping?
Re: (Score:2)
No. It's the tortious act of unlawful/false imprisonment, (at least in California).
Kidnapping requires the a force component (real or implicit) as the means of coercion.
Re: (Score:3)
They're not actually prevented from leaving, they just have to ask the personnel to open the door. Like when you are in an airport; after going through security check, there is no way back, you'd have to ask if you want to leave.
Re: Kidnapping? (Score:2)
In what airport? Every one I've been through, there are exits you can just walk out from the secure area. Often right next to the checkpoint.
Re: (Score:2)
Odds are if you really push it just sounds an obnoxious alarm while letting you out. Kind of like pushing against the gates at my walmart to go out the entrance area rather than the checkouts.
I just give zero hoots and do it anyways.
Fire code violation (Score:2)
You cannot lock customers in. It is a safety issue.
The doors MUST open when pushed against. Even automatic sliding doors have safety hinges that allow you to push them open in the event of an emergency or power failure.
Beyond that, refusing to let someone leave could constitute false imprisonment.
Locking yourself in a store with a criminal is a good way to escalate a situation to violence. Sounds risky for employees and other customers nearby.
Re: (Score:2)
Yep, the fire code is how you know the story is wrong.
Re: (Score:2)
> Locking yourself in a store with a criminal is a good way to escalate a situation to violence. Sounds risky for employees and other customers nearby.
"None of you seem to understand. I'm not locked in here with you. You're locked in here with me."
Aunty Wainwright would be proud (Score:2)
Life imitates art I guess. Aunty Wainwright did this back in the 80s in her shop on Last of the summer wine. Although her method was a bit more hands on and personable.
Common in the EU (Score:3)
These are normal in the EU. You end up either asking someone who works there to open the gate or until someone else leaves.
They aren't fun, but aren't new either.
Why not just walk past the line at the checkout? (Score:2)
It's the same in German supermarkets. If you use the self checkout, you have to scan the receipt to get out. Sucks because it's an extra step if you have full hands and if you're from another country you feel mistrusted (oh, those uber-controlling and obviously often stealing Germans) - but you can just get out by the manned checkouts if you didn't buy anything.
Re: (Score:2)
Nah. I walk in to Home Depot, don't find what I want and just walk out the exit door. No problems. Sometimes I even walk out the entrance door.
It's nice to live in a town without homeless bums.
Check your receipt. (Score:2)
Its an obvious hazard if the door is firmly locked. If it just needs to be pushed open and sets off an alarm then they are probably within fire regulations. But given its Safeway I doubt they would care. They would just wait until someone filed a complaint.
Did you check the receipt to make sure you weren't overcharged. Safeway's computers are programmed to regularly charge a different price than the one on the shelf or in their ad or in their app. You need to check each item to make sure you aren't overcha
Re: (Score:2)
The (R) is next the retards' names. If you want proof, just pay attention to what they are doing.
Remember kids if you see somebody shoplifting food (Score:2)
No you didn't.
What does the Fire Marshall think of it? (Score:2)
This likely violates fire code. I wouldn't be surprised if the practice abruptly ends.
Re: (Score:2)
No way they didn't plan for Fires. Many decades of automatic escape doors existed to handle fire.
You simply light up near the smoke alarm and you get out.
Corporate law enforcement (Score:2)
The lawlessness that is consequence of soft on crime politics will lead to corporations taking enforcement into their own hands.
Shoplifters should be tackled and arrested (Score:2)
Entrances can be one way. Exits can be one way. Shoplifters should be tackled and arrested. If they resist, they should be subdued. If they act violently toward a security guard, shooting them can be reasonable.
[1]https://abcnews.go.com/US/san-... [go.com]
Notice they do not dead name the shoplifter, and they call Brown by male pronouns.
One shot by the security guard. No charges.
The lefty Wikipedia article on it: [2]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
I certainly don't support the killing, but Brown did his very best to
[1] https://abcnews.go.com/US/san-francisco-walgreens-security-guard-shoplifter-shooting/story?id=99351464
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Banko_Brown
So.. You can still exit through the exit.. (Score:2)
Many stores have had entrance only doors for a loooooong time. So now with a receipt you can use the enter door and annoy other people trying to enter.
Ok, great.
People not following the standard enter and exit doors always bugged me, and lately there seems to be a lot of people that have no respect for common social etiquette like this little simple thing. For instance it's right there over the two doors at walmart 'Enter' and 'Exit', yet people seem fine nearly walking into you by going the wrong way
Sounds like a fun time with a large group... (Score:1)
Walk in, walk through the store, try to walk out, annoy security guard.
While more people keep walking in, walk through the store, and try to walk out.
Maybe they will get the hint and fix it.
Roach motel (Score:2)
You can go in, but you can't go out.
So, you're a self-described journalist (Score:3)
And you were already in the store, and it didn't occur to you to actually verify this anonymous Reddit user's claims about being locked in, even though you already knew about this claim when you walked into the store?
Not doing reporting legwork (Score:2)
Examine the news article
- Remove all the feelings and emotional appeals
- Highlight the facts
- TODO - See if getting one or more expert opinions outside of the store and its industry representatives would help
- TODO - A little Googling for laws or city ordinances regulating locking a customer in a store or preventing a customer who has committed no crime from leaving the store
Re: (Score:1)
> She already admitted you had to choose to go and get stuck at the new fancy gate. And not just walk out the line as usual.
If you weren't buying something, why would you be getting in the line "as usual", genius? Is that what you do if you go into a store and don't buy something? You get in line?
Re: (Score:2)
> If there's a gate I can't get out of and I just have to walk out past people instead, sure. Why, what do you do? Get stuck and cry about it on the Internet?
If there was a gate I couldn't get past without a receipt, I would:
1) Ask an employee to open the gate for me, or
2) Follow another customer who was leaving
I wouldn't:
Get in a fucking line behind people, wait for them to buy fucking groceries, and then explain to the cashier "Sorry, I'm not actually buying anything, I was just too fucking helpless to ask someone to open the gate for me or follow out another customer."
But you do you, lol.
Re: (Score:1)
> And you were already in the store, and it didn't occur to you to actually verify this anonymous Reddit user's claims about being locked in, even though you already knew about this claim when you walked into the store?
It didn't occur to you that perhaps she wasn't aware that going through the line didn't lead to doors that didn't require scanning?
It didn't occur to you that in order to test if there was a gate that doesn't open unless you scan a receipt, you might test that by buying something, getting a receipt, and go to the exit? And then when you're at the gate you could 1) confirm that there wasn't a way through without scanning a receipt, and 2) scan the receipt to see how the gate worked? Maybe you'd want to t
Re: (Score:1)
Sick burn, AC-who-is-definitely-not-Valgrus Thunderaxe !