Computer Science Major Needs a Rebrand, Android Head Says (businessinsider.com)
- Reference: 0178410048
- News link: https://news.slashdot.org/story/25/07/18/1429222/computer-science-major-needs-a-rebrand-android-head-says
- Source link: https://www.businessinsider.com/google-head-android-computer-science-major-rebrand-2025-7
Samat, who studied computer science at UC San Diego, views the field differently: "It's definitely not learning to code. It is the science, in my opinion, of solving problems." The major should focus on breaking down problems, learning system design, and collaboration rather than just coding skills, Samat said.
[1] https://www.businessinsider.com/google-head-android-computer-science-major-rebrand-2025-7
"you don't need a degree." (Score:3, Funny)
If I don't have one, people like you won't hire me though.
Accredited online university, can challenge class (Score:2)
> If I don't have one, people like you won't hire me though.
You need certain knowledge. A degree is one convenient way to get such knowledge. And for some, it's necessary. Being self taught is certainly doable, but few on the self taught path will do a comprehensive study of topics similar to a CS program. It happens, but it is extremely rare for a person to have such personal discipline and curiosity. Far more often the self taught will have gaps. They will pass on topics they believe, sometimes wrongly, to be unimportant. This is sort of the foundation for the pre
Re: (Score:2)
> You need certain knowledge.
Basically, this.
Degrees aren't magic. Someone without a degree can know a hell of a lot more about a subject than someone who does have one - even for advanced subjects.
What a degree is though, is some level of proof to the rest of the world that the person has at least some baseline level of knowledge. If I'm hiring a programmer: 1 has a Computer Science degree and one doesn't. The guy without the degree MIGHT be significantly better, but I'm taking more of a risk because he also might be clueless. Now
yes (Score:2)
100% agree. In fact most people don't need a degree to be good coders. I learned more the first year out of school than I did getting my CS degree. The best coders I have worked with don't have a degree.
Re: (Score:2)
But you need a degree to be a good developer.
You might write the most elegant implementation of Bubblesort ever as good coder. But only a good developer who studied things knows why you shouldn't use Bubblesort
Maybe return CS to pre Internet Boom ways (Score:2)
> ... arguing that the discipline is widely misunderstood as simply learning to code ... That's true to a degree. I've often argued that High School Computer Science is a misnomer, outside of perhaps an AP class. But the regular class is best described as a Computer Programming shop class. Pretty much like wood shop, auto shop, etc. Just something for students to try out and see if they have any interest or curiosity. If so, then they can take the optional advanced shop classes in the area of interest.
>
> But what computer science really needs is a return to the type of students who possess a genuine interest and curiosity in the field. Lets maintain the academic rigor and advanced math classes, the weeding out CS classes, etc to deter those student who lack the interest and curiosity but who were told its a good career path by a parent or guidance counselor. Kind of a return to pre-Internet boom ways. A return to the type of students that could, I don't know, build an internet? Not the type of student, graduate actually, that will slap 37 layers of dubious libraries together to accomplish a simple task.
Re: (Score:2)
And now with correct formatting. :-)
> ... arguing that the discipline is widely misunderstood as simply learning to code ...
That's true to a degree. I've often argued that High School Computer Science is a misnomer, outside of perhaps an AP class. But the regular class is best described as a Computer Programming shop class. Pretty much like wood shop, auto shop, etc. Just something for students to try out and see if they have any interest or curiosity. If so, then they can take the optional advanced shop classes in the area of interest.
But what computer science really needs is a return to
Re: Maybe return CS to pre Internet Boom ways (Score:1)
i wonder if my wife has this issue she is good at what she does and has a well paying lower rung position; often tasked with refactors and updates; used to do more testing tasks; but she doesnt actually seem to enjoy programming and does zero coding outside of work; no little side project or game or anything; and i just feel its unusual because every programmer i ever met before her was into nerdy linux stuff or game modding or scripting for some software or ~something~; and me; a bad/non programmer; ive d
Decomposition (Score:1)
Problem-splitting, and solution splitting are good skills, yes. But the choice of division-lines in those splits - and when - become more and more important. Parameterization, DRY, Optimization, can all become a ruthless taskmaster for no important reason, way too early in solutions. Test cases can be drafted too late, too myopically. Documentation and transferrability never even arrive at the table. Decomposition should begin with the Why and What Problem Are We Solving. "To build anything, one mus
Call yourselves "engineers" (Score:2)
Stolen valor for programmers, developers, code monkeys and script kiddies.
Re: (Score:2)
Hey, shitty engineers are still engineers. A bridge that breaks and dumps millions in the Mississippi to drown is still a bridge. Well, it was.
Re: (Score:2)
("Surely not MILLions," I hear you say. Well, it would have been just hundreds, but the hazard signalling system at both ends of the bridge is also broken, and has been even before the bridge broke several years ago.)
Re: (Score:2)
This is adjacent to a good point.
We need actual software engineering, with actual software engineers, who are treated like actual engineers.
Re: Call yourselves "engineers" (Score:2)
What skills does that cover in your opinion?
