Volkswagen Wants You To Pay Monthly To Unlock More Horsepower (neowin.net)
- Reference: 0178698510
- News link: https://tech.slashdot.org/story/25/08/16/0242202/volkswagen-wants-you-to-pay-monthly-to-unlock-more-horsepower
- Source link: https://www.neowin.net/news/popular-car-brand-wants-you-to-pay-monthly-to-unlock-more-horsepower/
> Volkswagen is [2]offering a subscription model for extra horsepower on its ID.3 electric cars. Want to bump your ride from the standard 201 bhp to the full 228 bhp? That will be about £16.50 per month or £165 per year, or a one-time £649 "lifetime" fee that is tied to the car, not you. If you sell it, you have to pay again.
>
> VW [3]defended this to the BBC by saying you are basically paying for a sportier experience without buying a higher powered model upfront, calling it "nothing new." Nothing changes mechanically. You are just paying VW to essentially flip a boolean somewhere in the car's software.
[1] https://slashdot.org/~darwinmac
[2] https://www.neowin.net/news/popular-car-brand-wants-you-to-pay-monthly-to-unlock-more-horsepower/
[3] https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c62weyp4qqgo
Idiots (Score:2)
Clearly they don't want to sell any cars!
Re: (Score:2)
Problem is there are bigger idiots who will still buy the car. Look at BMW and their subscription seat heaters. BMW is smart enough to not charge a sub for the turn signals tho.
Re: Idiots (Score:3)
BMW drivers don't use indicators anyway, so adding a sub for them wouldn't make BMW (or Audi) any money.
Re: (Score:2)
BMW didn't do that after all.
Mercedes already sells an increased power subscription for their EVs though.
Re: (Score:2)
> Problem is there are bigger idiots who will still buy the car. Look at BMW and their subscription seat heaters. BMW is smart enough to not charge a sub for the turn signals tho.
It’s really not that new of an idea. Companies for years made a base model that you could add upgrades to and pay extra for them; and in some cases things like wiring for them was already installed, all that was missing was some hardware. The difference was they were hardware and thus a subscription model didn’t work. In others, the build order could be changed in software to add features
BMW let you pay once to add the feature if you wanted, and a subscription model can be beneficial to the c
Re: Stop this Slashdot. (Score:3)
What is shit about it, is VW doing this shit, not BBC reporting it.
Re: (Score:2)
> I come here precisely to avoid that sensationalist crap.
Your desire to avoid it explains why you clicked into the story and posted a comment.
Wait, what?
Slashdot is owned by a corporation on which an algorithm runs. And it is functionally the same as the algorithm behind every social media network: If people engage with it, deliver more of it.
Guess what you did by engaging with the content you say you don't want to see?
Re: Stop this Slashdot. (Score:4, Insightful)
Interestingly BBC are one of the more neutral and honest news reporters.
I guess if you want biased news that only echoes your own personal beliefs then, yeah, don't read their stuff.
I can't wait for Louis Rossmann to offer a bounty (Score:2)
to hack this shit.
[1]https://youtu.be/_gZrvHCO83I [youtu.be]
[1] https://youtu.be/_gZrvHCO83I
Re: (Score:2)
Speaking of Louis, I haven't seen anything from him in months. Hope he's ok and hasn't been shit upon by the powers-that-be.
Re: (Score:2)
[1]https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
He's been posting regularly, this is a few hours ago...
[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zc4KOESdOms
Should be illegal (Score:1)
They should just ask the price for the hardware they sell you, no subscriptions for the hardware you already own. If you lease a car they can do crap like this, but not when you buy a car. But hee, behaviour like this is what you expect from a car manufacturer that wouldn't even be here if it wasn't for its Nazi heritage.
Does it include heated seats (Score:2)
Extra engine power is only worth it when going above the speed limit, the real benefit is making sure the seats are warm.
If not, it's a scam to pay 7.99/month on-top of the extra engine speed.
Re: Does it include heated seats (Score:2)
In Germany 2/3 of autobahn has no speed limit...
Re: (Score:2)
> Extra engine power is only worth it when going above the speed limit,
If you differentiate once again by time, you'll find a physical phenomenon called "acceleration".
Einstein taught us that it can be experienced completely independently of any fixed speed limit.
Re: (Score:3)
> "Extra engine power is only worth it when going above the speed limit"
That is absolutely incorrect. ANY car can drive above the speed limit without issue. Increased power lets you accelerate faster, or haul/tow more.
> "If not, it's a scam to pay 7.99/month on-top of the extra engine speed."
It absolutely is a scam to charge a "subscription" to something already in the vehicle and ready for use that requires no upkeep on their part. Data services, map updates, things like that, might make sense. But
How much to pass emissions tests? (Score:2)
How much to pass [1]VW emissions tests? [wikipedia.org]
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_emissions_scandal
Re: (Score:2)
It's an electric car, so...
\o/ (Score:1)
How much do we have to pay so that we can forget emissions-gate ?
