Meta Eavesdropped On Period-Tracker App's Users, Jury Rules (sfgate.com)
- Reference: 0178585534
- News link: https://yro.slashdot.org/story/25/08/06/021226/meta-eavesdropped-on-period-tracker-apps-users-jury-rules
- Source link: https://www.sfgate.com/tech/article/meta-eavesdropped-period-tracker-app-20803399.php
> The case goes back to 2021, when eight women sued Flo and a group of other tech companies, including Google and Facebook, now known as Meta. The stakes were extremely personal. Flo asked users about their sex lives, mental health and diets, and guided them through menstruation and pregnancy. Then, the women alleged, Flo shared pieces of that data with other companies. The claims were largely based on a 2019 [2]Wall Street Journal story and a 2021 Federal Trade Commission [3]investigation . Google, Flo and the analytics company Flurry, which was also part of the lawsuit, reached settlements with the plaintiffs, as is common in class action lawsuits about tech privacy. But Meta stuck it out through the entire trial and lost.
>
> The case against Meta focused on its Facebook software development kit, which Flo added to its app and which is generally used for analytics and advertising services. The women alleged that between June 2016 and February 2019, Flo sent Facebook, through that kit, various records of "Custom App Events" -- such as a user clicking a particular button in the "wanting to get pregnant" section of the app. Their complaint also pointed to Facebook's terms for its business tools, which said the company used so-called "event data" to personalize ads and content.
>
> In a 2022 [4]filing (PDF), the tech giant admitted that Flo used Facebook's kit during this period and that the app sent data connected to "App Events." But Meta denied receiving intimate information about users' health. Nonetheless, the jury [5]ruled (PDF) against Meta. Along with the eavesdropping decision, the group determined that Flo's users had a reasonable expectation they weren't being overheard or recorded, as well as ruling that Meta didn't have consent to eavesdrop or record. The unanimous verdict was that the massive company violated the California Invasion of Privacy Act.
The jury's ruling could impact over 3.7 million U.S. users who registered between November 2016 and February 2019, with updates to be shared via email and a [6]case website . The exact compensation from the trial or potential settlements remains uncertain.
[1] https://www.sfgate.com/tech/article/meta-eavesdropped-period-tracker-app-20803399.php
[2] https://www.wsj.com/articles/you-give-apps-sensitive-personal-information-then-they-tell-facebook-11550851636
[3] https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/news/press-releases/2021/01/developer-popular-womens-fertility-tracking-app-settles-ftc-allegations-it-misled-consumers-about
[4] https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.cand.372884/gov.uscourts.cand.372884.173.0.pdf
[5] https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.cand.372884/gov.uscourts.cand.372884.756.0_2.pdf
[6] https://periodtrackerdataprivacylitigation.com/
Such a surprise (Score:3)
Obviously, these companies grab and sell any and all data they can get their hands on. Equally obviously, that should get the ones ordering this and the ones doing it sent to prison for an extended period of time. Unless and until that happens, nothing is going to change.
Re: (Score:3)
And the simple solution to achieve this is to ban user tracking.
Re: (Score:2)
> Obviously, these companies grab and sell any and all data they can get their hands on. Equally obviously, that should get the ones ordering this and the ones doing it sent to prison for an extended period of time. Unless and until that happens, nothing is going to change.
And that is why women especially need to be constantly advised to not share personal stuff online. The Tea app and its breach is another example.
Targeted chocolate ads (Score:2, Funny)
No doubt, it was used for harmless targeted advertising of chocolate ice cream.
Re: (Score:2)
> No doubt, it was used for harmless targeted advertising of chocolate ice cream.
With genuine pickle chunks.
Here's to hoping (Score:5, Insightful)
Here's to hoping that this success inspires other lawsuits to follow. I'm so sick and tired of these damned settlements; every one of them carries the line "Plaintiff alleges ... as redress for these grievances, defendant will..." meaning that no one is found guilty of wrongdoing, and it can't be used to determine guilt in any other court proceeding.
Fuck our corporate overlords.
Re: (Score:2)
Yeah that's kind of the difference between civil law and criminal law.
Once upon a time.... (Score:3, Insightful)
People used to put all their private thoughts and activities in a diary, and became angry if any one read them.
