Jamie Dimon's Blunt Message for Europe: 'You're Losing' (cnbc.com)
- Reference: 0178349568
- News link: https://slashdot.org/story/25/07/11/1432259/jamie-dimons-blunt-message-for-europe-youre-losing
- Source link: https://www.cnbc.com/2025/07/11/jamie-dimon-has-a-blunt-message-for-europe-youre-losing.html
> JPMorgan Chase boss Jamie Dimon [1]did not pull his punches when he spoke at Ireland's Department of Foreign Affairs.
>
> "You're losing," he said of European competitiveness with the U.S. and Asia, in comments reported by the Financial Times. "Europe has gone from 90% U.S. GDP to 65% over 10 or 15 years. That's not good."
>
> "We've got this huge, strong market and our companies are big and successful, have huge kinds of scale that are global. You have that, but less and less," Dimon said on Thursday.
[1] https://www.cnbc.com/2025/07/11/jamie-dimon-has-a-blunt-message-for-europe-youre-losing.html
Winning? (Score:5, Insightful)
Maybe Europe has seen America starting to get tired of all the winning it's been doing lately, and decided to pass on the opportunity.
BTW, Dimon is a vicious fuck-witted opportunistic asshole.
Re: (Score:2)
That is my take as well. And Europe does not have a severe, long-term and possibly unrecoverable crash in its near future either.
Re: (Score:2)
Don't kid yourself, when they crash, they will be dragging Europe down with them.
Re: (Score:2)
See Greece and Italy after the US financial crisis
Amplified Boom-Bust (Score:2)
> Don't kid yourself, when they crash, they will be dragging Europe down with them.
Yes, when the US economy tanks it will damage most Western economies as well as others. However, as we saw with the prime mortage crisis, the damage will be much worse in the US. That's the difference between the US and most other western economies: it has an amplified boom-bust cycle. Right now, at the peak of a boom, it's ahead but once it goes bust it will drop much more. Europe and Canada try to dampen the oscillations a lot more.
Re: (Score:2)
> Europe and Canada try to dampen the oscillations a lot more.
And they will succeed, because they know what is coming.
Re: (Score:2)
All I can say is that I really hope we do succeed because the weather out on the horizon is looking very ugly indeed!
Re: (Score:2)
> Europe does not have a severe, long-term and possibly unrecoverable crash in its near future either.
Define "near term." Europe as we know it will not survive its population crash. Socialist programs are among the first become insolvent.
Re: (Score:2)
Or more to the point, Asia is out-competing America and somehow Mr. Dimon has decided to blame this on Europe instead of American competitiveness.
Re: (Score:2)
The cognitive dissonance is strong with this one.
Re:Winning? (Score:5, Interesting)
Mr. Dimon has a net worth of $2.8 billion. You typically do not become that wealthy by being kind and generous.
As for his complaint, when you dig into it a bit, much of the increase in the GDP gap can be attributed to massive growth in the US tech sector.
But now that companies like Alphabet/Google, Apple, Amazon, Meta, and X have grown so large and gained so much influence under the US regulatory system, we're really seeing how ugly they've become. The US is tipping into right-wing authoritarianism and most of those companies are either helping to push the country in that direction or turning a blind eye to it to protect their wealth. And with it, you're seeing an erosion of civil rights, an increase in wealth inequity, a loss of the free press / more propaganda and sanewashing, an increase in health inequity, and much greater levels of government corruption.
So sure, GDP is higher. But at what cost? And what does the future look like for the USA? If things go south, Mr. Dimon can flee with much of his wealth. For much of the rest of the US population, that's not really an option. So maybe we need to look at the bigger picture?
Re: (Score:2)
Who really needs health care anyway? You die when you die, right? As for for food and shelter, I use the hope method and that seems to work out ok.
Re: (Score:2)
> Who really needs health care anyway? You die when you die, right?
Or as Senator Joni Ernst (R-Iowa) said at a town hall meeting in response to constituent complaints about the Medicaid cuts in their/Trump's bill, "We are all going to die." Senator Mitch McConnell (R-Kentucky) followed up later with, "They'll get over it."
What these comments fail to recognize is that while part of the equation is longevity, it's mostly about quality of life -- heath care usually helps with that and health insurance usually helps pay for that.
Re: (Score:2)
> Mr. Dimon has a net worth of $2.8 billion. You typically do not become that wealthy by being kind and generous.
Typically you become that wealthy by having rich parents.
Sure enough, his dad was a stock broker, did well enough to send him to prep school. The contacts and the financial support were all in place before he was born.
I think you are right. Europe may be better off without US style massive GDP gains while the citizens suffer. Also apologies for the UK tanking its GDP with Brexit, I didn't vote for it but it's a pretty damning reflection on our education system.
