Before Air India Boeing 787 Crash, Fuel Switches Were Cut Off, Preliminary Report Says (npr.org)
- Reference: 0178358838
- News link: https://tech.slashdot.org/story/25/07/12/0326234/before-air-india-boeing-787-crash-fuel-switches-were-cut-off-preliminary-report-says
- Source link: https://www.npr.org/2025/07/11/nx-s1-5465063/air-india-boeing-787-crash-report
> A pair of switches that control the fuel supply to the engines were set to "cutoff" moments before the crash of Air India Flight 171, according to a [3]preliminary report from India's Air Accident Investigation Bureau released early Saturday in India... Indian investigators determined the jet was properly configured and lifted off normally. But three seconds after takeoff, the engines' fuel switches were cut off. It's not clear why.
>
> According to the report, data from the flight recorders show that the two fuel control switches were switched from the "run" position to "cutoff" shortly after takeoff. In the cockpit voice recording, one of the pilots can be heard asking the other "why did he cutoff," the report says, while "the other pilot responded that he did not do so." Moments later, the report says, the fuel switches were returned to the "run" position. But by then, the plane had begun to lose thrust and altitude. Both the engines appeared to relight, according to investigators, but only one of them was able to begin generating thrust.
>
> The report does not draw any further conclusions about why the switches were flipped, but it does suggest that investigators are focused on the actions of the plane's pilots. The report does not present any evidence of mechanical failures or of a possible bird strike, which could have incapacitated both engines at the same time.
[1] https://www.slashdot.org/~hcs_%24reboot
[2] https://www.npr.org/2025/07/11/nx-s1-5465063/air-india-boeing-787-crash-report
[3] https://aaib.gov.in/What's%20New%20Assets/Preliminary%20Report%20VT-ANB.pdf
Regulations written in blood (Score:2)
Someone probably accidentally poked a wrong set of switches, or they got caught in clothing or muscle memory of pilot was bad.
Unless it was clear unqualified pilot case or something similar, we'll probably get a new training regulation how to avoid this, or if this was a problem with switches themselves some kind of a fix (maybe a switch cover or similar) that will be deployed.
Re: (Score:2)
> Unless it was clear unqualified pilot case or something similar, we'll probably get a new training regulation how to avoid this, .
You could read the 15 page report which lists qualifications of both pilots:
First pilot: 56, Male, 15638 total flying hours, 8596 hours on type (787)
Second pilot: 32 Male, 3403 total flying hours, 1128 hours on type
The chief pilot (PIC) had over 8500 hours on this model, the second pilot has considerably less but had over 1100 hours.
> or if this was a problem with switches themselves some kind of a fix (maybe a switch cover or similar) that will be deployed.
The report also noted [1]SAIB NM-18-33 [europa.eu] regarding problems with some of these switches on Boeing planes notably some were installed with a locking feature disabled.
[1] https://ad.easa.europa.eu/blob/NM-18-33.pdf/SIB_NM-18-33_1
Why would it be possible (Score:3)
to easily switch off fuel supply of a running engine?
It is an edge case and should be the equivalent of a WordPerfect command.
Re: (Score:3)
Yes and no. The switch is a [1]up/down switch [youtube.com] located under the throttle controls; however, to prevent accidental flipping, they should have a locking feature that requires the pilot to pull on them first then move them. But as the FAA noted in a [2]2018 bulletin [europa.eu] some of them were installed with the locking feature disabled. Operators should have inspected and replaced any faulty switches in the last 7 years.
[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33hG9-BCJVQ
[2] https://ad.easa.europa.eu/blob/NM-18-33.pdf/SIB_NM-18-33_1
Some other notes (Score:5, Informative)
I submitted this story as well but was a little late. Some other findings of the [1]report. [aaib.gov.in]
The report acknowledges that the FAA issued a Special Airworthiness Information Bulletin (SAIB) on December 2018 regarding fuel switches on Boeing planes. [2]SAIB NM-18-33 [europa.eu] advised operators of Boeing planes to inspect their fuel switches as some had been installed with the locking feature disabled. The locking feature was intended to prevent accidentally flipping as it required the pilot to lift up the switch (pull on it) then flip it.. The bulletin advises operators to replace switches if faulty. The report does not detail if Air India inspected the switches on this plane.