Today they post all of that publicly, and become angry if people don't read them.
Re: (Score:2)
This is actually incorrect as only a small number of people (percentage) post anything other than curated thoughts and activities. That's also not that different from people before, even going back to the early days of radio.
What we need is something as tough, if not tougher, than GPDR in the US.
Re: (Score:2)
> This is actually incorrect as only a small number of people (percentage) post anything other than curated thoughts and activities. That's also not that different from people before, even going back to the early days of radio.
> What we need is something as tough, if not tougher, than GPDR in the US.
Or maybe people who take a joke for what it is, not go ackkually.
Re: (Score:2)
Are you really equating a period tracking app to social media?
Re: (Score:2)
> Are you really equating a period tracking app to social media?
Are you really missing the point? What reason is there to share with the world that it is your period?
Because there are - believe it or not - period trackers that don't share all of that, yet do the same thing. Just not on the internet. So unless your computer is hacked, it stays right on the computer.
There are also some folks that consider the possibility this is a far right wing honeypot. While I doubt that, if you share intimate details to the Intertoobz in this day and age, you need to understand t
Re: (Score:2)
This is a vague statement about social media and has NOTHING TO DO WITH THE ARTICLE wherein people tracking their medical, health, and family planning efforts via an app, where they had a reasonable expectation of privacy, had that privacy infringed upon for profit. Moreover, given that some states have recently criminalized certain forms of family planning, these actions are seen as an extreme risk for the safety of those users.
Re: (Score:2)
> This is a vague statement about social media and has NOTHING TO DO WITH THE ARTICLE wherein people tracking their medical, health, and family planning efforts via an app, where they had a reasonable expectation of privacy, had that privacy infringed upon for profit. Moreover, given that some states have recently criminalized certain forms of family planning, these actions are seen as an extreme risk for the safety of those users.
Sit down my enraged friend And try not to use the caps lock. First thing is, learn to understand what a joke is, and try not to fly into a rage when all it does is makes you look demented.
Second thing is - since you cannot see humor without taking a fit, I'll address this. Did you know that there are actual programs, and have been for years, that people have used to track their various cycles? Ovulation, menses, circadian rhythm. This ain't rocket science. IIRC I wrote one for the Commodore 64 way back
How wasn't it Flo's fault? (Score:4, Insightful)
Flo added the Facebook SDK. Flo sent the data. Isn't all this on them?
What's wrong with this:
"Flo sold your data to Facebook."
"Facebook? Those bastards! I'm suing Facebook!"
That doesn't make sense to me. Flo gave them the user data, Flo is at fault. Flo should have taken steps to make sure that data didn't go to anyone else. The recipients are not at fault for being given data they shouldn't have received.
Re: (Score:3)
Flo was named in the suit. They settled. It's right in the summary.
Re: (Score:2)
But why didn't it end there? They're the ones who disclosed information they shouldn't have and did it by integrating kits they knew would harvest data. If Flo didn't have permission to do it, that's on them. Is Facebook's due diligence to include vetting the practices of a vendor? That doesn't sound right.
Re: (Score:2)
The recipients are not at fault for being given data they shouldn't have received.
Facebook is not a naive recipient in the story though. Flo used Facebook's tools to develop their app.
Facebook's user interface toolkit causes certain events such as clicking a certain button within an App to be sent back to Facebook to be logged and possibly data mined; most likely to allow users to be correlated to certain Ad audiences.
What does not make sense is why would end users think that Facebook is not recording
Re: (Score:2)
A website works fine without RECORDING the clicks. It's the difference between
"The user clicked X; do Y" and
"Record the fact that the user clicked X; now do Y".
Re: (Score:2)
Yeah, Flo used tools they knew harvested data and didn't make sure they weren't handing over data they shouldn't have.
Which is why I'm baffled by the suit against Meta. They didn't do anything they don't already do legally. It just doesn't sound like they were at all at fault.
You should take your last thought further. Expand it. Why would end users think that any service provided without payment isn't mining their data for sale to advertisers?
I don't know much about Flo, but if it was "free", th
Re: (Score:2)
How wouldn't the makers of the spyware tool not have liability for the data that they collected?
