Google Says the Quiet Part Out Loud: IP68 Protection Doesn't Last (theverge.com)
- Reference: 0178809992
- News link: https://tech.slashdot.org/story/25/08/21/1727239/google-says-the-quiet-part-out-loud-ip68-protection-doesnt-last
- Source link: https://www.theverge.com/news/762773/google-says-the-quiet-part-louder-ip68-protection-doesnt-last
[1] https://www.theverge.com/news/762773/google-says-the-quiet-part-louder-ip68-protection-doesnt-last
[2] https://tech.slashdot.org/story/25/08/20/1651216/google-refreshes-pixel-lineup-with-tensor-g5-and-qi2-charging-across-four-models
They glue everything up ... so why not? (Score:2)
Keep the sdcard slot hermetically separate from the inside, use a seal with a thermoset polymer (and sell them for repair).
Until the glass cracks, I don't see why these glued up bricks can't be waterproof.
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Phones don't have SD card slots anymore, where have you been?
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And most of these new Pixels don't even have SIM slots. Pretty sure they'll all eSIM now, like the iPhones - EXCEPT for the Fold. Pretty sure I read that one still has a physical SIM tray.
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I think the hardest thing to waterproof are the speakers and microphones, there is also the barometer, USB port, SIM tray, and buttons, I'd say in that order from hard to easy.
Speakers and microphones are particularly hard because you need to let the sound through with minimal resistance, and the better you waterproof these, the worse the sound will be, it is a tradeoff. The usual solution is to use a water repellent membrane made of very thin mesh that lets the air pass through but not the water. But these
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I have a CAT phone. They advertise you can go scuba diving with it. I haven't gone that far with it but mine's been in a lake. All the ports have rubber seals. The latch that lets you access the SIM card and SD card has a seal around it. The speaker and mic have internal covers that slide over them to make them water proof. Sure it distorts the sound, but when you're under water the sound is distorted anyway. Though even if the speakers do get wet, they include a special app to play specific sounds t
So (Score:2)
No warranty then. They can always say you dropped it or it "tumbled".
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if there is any evidence of water exposure then it nullifies your warranty anyways, regardless of whether it's been marketed as "waterproof."
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This is why your device suffered from an extreme thermal runaway event. If they can deduce any kind of water exposure after that you obviously didn't pour enough petrol on it. Make sure that you keep mentioning how lucky you were that it wasn't in your pocket at the time and asking whether or not they will cover damages to your table and they'll be happy to replace the device for you.
Who needed that warning? (Score:2)
The IP68(K) or IPXYZ rating is only valid for a certain span of time, if the rating is a critical consideration you generally have to get systems retested, or, perform serious testing to show environmental response.
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> The IP68(K) or IPXYZ rating is only valid for a certain span of time, if the rating is a critical consideration you generally have to get systems retested, or, perform serious testing to show environmental response.
Nobody is asking for it to be a critical consideration, but if a product advertises water resistance, it is reasonable for a consumer to expect that it will not die if you get it wet during the warranty period, so long as the user doesn't modify the device. A warranty is expected to cover any manufacturing defects, and the way I see it, if a product that is advertised as water resistant has water ingress during the warranty period, 99.99999% of the time, that's a manufacturing defect, and the warranty abso
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It's unethical to claim IP68 for the life of the product, when you know the life could be 10+ years. The argument that IP68 should be active during the warrant period, 100%. My point is that IP68(K) is rarely rated for the lifetime of the product, and the fact Google is pointing that out should not be surprising.
I've done an annoying amount of environmental testing for products, and when you make a claim like IP68(K), there is a time span connected to it, and a likelihood of failure. Usually, unless th
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> It's unethical to claim IP68 for the life of the product, when you know the life could be 10+ years. The argument that IP68 should be active during the warrant period, 100%. My point is that IP68(K) is rarely rated for the lifetime of the product, and the fact Google is pointing that out should not be surprising.
Totally fair. That said, I'm not even sure it's worth mentioning the lifespan of protection in that context. You'd expect a silicone gasket to last at least a decade if not disturbed, and I doubt that even ~0.0000000001% of devices will still be in active use after that long. :-)
Repairs, however, are worth mentioning, because the manufacturer obviously can't guarantee factory sealing after a repair; it depends on whether they do the repair correctly.
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Oh, repairs... dear lord. Trying to order the compliant gasket to assure IP68 vs IP67, well, have fun! Effectively, the IP68 rating makes the phones not repairable, and if you've ever had to do service on devices like that, it's a nightmare. Now, if Google makes everything available, cool, but I've done enough repairs to know they won't, don't and good luck trying to get the right materials.
Different product market, but I had a product once that needed foam replacement. The company, kept sending me fo
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> They're basically just misleading marketing noise at that point.
OK, but you just described the entirety of marketing in the U.S.
Target demographic for folding phones (Score:2)
Right now, it seems like these phones are targeted at the folks who upgrade every year or two - despite the price.