Normal in software (Score:1)
This is pretty normal in the software world. Consider: you buy some sort of online service. Maybe AWS. Literally every aspect of the service is *there* but you only get the extras if you pay for them. They just have to flip a boolean. Why do we find this offensive, when hardware is involved? Maybe just because it is unfamiliar?
Re:Normal in software (Score:5, Informative)
Because you bought the hardware.
When you rent server time from AWS you haven't bought their datacenter.
Re: (Score:1)
Anyone who does not find pay/peek vomitous has been thoroughly corrupted by USA mercantile culture. Should a performing singer charge extra for his/low ... her/high notes in a song ? Should a writer charge extra for the "good parts" of his book? Should a furniture store charge extra for legs on a table (yes, I know)? Or -- should all products be made as perfectly functional given the expressed craft limitations. Kinda reminds me of landlords who encourage casual street crime to force
Re: (Score:2)
> "This is pretty normal in the software world. [...] Why do we find this offensive, when hardware is involved?"
Because with software, they are supposed to MAINTAIN it. You get updates, added features, security patches.... things that take effort and add value.
In the case of hardware, like this, you already paid for the hardware. The motor is already capable of more power, they just lobotomize it so you can't use what you paid for. You still have to haul a larger motor around with you, whether the full
Re: (Score:2)
Indeed.
When I worked in the consumer genetics industry, I learned that for some DNA tests, they would always perform the highest level test, regardless of which level you bought. Then, if you "upgraded" all they did was flip a switch so you could see more of your markers, that had already been tested.
Tesla does it too! (Score:1)
$2,000 lifetime for a modest bump ("acceleration boost") that stays with the car...
Re: (Score:2)
Came here to say the same thing. They're just copying Tesla. Given Tesla's current sales trajectory, VW may wish to rethink that plan.
But you already bought it (Score:3, Informative)
> ... you are basically paying for a sportier experience without buying a higher powered model upfront
But you did buy it upfront. All the hardware and software for that sportier experience is already in the vehicle... except for that toggle bit. If it required swapping in upgraded parts, an up-charge would be reasonable. But to differentiate price on toggling a bit on or off, while not uncommon in the world today, still smells like corporate thievery.
Hey VW (Score:5, Informative)
Fuck you.
Market power (Score:3)
Best thing that we as consumers can do it not pay for this BS. Make the whole business case crumble with no uptake. I'd like to see consumer bodies pushing back on this stuff, if you have to have stuff installed in your car that you pay for (energy input costs) to cart around that you can't use due to a hostage subscription, then the manufacturer can pay the consumer for their inconvenience and cost. Similar to the idea of unlocking extra battery capacity via software, if you're already carrying the batteries around (extra weight), but the maker won't let you use it via software, charge the maker for the extra mass!
Re: (Score:3)
> I'd like to see consumer bodies pushing back on this stuff, if you have to have stuff installed in your car that you pay for (energy input costs) to cart around that you can't use due to a hostage subscription
You're really not paying anything extra for any of the equipment if you don't use it in this case, because they need that hardware to do maximum regenerative braking. It works in both directions, and they're "only" not allowing you to use it to make the car accelerate faster without paying them. I think that too is wrong, but you're overstating the case.
> Similar to the idea of unlocking extra battery capacity via software
Even in a pay-for-range scheme (which I don't rule out happening eventually, but will probably be the last thing they implement along these lines) you're st
Mistake in the summary (Score:2)
Summary says "If you sell it, you have to pay again." This is the opposite of what is in TFS "the upgrade would remain on the car if it was sold on." [1]https://www.bbc.com/news/artic... [bbc.com]
[1] https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c62weyp4qqgo
I will NEVER buy an automobile with this (Score:2)
Subscriptions paymentx for full use of the product I own is criminal, I hope this comes back to bite VW in the ass and the pocketbook
The 1401 (Score:1)
This reminds me of a story about the IBM 1401, a workhorse business computer in the days before the System/360. It shipped with 4K of RAM. If the customer upgraded to the 8K model, the IBM CE would come out and remove a jumper. Voila!
Summary is misleading (Score:2)
This is what the article actually says:
"A customer can also choose a £649 "lifetime" subscription, but that is tied to the car, not the individual. If you sell your car and buy another ID.3, you would have to pay the fee again."
Well... (Score:2)
I don't entirely hate the idea. VW gets a benefit from simplifying hardware variation, just unlocks via software.
> a one-time £649 "lifetime" fee that is tied to the car, not you. If you sell it, you have to pay again.
Summary is unclear. The article also notes that Volkswagen did not clarify whether the upgrade is tied to your account or to the car.
If it's to the car, then.... *shrug* . If it's to the user...I guess it depends one whether that upgrade is applicable to future cars (seems unlikely).