Last major maintenance on the plane occurred at 38504 hours with the plane recording 41868 hours at the time of the crash. The next scheduled maintenance was due in December 2025. The landing gear controls was still in the down position as the pilots had not yet retracted them. The Ram Air Turbine deployed and started automatically.
Summarized timeline of events: (UTC)
08:07:33 Take-off clearance issued
08:08:33 V1 (decision speed) at 153 knots reached
08:08:35 VR (rotational/liftoff speed) at 155 knots reached
08:08:39 Plane/sensors switch to Air mode (liftoff)
08:08:42 Max speed 180 knots
08:08:42 Engine 1 fuel switch flips to CUTOFF
08:08:43 Engine 2 fuel switch flips to CUTOFF
(unknown timestamp) Pilot asks other pilot about the switches being flipped
08:08:52 Engine 1 fuel switch flipped back to RUN
08:08:56 Engine 2 fuel switch flipped back to RUN
08:09:05 Pilots transmit "MAYDAY MAYDAY MAYDAY"
08:09:11 black box recordings stop
[1] https://aaib.gov.in/What's%20New%20Assets/Preliminary%20Report%20VT-ANB.pdf
[2] https://ad.easa.europa.eu/blob/NM-18-33.pdf/SIB_NM-18-33_1
Re: (Score:2)
Sounds about right for Boeing. Let's take a look at some internal emails from that time period. [1]https://www.theguardian.com/bu... [theguardian.com]
[1] https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/jan/10/737-max-scandal-the-internal-boeing-messages-and-emails
Re: (Score:2)
It is incredibly unlikely that the switches had this problem.
The report states 'Both fuel control switch were found in the “RUN” position.' This is right above a picture of the fuel switches recovered from the crash. It is insanely unlikely the investigators would have decided not to check the switches, or fail to mention a problem they found with them.
Re: (Score:2)
What I saw reported was that Air India did not inspect the switches, since it was not mandatory.
Sorry, Ranjit... (Score:2)
...I was just trying to save fuel. I mean, we were in the air already, I thought we could coast for a bit.
Murder / Suicide (Score:2)
One of the pilots killed everyone. He even lied about it just before he died. It would be very difficult to bump this switch. It has a metal guard around it and it has to be pushed up before it can be slid over. You cant do it by accident. The take off is the most dangerous period of flight. The fuel was cut off just seconds after take off. Even after the fuel flow as restored, there was not enough time for the engines to relight and start producing power again. In this case, both engines restarted,
Re: (Score:3)
Blah blah blah backseat pilot. Been covered elsewhere that the switches were installed without the protections on some planes, and there doesn't seem to be a record of Air India making the specified update to correct it.
Not that you might not be wrong, but you shouldn't be so certain.
Why in the hell would the pilot lie about his actions at that moment?
Re: (Score:2)
At this time, in the preliminary report, the IAAIB does not know exactly why the switches were flipped. Your assignment of murder/suicide blame is unwarranted. The report suggests that the switches could have been accidentally flipped as they noted the FAA's [1]SAIB NM-18-33 [europa.eu] where some of these switches had been installed with a safety feature disabled. The FAA bulletin advises operators to inspect and replace any faulty switches. It is not known at this time if Air India did either.
[1] https://ad.easa.europa.eu/blob/NM-18-33.pdf/SIB_NM-18-33_1
Rick & Morty: Morty's Mind Blowers (Score:1)
Did I just hear 3 distinct light switch clicks? I feel like the three sounds I heard could be explained by an initial erroneous flipping of the switch on the right followed by a hasty corrective flipping of the requested switch then a third shameful unflipping of the initially flipped switch. Is my assessment accurate?
A more freaky world than it used to be (Score:2)
When I was a kid it was possible for non-passengers to visit passengers on board before the flight was closed for takeoff. I remember doing that with my aunt and uncle. There was basically no security.
Next we started getting highjackings on a regular basis. Security was implemented, but non-passengers could go onto the concourse. My dad used to pick me up at the gate back then when i would fly in to visit.