Re: (Score:2)
> This is adjacent to a good point.
> We need actual software engineering, with actual software engineers, who are treated like actual engineers.
That would require giving said software engineers actual *power* to go with their now-crushing *responsibilities*
Including (and especially) the power to say *no* to management's fantastical (and usually self-contradictory) demands.
Re: (Score:2)
In some states there's apparently laws against using the title of "engineer" if not licensed by the state as an engineer. Didn't Microsoft retire all certifications that had "engineer" in the name? Preferring to use words like developer, administrator, analyst, or expert instead?
I believe what they want is "software engineering" (Score:2)
I've heard of how computer science programs do a poor job of training software developers for decades. The solution I've seen in this is the creation of software engineering programs. Such programs are often treated as a kind of subset of a computer science program or a computer engineering program. Computer engineering is often a poor path to take to be a software developer as the program is focused on hardware than software. There's a lot of overlap in computer engineering and software engineering but
Re: I believe what they want is "software engineer (Score:2)
"good coding" was in service to concepts like bug fixing, feature enhancement, transferrability or documentation. What if all that was tossed, as the code was no longer even read? Just results-oriented output, checked against other solution paths? It may be that foundational work continues while LLM's generate the software that nobody reads directly, just like we don't check the solder joints on the parts, we exoect them to work and review only the results. "Coding" might be a narrower band of training
Tech / IT really needs the TRADES SYSTEM! (Score:2)
Tech / IT really needs the TRADES SYSTEM and not high theory loaded college
Re: Tech / IT really needs the TRADES SYSTEM! (Score:2)
Which aspect? Hardware drivers? OS schedulers? Language designers? Shader code? I think you might be underestimating the actual scope of what digital machines cover. From examples like SCADA to FPGA to Kernal Routine to Office macro to Game Engine - computer science has an incredibly large discipline space. Think of the science as so young that we're jumping from wheelbarrow to Cat 798 each decade. A decade from now perhaps we'll simply be schooling LLM's on the standards of your personal project, n
Of course (Score:2)
Leave it to a CEO to frame this as a marketing problem instead of a skills and competency problem.
It's in the name (Score:2)
Computer "Science". If more people understood the word, they wouldn't think they are just programmers.
Engineering is applied physics (Score:2)
Computer science is applied discrete mathematics.
Re: (Score:2)
> Computer science is applied discrete mathematics.
It is, but that's because it's really "Software Science" . If labels were correct, "Computer Science" would be about the structure of a computer: interfaces, caches, distributed processing, and so on.
haha Google Android head is wrong (Score:1)
Computer science is the study of computers and computing as well as their theoretical and practical applications. -- Britanica
Way bigger field than just solving problems (for money I bet he's thinking). It even includes theories on what problems are solvable at all by various types of computers.
Re: (Score:2)
Just because Bitanica gets it right, doesn't mean the broader world understands it.
His complaint is that too many people think of it as a 'degree to get coding' and it's more than that. You seem to agree with that, though maybe room to quibble over the nuance of what more it is or how it should be described.
Shouldn't have gotten rid of calculus (Score:2)
They shouldn't have gotten rid of calculus as a requirement.
If you want to learn to code, go to a boot camp. It's only 8 months. College is about learning to think.
Re: (Score:2)
> They shouldn't have gotten rid of calculus as a requirement.
Who is they? UC-SD requires Math 20, a calculus series is the pathway for Science, Technology, Engineering, and Mathematics majors.
Re: (Score:2)
I hope they didn't as I think it was useful. In depth algorithm classes were harder imho than calculus, so having the math requirement up front would help avoid having people get a couple of years in and realize they can't do the math.
Weeding out is one of the intended roles (Score:2)
> I hope they didn't as I think it was useful. In depth algorithm classes were harder imho than calculus, so having the math requirement up front would help avoid having people get a couple of years in and realize they can't do the math.
Weeding out is one of the intended roles of Freshman Calculus. The correlation between successfully completing Freshman Calculus and various CS classes heavy on theory and/or math is high. Second year math, Differential Equations is more to give the graduate options. Allowing them to apply for those rare software jobs that require a mathematical literacy beyond HS level. Linear Algebra more of a genuine prerequisite for some CS classes.
Re: (Score:2)
Who did that? Many years ago, I had to get a math minor (which I ended up with a second major) to get my computer science degree. Looking at my school's current requirements, they don't have quite as much math required, but it still has all the calculus, linear algebra, and probability/statistics (with a note that you can add one more math class to fulfill the technical elective in CS and also get a math minor).
Advanced math and sciences give you options (Score:2)
> They shouldn't have gotten rid of calculus as a requirement.
Besides weeding out the weak, advanced math and science classes give the graduate options. Sure, most software development is using HS math, maybe even only elementary school. :-) But occasionally there is a job that requires a certain "literacy" regarding advanced math or a branch of science. A 4-year Computer Science curriculum is designed to make such jobs an option. If you only want the HS math option go to your Community College and get a 2-year Software Development degree or certification. Don't dumb