Re: (Score:1)
You also don't become that wealthy by being wrong a lot.
Re: (Score:1)
Exactly this. What is better, America where much of the population live like compensated slaves who are no more valuable than whether or not they can make someone else richer, or Europe where quality of life is more important than corporate profitability? In the US you can work your entire life but if you get sick you can live under a bridge for all they care.
Re: (Score:2)
European productivity is well behind America, and the gap is widening.
[1]Why Europe's productivity is falling behind [ecipe.org]
European PE ratios are significantly lower than in America, which means that investors, including European investors, expect European companies to grow more slowly.
> BTW, Dimon is a vicious fuck-witted opportunistic asshole.
That doesn't make him wrong.
[1] https://ecipe.org/publications/keeping-up-with-the-us-why-europes-productivity-is-falling-behind/
Oh,but it does... (Score:3)
Not that he stated the facts...
but because it shows he is narrow-minded and missing much more important points...
Do we live to work or work to live?
Is making more billions for him and his budy-billionaires is what really matters?
It just shows that something is terribly wrong with his values and understanding what does it mean to live and understand other people...
Yes, our plutocrats are out plutoing theirs (Score:1)
Yip, most the "winning" in the USA trickles up , while N. Europe has better safety nets & health, better college funding, and more vacation.
So? (Score:5, Insightful)
The more important questions are how are EU wages doing, how is access to healthcare, what is the average lifespan, and more importantly how happy are people? I don’t give a fuck if a bank made an extra few billion.
Re: (Score:3)
> The more important questions are how are EU wages doing, how is access to healthcare, what is the average lifespan, and more importantly how happy are people? I don’t give a fuck if a bank made an extra few billion.
What? You care about quality of life? You care about community? You believe that having the choice to simply "work to live" is better than being forced to "live to work"? What the fuck is wrong with you? /sarc
Re:So? (Score:5, Insightful)
As an American, yes if you count GDP as how much money Billionaires have, then America is Winning!
Re: (Score:1)
All boats are being lifted people and their water isn't rising as fast/much as it is in the US. That's not a good thing and Jamie is right about it. Yes, Europeans live more simply and overall possess maybe a better lifestyle with lower stress, more vacation time, physically closer and spend more time with family/relatives, etc.. But eventually their economies will collapse as their industries are no longer able to compete with the US, India, China.
We have become so wealthy in the first world that there's
Re: (Score:2)
> You see the homes, kitchens, vacations, etc. of people like Alec Baldwin and you realize wow, the finishes might be slightly fancier but in reality it's not fundamentally different -- not to any relevant degree
Here we are saying that most Americans have houses not very different from Alec Baldwin, and yet whenever electric vehicles are mentioned on slashdot, you can just bet comments are going to say "but half of America can't charge at home!"
Which is it? We all live like Alec Baldwin, or we can't even charge electric vehicles at home.
Re: (Score:3)
>> The more important questions are how are EU wages doing, how is access to healthcare, what is the average lifespan, and more importantly how happy are people? I don’t give a fuck if a bank made an extra few billion.
> What? You care about quality of life? You care about community? You believe that having the choice to simply "work to live" is better than being forced to "live to work"? What the fuck is wrong with you? /sarc
This correlation between macroeconomic measures of economic vitality and individual quality of living is an interesting discussion. There's probably some correlation, albeit not necessarily a strong correlation, between the two. Furthermore, income inequality may cause a strong national economy to lead to great lives for the few rich and struggles for the poor masses. Maybe the most interesting question is whether strong macroeconomic numbers are needed for sustainable broad quality of living, or if weak
Re: (Score:1)
Fair point.
The other fair point is how long will those good points last as the Europeans continue to hollow out their economies. If Ursula's goal is to manage a slow collapse back to feudalism she is doing a fine job.
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The collapse to feudalism is happening in places that have given up on democracy and law and consider crowning their kleptocrat-in-chief as king.
Europe is still not there.
Hence it is the new ideological enemy of the part of the former US that keeps barking about how good a race to the bottom is and how Xi-guo and Putinland are great examples of governance.
Re: (Score:2)
Came here to say about the same thing. Cheers.
Re: (Score:2)
> how are EU wages doing
Not so good. Europeans earn about 40% less than Americans, and the gap is growing.
> how is access to healthcare
8% of Americans lack health insurance.
> what is the average lifespan
Average lifespans are mostly determined by demographics, not government policies.
> more importantly how happy are people?
Happiness is strongly correlated with hours of sunlight.
Re: So? (Score:2)
Finland is very sunny?