What I would fear would be treating it like certain console games where you could sell the game disc but certain fe
"fee tied to the car" ? (Score:2)
> A customer can also choose a £649 "lifetime" subscription, but that is tied to the car, not the individual. If you sell your car and buy another ID.3, you would have to pay the fee again.
I don't know, why wouldn't a "lifetime feature subscription" not be tied to the car? Should I expect a future, new car to automatically have features I had paid for on a previous car? What would be crappy is if the "lifetime" subscription goes away on the existing car if I sell it.
What would be worse is if
Motorcycle riders pay for ECU tuning (Score:3)
Motorcycle riders pay to have their ECU flashed with tuning parameters to improve the performance of the bike.
Here's one popular site: [1]https://www.ivansperformancepr... [ivansperfo...oducts.com] . It cost me about $400 to flash my Ninja ECU.
Paying the manufacturer for it at least doesn't violate the warranty
[1] https://www.ivansperformanceproducts.com/index.htm
Re: (Score:3)
Until last year or so Ford owners could download someone else's tune on the internets and load it into their PCM with a $15 cable (A $10 cable that's been hacked to add a switch which does a pin swap.) Alas, Ford has begun locking PCMs recently, and they were pretty much the last manufacturer not to.
How stupid do you have to be? (Score:5, Insightful)
This kind of business model has gotten extremely bad results, time and again. How incompetent and stupid do you have to be to try it again?
Re:How stupid do you have to be? (Score:5, Informative)
> It's from the company that brought you diesel gate. Yet you are surprised?
You mean Bosch? Otherwise you can't say "the" company, because all of the German automakers cheated, but they all did it with assistance from Bosch, who makes the PCMs for all of their vehicles. (And most of the sensors and actuators, too.)
Re: (Score:1)
It went beyond that, too. It was VW that got caught. Dieselgate is nothing but a smear, the people responsible for the protocols that were so easily cheated should also be held accountable.
Re: (Score:2)
> the people responsible for the protocols that were so easily cheated should also be held accountable.
That's not what happened. The offenders got caught. The protocols did their job. The machinery of justice moves slowly. By all means fix that, but don't complain about the parts that worked.
Re:How stupid do you have to be? (Score:5, Funny)
At least it's not a brake or airbag subscription, yet...
Re: (Score:2)
Don't give them ideas ...
Re: How stupid do you have to be? (Score:2)
Electronic brakes like this
[1]https://youtube.com/shorts/u3y... [youtube.com]
[1] https://youtube.com/shorts/u3yxkNUcyk8?si=uK0Uw8r4fgoB30nm
Re: (Score:2)
Companies like APR and Unitronic have been selling software tunes for about the same price for VW and Audi for a long time. VW is just getting in on the game now. You can buy a Stage 1 APR tune for ~$500 and add the same kind of bump in performance to your 2.0t, and its just software, no additional hardware required. This is not uncommon for other brands either. The same engines are used across a variety of models, all tuned for the audience. Its been software controlling it for a long time, this is nothing
Re: How stupid do you have to be? (Score:2)
But isn't that on ICE cars where they make them polute too much?
Re: How stupid do you have to be? (Score:1)
Yes and it's similar here. You up the performance, you lower the efficiency. Selling it after market helps them keep regulators happy with good numbers at the time of sale, but gives consumers the option to have more power with lower range. Not defending it, just part of the game unfortunately.
Re: (Score:2)
Since this is the new normal, it's appears we're not nearly as intelligent as we think we are. Few people understand or want to understand how classism has crippled our society. Greed outweighs intellect everytime.
Re: (Score:2)
Unfortunately, you may well not be wrong on that.
Re: (Score:3)
yes, it's unfortunate but it's karma, we the people get the business we deserve, what goes around, comes around. Ethics aren't some abstract concept, without ethics, societies cannot function, nor can individuals. What we see is the breakdown of personal ethics reflected by a decline in our society. This is the inevitable result of greed, irresponsibility and selfishness. Spoiled rotten people going bad. Karma isn't a reality, karma is the reality.
Re:How stupid do you have to be? (Score:5, Interesting)
Calling all hackers, calling all hackers....
Since you already own the car, hacking it to unleash its full potential can't be a crime.
Mind you... I've been using electronic test equipment for decades with similar stupidity. You buy an oscilloscope and it has a specified bandwidth and/or feature set. Pay more money, enter a code and voila -- it suddenly has a higher bandwidth and/or more features. Everything was in their when you bought it, you're just paying to activate it. Once again though, many bits of kit have been hacked to sidestep these artificial limitations.
Re: classism has crippled our society (Score:2)
Costco (the big box store) has joined this sick crowd.
If you want to shop in the morning when they open the doors you now have to upgrade$$ your membership to 'gold star' or 'executive' otherwise you as a regular member have to wait for another hour before getting the privilege of shopping at the store.
Re: classism has crippled our society (Score:2)
Actually, with the increased credit card reward, Costco pays me foe the privilege to shop earlier than others.
Re: (Score:2)
You mean this isn't illegal in Germany!!??