I love the idea in theory, but until it's apparent these sorts of devices can be expected to function well for a minimum of four years... I'm not even going to consider them. My iPhones, my Apple Watches, even an old Android I had before the iPhones - they all were still chugging along at that age.
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I usually aim for at least six years on a phone and that's something that's likely to grow longer. There's very little reason to upgrade every two years as far as I'm concerned. Everything on my current phone is already good enough for what I use my phone for and nothing new that any company has added since then offers a compelling reason to upgrade.
When I was younger I definitely wouldn't have been the type to upgrade more often, but the advances were also far more significant then as well. I'm not sure
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> I usually aim for at least six years on a phone and that's something that's likely to grow longer. There's very little reason to upgrade every two years as far as I'm concerned.
Now a days it's as much about the security and OS updates. Not saying you can't run on an outdated OS, but you will eventually get left behind. Definitely not an "every two" concern, but 6+ years it certainly can be. Google/Samsung(flagship models)/Apple generally have a 5-7 year update, but a lot of the rest usually only cover a few years.
Calling BS Now (Score:2)
This is Google's excuse for building something half ass. I have a handheld Garmin GPS from 2004-2005 that I mount to my kayak, it frequently gets wet, sometimes submerged for a few minutes at a time when my kayak flips over. It still works fine, just as it did when I bought it.
Obviously (Score:4, Interesting)
Seals dry and become brittle. And if you repair, you have to open the thing, which means you break the seal entirely in many cases, or at least you have to break down the glue by heating it.
This really isn't new or interesting. The only relevant piece of data here would be something among the lines of "how long will seals last as long as they're not damaged by careless or intentional damage?"
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Do the seals last as long as the software and security updates for the device? That's good enough for me and (I suspect) most people, though perhaps still not as long as some would like. I treat the feature as an indication that my device won't get damaged in the rain or if it falls into a sink, pool, etc. anyway.
Re:Obviously (Score:4, Informative)
It's worth noting that immersion in a pool is IP69, not IP68, as last numeral 8 is not meant to handle any kind of meaningful pressure. Last numeral 9 is the one that requires being able to handle pressure while immersed.
Pools would generally be deep enough to require at least IP69, though realistically you want ATM ratings for them instead as IP69 does not specify pressures. ATM does.
Re:Obviously (Score:5, Informative)
According to Wikipedia:
IPx7: Immersion, up to 1 meter (3 ft 3 in) depth
IPx8: Immersion, 1 meter (3 ft 3 in) or more depth ... Test duration: agreement with the manufacturer, Depth specified by the manufacturer, generally up to 3 meters (9.8 ft)
IPx9: Powerful high-temperature water jets
World Aquatics specifications for an Olympic-size pool are as follows:
Depth: 2 m (6 ft 7 in) minimum, 3 m (9 ft 10 in) recommended when using the pool for multi discipline.
So, "generally" IP68 devices should survive swimming pools but the depth and time depend on the manufacturer.
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Your daily reminder for everyone who upvote this that wikipedia lies. All the time.
Go look at the original source, not at opinionated drivel that is wikipedia:
[1]https://www.iec.ch/ip-ratings [www.iec.ch]
Free basic explanation from IEC.
If you want full spec text, it's here:
[2]https://webstore.iec.ch/en/pub... [webstore.iec.ch]
In a nutshell: pressure while immersed is NOT specified at any IP rating. This is largely why IP68 and IP69 have become basically meaningless, and this is why Google had to post this sort of a disclamer.
IP ratings in gene
[1] https://www.iec.ch/ip-ratings
[2] https://webstore.iec.ch/en/publication/2452
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Does it float? Because if it doesn't, and you don't have a [1]good friend [youtube.com] nearby, it's a goner in many situations.
Years ago, I bought a [2]Minolta Weathermatic [camera-wiki.org] camera. Good down to 5 meters. But I tested it in the kitchen sink. If I drop it, it floats at the surface.
[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXqEgyMK4ks
[2] https://camera-wiki.org/wiki/Minolta_Weathermatic_35_DL
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What one man can seal, another can unseal and reseal as well as the original was. Just takes the skill, material, and time. Given the usual quality of say, a Wal-Mart or strip mall cell phone shop, one might as well throw away the phone and just buy a new one and save time, money and aggravation. Good techs in anything are hard to come by because the pay usually sucks.
TL:DR
Used to work on down hole oil well measuring devices such as gyroscopic mappers, gamma ray, neutron, induction, acoustic and core sample
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There is, in fact, a difference between equipment designed to be regularly maintained, and equipment designed to be sealed once and never touched again.
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It is definitely 'new' and interesting for most of the consumers out of our tech-savvy bubble, who doesn't know anything about how smartphones are made.
And I bet the disclaimer was added precisely because enough consumers were complaining and demanding replacements for damaged devices.