Eventually only passengers could be on the concourse. After 9/11 everyone was freaked out.
Tier 2 time. (Score:2, Interesting)
Hopefully the NTSB's tier 2 people are ready; since they did in fact try turning it off and turning it on again and there's still more to the situation.
Re: (Score:2)
I don't know much about planes, but this isn't a switch that you can accidentally bump while trying to reach something else, is it? Or, if you propped a good luck charm on top of the console, could it fall and move these switches?
Re: (Score:3)
From what I understand, it is not easy to toggle those switches accidentally, especially both of them at the same time. They have a metal bar on either side and to move the switch, you can't just push it into the other position... you have to lift it up and then move it; there's a spring-loaded locking mechanism that enforces this.
So it was either deliberate or a massive, massive fuckup by one or both of the pilots.
Re: (Score:2)
Another post here mentions an FAA bulletin that says to inspect, and replace if necessary, the fuel switches. Not sure if investigators have been able to determine the condition of the switches, and if the toggle locks were working, but that might be telling.
That said, we humans develop "muscle memory", and if you're used to pulling on a toggle bat handle then flipping it, that motion becomes subconscious.
I'm not sure where they are on a 787, but maybe they need to be moved to a less accessible location, an
Re: (Score:2)
Watch this video: [1]https://www.youtube.com/watch?... [youtube.com]
[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wA_UZeHZwSw
Re: (Score:2)
> Hopefully the NTSB's tier 2 people are ready; since they did in fact try turning it off and turning it on again and there's still more to the situation.
I don't think the NTSB will be handling this investigate since it happened outside their jurisdiction. They'll be very interested in the investigation results I'm sure.
Re: (Score:3)
The NTSB is often brought in to any investigation involving a US made plane.
Re: (Score:2)
> I don't think the NTSB will be handling this investigate since it happened outside their jurisdiction. They'll be very interested in the investigation results I'm sure.
The NTSB will not lead the investigation but will (and do) provide assistance. The main reason is that since the plane was made by Boeing with GE engines and if at least one American was on board, the NTSB (and airplane safety agencies from other countries) will send investigators. Also the NTSB generally has the most experience with airplane crash investigations than any other national agency.
Re: (Score:2)
>> Hopefully the NTSB's tier 2 people are ready; since they did in fact try turning it off and turning it on again and there's still more to the situation.
> I don't think the NTSB will be handling this investigate since it happened outside their jurisdiction. They'll be very interested in the investigation results I'm sure.
From TFA:
> The Initial notification of the accident as per ICAO Annex 13 was sent to National
> Transportation Safety Board (NTSB), USA which represented the State of Design &
> Manufacture. As per the information notified to AAIB, the fatalities amongst passengers also
> included citizens from United Kingdom, Portugal and Canada. The initial notification of the
> accident as per ICAO Annex 13 was also sent the AAIB-UK, GPIAAF-Portugal and
> Transportation Safety Board (TSB)-Canada which represented the other States whose
> citizens suffered fatalities in the accident.
> NTSB, USA appointed an Accredited Representative and Technical Advisers from Boeing,
> GE and the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) to assist in this Investigation. A team led
> by the NTSB Accredited Representative comprising of representatives from Boeing, GE and
> FAA arrived at Ahmedabad on 15.06.2025 and participated in the Investigation. A team of
> officials from AAIB, UK also arrived at Ahmedabad and visited the site with DG, AAIB.
Re: (Score:2)
> Hopefully the NTSB's tier 2 people are ready; since they did in fact try turning it off and turning it on again and there's still more to the situation.
The report noted NTSB and FAA investigators assisted as well as representatives of Boeing and GE being present during the investigation.
Re: Tier 2 time. (Score:2)
maverick.
it is not the plane
Re: (Score:2)
The pilots did not turn the fuel switches off and on again to try to fix it, you made that up.
What the actual report says is that three seconds after takeoff, the fuel switches were each turned from run to cutoff, one second apart. The engines slowly started losing thrust as the fuel in the lines exhausted. One pilot is heard on the cockpit voice recorder asking the other why did he cutoff, the other claims he didn't. 10 seconds after switching off, the fuel switches were switched back on, 4 seconds apart.