Pawn shops are a pretty decent physical analog. If you set up a dropbox and distribute instructions and bags to place in the dropbox, then you turn around and sell the collected goods. If someone puts illegal materials such as those stolen from someone, why wouldn't you have liability for selling stolen goods?
Re: (Score:2)
Does the pawn shop know? They get bulletins from the police about stolen items. Did anyone tell Meta, "Flo is sending you data they shouldn't be collecting"? Hell, did Flo know it?
Was Flo a paid service or "free"? At what point should the burden be on the user to recognize that "free" = "we harvest every bit we can and sell it"?
I was listening to the radio, and one of the guys was talking about how he used some tool to see what apps were tracking what. He had an app he had installed for a music fe
Re: (Score:2)
> Does the pawn shop know?
Most states require them to do their due diligence.
> Did anyone tell Meta, "Flo is sending you data they shouldn't be collecting"? Hell, did Flo know it?
You can see what they require now. [1]Blog post [facebook.com] and [2]App Privacy Policy [apple.com] Neither seems to onerous.
> burden be on the user to recognize that "free" = "we harvest every bit we can and sell it"?
Depends do they live in a jurisdiction that has privacy protections?
[1] https://developers.facebook.com/blog/post/2022/07/18/resources-for-completing-app-store-data-practice-questionnaires-apps-facebook-or-audience-network-sdk
[2] https://developer.apple.com/app-store/app-privacy-details/
Re: (Score:2)
If I paid a member of your household to film you without your permission and send me the video, that family member would be guilty of a crime as would I.
Re: (Score:2)
That isn't what happened though. To fit your analogy, it would be me filming myself and giving it to someone so they could analyze it and give me a report, but who then also went ahead and sold it.
If I filmed myself doing some stretches and sent the video to my chiropractor so he could tell me what I was doing wrong, and then he put it on YouTube, I'd be mad at him, not YouTube. How is this different?
Re: (Score:2)
I disagree with your assessment. Let's go through my proposed analogy detail by detail because I think it works.
* Flo = Landlord
* App = Rental residence
* App terms and conditions = Rental Lease
* Flo User = Resident
* Using App = Walking around the residence
* Recording actions in the app = The landlord filming walking around the residence (which you agreed to as a term of your lease)
* Recording app open/close actions = The landlord filming entering and exiting the house
* Facebook paying Flo for details on how
These apps are a TERRIBLE idea (Score:1)
You've got to be out of your mind to use apps like this and give anyone this kind of information. In the wrong hands, it can get you arrested or killed.
Re:These apps are a TERRIBLE idea (Score:4, Informative)
It's a very common and useful thing if you're trying to get pregnant. People used to do it on paper. An app is much easier. And the app should respect your privacy.
I have three kids thanks to one of these apps. And then I continued to use it to know what days to avoid being at home.
Re: (Score:2)
Don't get me wrong, I get the point of these apps, but you have to assume anymore that these apps are going to share any data they think they can monetize. And in this case, that data is of great value to the authorities in jurisdictions that have asserted a compelling interest in regulating pregnancy.
Re: (Score:2)
> And the app should respect your privacy
I agree with the principle, but in 2025 in the U.S. this is insanely naive. The ToS of virtually everything claim that they own every last bit of data you provide in perpetuity and God himself can't do a damned thing about how they use it. I'm not saying it's fair but currently our options appear to be:
1. Self-host
2. Use paper (as you mentioned)
3. Do without
This ruling makes no sense (Score:3)
This is just a cash grab from lawyers trying to leverage a 1967 law meant to prevent eavesdropping on conversations. [1]https://www.americanbar.org/gr... [americanbar.org]
The three-part test in the jury ruling specifically refers to "conversations" being overheard and/or recorded using an electronic device. How is Meta "eavesdropping" on conversations? Flo used Meta's tools to voluntarily send Meta data. They knew what these tools did and how the data was used. The FTC investigated Flo for their practices, not Meta. As per the FTC article:
"In its complaint, the FTC alleges that Flo promised to keep users’ health data private and only use it to provide the app’s services to users. In fact, according to the complaint, Flo disclosed health data from millions of users of its Flo Period & Ovulation Tracker app to third parties that provided marketing and analytics services to the app, including Facebook’s analytics division, Google’s analytics division, Google’s Fabric service, AppsFlyer, and Flurry.
