As Electric Bills Rise, Evidence Mounts That U.S. Data Centers Share Blame (apnews.com)
- Reference: 0178635814
- News link: https://hardware.slashdot.org/story/25/08/10/1845255/as-electric-bills-rise-evidence-mounts-that-us-data-centers-share-blame
- Source link: https://apnews.com/article/electricity-prices-data-centers-artificial-intelligence-fbf213a915fb574a4f3e5baaa7041c3a
"Some critics question whether states have the spine to take a hard line against tech behemoths like Microsoft, Google, Amazon and Meta."
> [T]he Data Center Coalition, which represents Big Tech firms and data center developers, has said its members are committed to paying their fair share. But growing evidence suggests that the electricity bills of some Americans are rising to subsidize the massive energy needs of Big Tech as the U.S. competes in a [2]race against China for [3]artificial intelligence superiority . Data and analytics firm Wood Mackenzie published a report in recent weeks that suggested 20 proposed or effective specialized rates for data centers in 16 states it studied aren't nearly enough to cover the cost of a new natural gas power plant. In other words, unless utilities negotiate higher specialized rates, other ratepayer classes — residential, commercial and industrial — are likely paying for data center power needs. Meanwhile, Monitoring Analytics, the independent market watchdog for the mid-Atlantic grid, produced research in June showing that 70% — or $9.3 billion — of last year's increased electricity cost was the result of data center demand.
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> Last year, five governors led by Pennsylvania's Josh Shapiro began pushing back against power prices set by the mid-Atlantic grid operator, PJM Interconnection, after that amount spiked nearly sevenfold. They warned of customers "paying billions more than is necessary." PJM has yet to propose ways to guarantee that data centers pay their freight, but Monitoring Analytics is floating the idea that data centers should be required to procure their own power. In a filing last month, it said that would avoid a "massive wealth transfer" from average people to tech companies.
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> At least a dozen states are eyeing ways to make data centers pay higher local transmission costs. In Oregon, [4]a data center hot spot , lawmakers passed legislation in June ordering state utility regulators to develop new — presumably higher — power rates for data centers. The Oregon Citizens' Utility Board [a consumer advocacy group] says there is clear evidence that costs to serve data centers are being spread across all customers — at a time when some electric bills there are up 50% over the past four years and utilities are disconnecting more people than ever.
"Some data centers could require more electricity than cities the size of Pittsburgh, Cleveland or New Orleans," the article points out...
[1] https://apnews.com/article/electricity-prices-data-centers-artificial-intelligence-fbf213a915fb574a4f3e5baaa7041c3a
[2] https://apnews.com/article/trump-ai-artificial-intelligence-3763ca207561a3fe8b35327f9ce7ca73
[3] https://apnews.com/article/trump-artificial-intelligence-energy-data-centers-f216660b80f992ae303b348dac0b2f87
[4] https://apnews.com/article/data-centers-artificial-intelligence-technology-amazon-google-56b84cbb94942039754282afb076a87b
The problem is not data centers (Score:4, Insightful)
The problem is investor owned utilities
Re: (Score:2)
Yeah but we aren't allowed to question the benefits of competition and Private industry and we are allowed to question the benefits of dropping it yet another data center with 30 to 50 jobs in our cities.
There are all sorts of cases where we solve problems in the stupidest way imaginable because we can't think about things using a framework that is outside what we were taught during the critical 4 to 14 demographics
Time to alter pricing structures. (Score:5, Insightful)
Instead of charging less for buys who purchase a LOT of power, it would be logical to alter the pricing structure so that they have to pay more. This is scheme would be a logical way to encourage businesses to be more power efficient.
Before someone goes off saying it would blow up the economy, I would point out that this shouldn't be an overnight change but a gradual one in order to let businesses adjust.
Re:Time to alter pricing structures. (Score:4, Insightful)
Pretty much this. If your biggest customers aren't also your most profitable, you're doing capitalism wrong.
New House Rule: AI can only use renewable power (Score:2)
Now THAT's an externality.
Re: (Score:1)
I don't even think they have to be charged higher rates; it should be enough to simply charge everyone the same rate.
Re: (Score:2)
And the true irony is that for common residential rates, they use tiers. I think we have 5. Tier1 is like a nickel/KWh and is only a couple hundred KWh, tier 2 is like a dime, tier 3 is around 15c, tier 4 is 20 and tier 5 is maybe 30, never hit that one. Meanwhile commercial get price breaks for using more.
Re: (Score:2)
Honestly the real solution here is we are just going to stop letting regular people have electricity.
I don't think people realize that our ruling class has had enough of us peasants having civilization.
People don't seem to realize that the average Joe has really only enjoyed civilization for about a hundred years or so depending on the country you live in.
There is absolutely no reason that can't just all be taken away from you so that we can go back to having kings and queens and emperors
Re: (Score:2)
The middle class will pay for that too.
Re: (Score:2)
In the end, the middle class pays for everything. Because that's where the money is.
Sure. But... (Score:5, Informative)
Nuclear power plants cost billions to build and billions more to run and decommission.