According to the complaint, Flo disclosed sensitive health information, such as the fact of a user’s pregnancy, to third parties in the form of “app events,” which is app data transferred to third parties for various reasons. In addition, Flo did not limit how third parties could use this health data.
Flo did not stop disclosing this sensitive data until its practices were revealed in a news article in February 2019, which prompted hundreds of complaints from the app’s users.
The FTC also alleges that Flo violated the EU-U.S. Privacy Shield and Swiss-U.S. Privacy Shield frameworks, which, among other things, require notice, choice, and protection of personal data transferred to third parties."
[1] https://www.americanbar.org/groups/business_law/resources/business-law-today/2024-august/californias-invasion-privacy-act/
Re: (Score:2)
Or Facebook(and all advertisers) need to get out of hoovering up data from anywhere they can... arguing that Meta isn't really eavesdropping because they record data from too many places to notice is a weak argument.
Re: (Score:2)
> Or Facebook(and all advertisers) need to get out of hoovering up data from anywhere they can... arguing that Meta isn't really eavesdropping because they record data from too many places to notice is a weak argument.
Meta didn't secretly hack into Flo and start collecting data or acquire this through some kind of tracking tags. Flo sent it to them intentionally. Regardless it strains credulity to think the California legislators in 1967 intended to write a law that applies to this situation when the internet wasn't even commercialized until 1995 and lawyers didn't give this theory a shot for another 30 years.
Too many creeps here (Score:2)
So, someone wants to use a app to track stuff. Right now, scanning that and selling it to others by the company can lead to JAIL TIME for women under utterly unConstitutional state laws, written and rammed through by men in the party whose members a) support rape; b) support pedophila (release the Epstrain files?), and c) *are* rapists and pedophiles (see how many of them have just been arrested this year alone).
EULA my ass. It's a take-it-or-leave-it, and take it means they own you.
API writers fault? (Score:2)
Shouldn't it be Flo's fault for mis-using the API rather than Facebook's fault for just writing a general purpose API?
Or was Facebook untruthful in telling Flo how the data would be used?
Why (Score:2)
Why do people feed all this info into these âappsâ(TM)?
is it really because what zucker famously said, /is/ actually true?
Remember the old days when people were told not to share personal information online, even your name, . Now people are seemingly sharing some of their most intimate details and wondering, no, finding out why actually thatâ(TM)s a bad idea?
Re:Why (Score:5, Informative)
> We live in an era where “positivity” messages turned into feminism supporting and representing sex work.
Dude, you need to get your head examined. Sex work has always happened and will always be happening. Making it illegal is simply harm amplification and as such, directly evil.
Re:Why (Score:4, Interesting)
Quite a delusional post to me. I have grown up to working parents, and with one exception, all my female relatives are working, if in working age. No one is a trad wife, and everyone of them refuses the idea of being one. Why do you think of them being victims (and of whom)?
Re: (Score:3)
> Quite a delusional post to me. I have grown up to working parents, and with one exception, all my female relatives are working, if in working age. No one is a trad wife, and everyone of them refuses the idea of being one. Why do you think of them being victims (and of whom)?
It is the problem with the victim narrative. It is very difficult to let go of it. I've seen some of my relatives using some indignities Roman Empire wives suffered to keep up the meme that they are strong and independent, but must remember how something happened over 2000 years ago, so are still victimized today.
Seriously, they make "The View" look like a Trump rally.
Re: (Score:2)
> Quite a delusional post to me. I have grown up to working parents, and with one exception, all my female relatives are working, if in working age. No one is a trad wife, and everyone of them refuses the idea of being one. Why do you think of them being victims (and of whom)?
A single perspective, does not validate the statistics. Clearly. We changed marriage laws to allow same-sex marriages, and what was the end result? Lesbians now lead the divorce rate. Gee, how incredibly predictable. (Go figure gay men represent the lowest divorce rate now. Not even the previous status quo can compete.)
You can brag about boss bitches until Forbes sponsors you. Now tell me how happy they are. As they start waking up to the brutal reality of a demanding career and the stress that men ha
Re: (Score:3)
> And my point was more centered around what has in fact changed with modern feminism. There are no more virtuous traits being sold with modern feminism today. The concept of being a trad(itional) wife has become one full of disgust for a feminist who also dodges accountability better than anything. Until she can’t. Then she becomes a victim.
> The delusions need to end. As history has already proven. Men are certainly waking up to it.
There is a problem with the victim narrative. The victim narrative utterly hates relinquishing its grip. So eventually it becomes a tool for domination. The so called tyranny of the weak.
And today the demand for no woman ever suffering any indignity or crime forever has become the new rallying cry "Until it is no man, it is all men." People need to google it.
The problem is that aside from being an impossible goal, and completely ignoring that women also commit crimes it is nothing but a socially approved
So the problem with the trad wife thing (Score:2)
Is that unless you're forcing women into it by doing stuff like not letting them have bank accounts or jobs then you're going to have a tough time finding a lot of women that want to do it.
I get that there is a problem here. There's a gap between what women want and what men are.
Also has a lefty I can tell you that my side has the stupidest fucking answers imaginable. You will typically get guys and gals from my side just telling you to go to the gym and get a PhD if you can't get a girlfriend. We a
Re: (Score:2)
One component of the problem is how much time we spend isolated, in front of screens. Going to the park, the or leisure area after school used to help. My proposal would be to set a minimum age for social networks and applications to 18 y.o.
Re:Why (Score:5, Interesting)
I hate how the conversation always revolves around either the American Model - criminalizing sex work - or the Dutch model, decriminalizing everything - and the Nordic Model is entirely left out of the picture (asymmetric criminalization - selling is perfectly legal but buying is illegal).
The sex work "industry" is [1]deeply problematic [telegraph.co.uk] in a way that other industries are not. I really recommend reading the above article. Despite the claimed benefits of full legalization in Germany:
* The law's primary goal was to treat prostitution as a regular job, allowing sex workers to get employment contracts, health insurance, and pensions. None of this happens at any meaningful scale. They still avoid formal contracts, to save on social security contributions and reduce regulatory attention.
* The sex industry exploded and the price collapsed. Legalization triggered "unstoppable growth" and led to the rise of "mega-brothels," "flat-rate" establishments, and even outdoor "sex boxes", alongside a massive influx of foreign sex workers, with one punter describing Germany as the "Aldi for prostitutes."
* And with that, came a large increase in human trafficking to meet the demand. Germany and the Netherlands have been ranked among the five worst black spots for trafficking in Europe.
* The law makes it easier to open a brothel in Germany than a chip shop. Because prostitutes are typically considered self-employed individuals renting rooms, brothel owners have no real accountability for their welfare. This legal gray area allows owners to distance themselves from exploitation, with one stating, "That's not my business" when asked if the women in his club work voluntarily.
* The proliferation of the sex industry has negatively impacted cities where it's centred. Saarbrücken's mayor for example notes that the problem has become intolerable, with endless solicitation in public places, used condoms littering streets, and the city's reputation changing from a culinary destination to one known for prostitution.
* The exploitation of sex workers continues, in little-changed forms. The term "pimp" has been replaced by "the man," but the dynamic of control and financial exploitation persists. Women continue to find themselves tricked with false promises or pressured into the industry, only to find themselves trapped.
* Sex workers are left in a precarious and dangerous position. Due to the huge increase in competition, there's huge pressure on sex workers to consent to things they don't want to consent to.
Just a random example from the article
> "She tells me about a 17-year-old Russian - let’s call her Klara – whose father had fallen ill. The family was getting desperate for money so when Klara saw a newspaper advert offering temporary work as a prostitute in Germany, “she thought, ‘it will be awful but for three months I can bear it.’ And then she was raped by several men the night she arrived to “get her ready” for prostitution. They took her passport. There was another girl there who wouldn’t do something a customer wanted and they broke a bottle, a glass bottle, and raped her with that. She was cut inside. It was shown to all the others.” Klara was trapped there for four years."
Or as the head of the megabrothel "Paradise" put it, at the end of the article:
> Would he be happy for either of his two daughters to work at Paradise, the interviewer asks. Rudloff turns puce. “Unthinkable, unthinkable,” he says. “The question alone is brutal. I don’t mean to offend the prostitutes but I try to raise my children so that they have professional opportunities. Most prostitutes don’t have those options. That’s why they’re doing that job." He pauses and looks away.