The problem, as the article explained, is that the rates that the data centers pay will not cover the costs of the generation and transmission facilities that the data centers will require to be built. The cost of the generation and transmission will be partially paid by consumers(residential).
This has sort of been the case with commercial vs. residential rates for a long time. But now, the data centers are using dramatically more power than even most commercial users and it's being subsidized by everyone else. The data centers are getting the power far too cheaply.
Re: (Score:2)
Indeed, very cheap. The Brits are planning to dismantle Sellafield for only £243 billion and will need 100 years for it.
A Wind-Generator is somewhat cheaper to dismantle.
And you don't have to guard the parts from terrorists form184,000 years.
Re: (Score:2)
Because your power bills aren't high enough you want more of the most expensive form of energy generation in the mix?
Re: (Score:1)
The biggest expense when it comes to nuclear is the fear of nuclear. Other countries, including our allies in Europe, can figure out how to do it for far less.
Build it (Score:2)
It's due to innovation cycles that infrastructure gets built laying the foundation for the next 50+ years. There's been a lot of head-scratching for the last 20 years about how to fund modernization of power generation and distribution, and now there are vast sums of investment going into data centers. Problem, meet solution.
In large measure I am just saying this is how it will play out, rather than advocating for something, but we (citizens of the democracy) need to ensure the investments are sound lon
Wrong target to grow a spine against (Score:2)
It doesn't take spine to yell at corporations, it's easy to get elected yelling at corporations. What does take spine is:
1. building nuclear plants to make energy cheaper for all, and telling the locals and faux environmentalists to go f themselves when they try to stop it with timewaster court cases
2. building solar and wind against current Federal hamstringing
3. keeping natural gas around as a heat source despite hairbrained ideas of moving all cooking and heating to the grid
Correction (Score:2)
Should read "harebrained" instead of "hairbrained". Hares are probably more intelligent than hairs, but what do I know, I'm just chimp++.
Re: (Score:3)
So... it takes a spine to throw even more of ratepayer's money at the problem that these data centers are causing?
The whole argument is that these large consumers are being indirectly subsidized by households. Everything you have suggested will just make that worse .
Charge these places out the ass for all the power they're sucking up. They got the money to pay it, or they can build their own power infrastructure.
=Smidge=
Re: (Score:2)
I'm going to have to disagree. It does take a spine, because what the dc guys argue is give us power [and tax] breaks because we are bringing in JOBS. And JOBS are like for the children. Always works. Of course they always whisper the puny amount of jobs they will generate.
Going up... (Score:2)
So, last time I checked, openAI has its servers in the US. So each AI query I do in the EU raises the electricity prices in the US by a miniscule amount? Trump will know how to deal with this. This time he can make himself useful. Wait... that is not what he uses his energy for.
Expel immigrants, increase mortality... (Score:2)
This is what government can do to help Big Tech and reduce energy usage of population:
1. Expel immigrants - removing 10-15 million people will decrease energy usage and allow for more energy for AI
2. Increase mortality:
a) remove public health insurance
b) ban vaccines
c) remove pollution norms
Re: (Score:2)
> This is what government can do to help Big Tech and reduce energy usage of population:
> 1. Expel immigrants - removing 10-15 million people will decrease energy usage and allow for more energy for AI
> 2. Increase mortality: a) remove public health insurance b) ban vaccines c) remove pollution norms
So, elect Donald Trump as president again?
So... Lemme get this straight: (Score:3)
1. Don't pay for copyrighted material
2. Don't pay to build out the power infrastructure you require
3. Pay less than consumers for commodity power
4. Profit!
I think "eat the rich" ought to come back in fashion.
Need rolling blackouts of data centers (Score:2)
Save power for the rest of us.
This can't be solved on the state leve (Score:2)
It's easy for a hard line stance to be taken by one person. It's more difficult for it to be taken by 50 people. Do you think you have 50 sane governors in America all aligned on the interests of the consumer? If you don't (which you don't) then these data centres will be built regardless. Now power is no longer a question and the all consideration devolves down to where you want the joooooobs.
It's the principle of tragedy of commons played down on a jobs / power resource basis. It makes absolute sense for
Too late for that (Score:5, Insightful)
> Monitoring Analytics is floating the idea that data centers should be required to procure their own power. In a filing last month, it said that would avoid a "massive wealth transfer" from average people to tech companies.
Remind me how much Elon Musk, Jeff Bezos, Bill Gates, and Mark Zuckerburg are worth again? And what was the subject of that little tax bill the Republicans pushed through Congress recently?
Re: (Score:3)
I think that 93_Escort_Wagon is talking about wealthy corporations using their political clout to externalize their costs and enable more profits
In much the same way that reducing the progressive tax rate on the wealthy puts more money in their pockets (while reducing the Middle class), demanding the communities expand their power generation without considering who the users are, will allow the data center operators to externalize their costs by getting the general public to pay for it. through either publi
Re: (Score:2)
Elon Musk has been using a lot of drugs, so his organs are worth below average.
Re: (Score:2)
Remember, Elon is the only one that runs a solar power company, too.