> “Unimaginable”, he repeats. “I don’t even want to think about
[2]Read the rest of this comment...
[1] https://s.telegraph.co.uk/graphics/projects/welcome-to-paradise/
[2] https://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=23761700&cid=65569654
Re:Why (Score:5, Insightful)
I'd also add two things from a personal perspective.
One, just short and straightforward: I don't think it's healthy for a society to normalize viewing women as objects to be bought and sold.
Two, and more personally: back when I lived in the states, my then-spouse once met someone at the local Unitarian church who had just arrived in town who didn't have a place to stay. We talked and decided to invite her to stay in our spare room rent-free. I had however never seen a person in my life so "broken". She literally would timidly ask for permission to go to the bathroom every time, and things like that; it took us a long time to break her of the habit. As we got to know her better, it became clear that she had been groomed into sex work in Chicago since she was a teen from a troubled household, and was trying to flee that life. Months later, she ultimately admitted to us that she just automatically presumed that when we offered her the spare room, that she would be having to pay us in sex, and was then confused when we never propositioned her. The concept of charity was entirely absent from her lexicon.
She eventually got a boyfriend (quite a nice guy, as far as we could tell), moved out, etc etc but she continued to struggle with - and I'm not a psychologist, but it sure looked like what I'd call PTSD. And eventually one day we got the news from him that she had run off, and her body was later found by the police, having committed suicide.
So yeah, my take on the sex work "industry" isn't so hot. I don't think in any way it should be "normalized". But even worse is criminalizing the very people you're wanting to protect.
Re: (Score:3)
This highlights the difference between consensual sex work and "trafficking".
Re: (Score:1)
Sex work has always happened, but the acceptance at a modern industrial scale not so nothing wrong with wanting to regulate an industry. Saying making sex work illegal harms sex workers is paradoxical, sex work harms sex workers and sex work harms punters. Lots of studies and research we conveniently downplay in such discussions proves that, not that that wasn’t obvious. The solution here isn’t a black making it illegal or white normalising it. It should be like smoking, shunned because of the
Re: (Score:2)
> We live in an era where “positivity” messages turned into feminism supporting and representing sex work. It’s now acceptable to be a whore and brag about it online. Will the modern feminist change her ways, even in the face of crushing failure? Nope. They’re going to double down on that arrogance because of zero accountability. Feminism will demand we make prostitution legal soon instead of realizing why this new feminist trait is quite fucked. Mandatory DNA testing? Best make sure mandatory STD testing comes first. I’d imagine the pool is quickly becoming infected beyond compare.
Why do you even care? You act like you're on the market but you're clearly a boomer.
Re: (Score:2)
> Mandatory DNA testing? Best make sure mandatory STD testing comes first. I’d imagine the pool is quickly becoming infected beyond compare.
Given the 80/20 rule that allows a small group of pretty boys to get laid regularly, with a large number of women, there is a serious possibility of a real epidemic of STDs - probably already is.
Trigger alert! I honest to goodness watched a video from the Whatever podcast, a beautiful young lady telling of how when she was flown out to Dubai, she contracted several infections because of (might want to stop reading here if you gross out easily) eating her excrement as part of a sex action. Multiple times.
Re: (Score:2)
Is the parent a chatbot post? That post is either a schizophrenic's word salad or an AI.
Re: (Score:2)
We live in an era where âoepositivityâ messages turned into feminism supporting and representing sex work. Itâ(TM)s now acceptable to be a whore and brag about it online.
If men weren't so weak, this wouldn't be an issue, now would it? Men are the ones keeping this alive.
Re: (Score:2)
> Why do people feed all this info into these âappsâ(TM)?
> is it really because what zucker famously said, /is/ actually true?
> Remember the old days when people were told not to share personal information online, even your name, . Now people are seemingly sharing some of their most intimate details and wondering, no, finding out why actually thatâ(TM)s a bad idea?
And some groups appear to be more affected. Just like Tea - ostensibly an online "dating safety" app - became an attempted reboot of #metoo then was hacked and exposed way too much personal information about its users. Names, addresses, and dishing on men who they maybe just broke up with them, and need to be punished.
Ladies, please pump the brakes on the oversharing. Go outside, make some actual friends if you want to commiserate. And not at a club, where "The View" is where they get their news. And t