Re: So? (Score:2)
[1]https://www.visualcapitalist.c... [visualcapitalist.com]
[1] https://www.visualcapitalist.com/visualizing-the-happiest-country-on-every-continent/
Re: (Score:1)
yes, and don't forget: the average time a US dad spends together with is kids is 20 minutes per day. Included meals, watching TV, not to mention 'quality time' together: helping with homework, watching the kid doing sports or theatre, making music together or whatever. Wow, what a nice 'lifestyle', but yes, GREAT GDP!
Didn't know it was a race (Score:2)
I'd think the point of having a strong economy is a point in and of itself. Chasing "best" is a fools race.
Re: (Score:2)
Well, Europe definitely has lost the race to "most super rich people" and the one to "average people struggle" and "many people do not have access to healthcare" as well.
In other words, except to a psychopath economist, Europe is doing just fine.
Re: (Score:1)
Simple: Because you are full of shit and your claims are just lies. Are you a MAGA-cretin?
He needs to tell Trump (Score:1)
because according to Trump America isn't doing that well.
Re: (Score:2)
What, I thought the US was doing "great" and everything was just "excellent" and "beautiful"? Has Trump changed his stance? (Not asking whether Trump had any insights, because that is not going to happen...)
Brexit? (Score:5, Informative)
When I asked Grok for the combined GDP of all European countries (not just EU countries) for 2024, it was over 90% of the U.S. GDP for the same period. When including only EU countries, it was about 66%. So if he's talking about just the EU, then of course their GDP is down due to England leaving it during that time period.
Re: (Score:2)
> grok is musk's personal playtoy that he interferes with so much it is now checking his tweets before offering answers and was recently calling itself mechahitler.
I can't stand Musk anymore, but for a good while Grok's answers were significantly better than the ones from the free version of ChatGPT. I haven't tried ChatGPT in a while, so maybe it improved or maybe other LLMs have surpassed Grok. Regardless, I'm not going to let someone's politics prevent me from using the tool that is currently providing
Re: (Score:2)
> you should if that guy is injecting his personal politics into the fucking tool you are trying to get information out of!
None of the answers I've received have any noticeable signs of being tainted by politics. However, I only ask fairly objective questions.
> and when musk decides to say europe gdp is dropping because too many brown people are soiling the white maidens
At that point, I will purge the last remaining bit of Musk from my life and never look back. Luckily for me, so far none of Grok's response
OK, Jamie... (Score:2)
OK, Jamie. But, I wouldn't go around insulting others. Take a look behind you. You see that huge truck barrelling towards you? The one that's going to race past you and rock your ass as it goes by leaves you in a swirling dust cloud? The one with the windshield banner that says CHINA?
Re: (Score:2)
China does seem to have forward looking policies that will eat America's lunch. They also seem to have a Dictatorship. If America can break its hold from Oligarchs, and re-establish our middle class, then I think the good ol USA will do better.
Hah... (Score:5, Interesting)
The US has gone from 40% of global GDP to just 17%... Maybe the problem is not quite what he thinks it is?
GDP is not a useful measure (Score:5, Interesting)
Healthcare alone is 18% of US GDP. This is simply a reflection of much higher cost of medical services here vs. Europe, where comparable services with, perhaps, better outcomes are closer to 10% of their GDP. So, just that alone is close to a factor of 2.
This applies to plenty of other areas. US prices of products and services are much higher for the same (or comparables) vs. Europe.
As such, GDP does not reflect the reality of quality of life or level of development of these areas.
Re: (Score:1)
healthcare subsidized by the usa or at least it was.
Re: (Score:2)
> US prices of products and services are much higher for the same (or comparables) vs. Europe.
the US has the 2nd highest median equivalised disposable income (losing only to luxembourg) [1]source [wikipedia.org]
the US also has far and away the highest number of billionaires and millionaires.
americans just have more money than europeans (and on average, larger houses, more cars, etc if that sort of thing matters to you).
europeans (those often online at least, that special breed) claim to not care, but the litany of defensive responses suggests otherwise.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median_income
Re: (Score:1)
median equivalised disposable income is not a good representation of the amount of money the population has. The median net worth is a better measure and the US is below many EU countries by that method : [1]https://www.visualcapitalist.c... [visualcapitalist.com] The value of public old age social security benefits is not included in these numbers. I think social security benefits may be more generous in many EU countries than in the US, which further tips the balance.
[1] https://www.visualcapitalist.com/ranked-top-20-countries-by-average-vs-median-wealth/
And by losing (Score:2)
He means that they aren't generating more cash value for him personally.
So are you still wonder why Europe was letting the Russians promote Trump so that our economy and country would collapse due to the general incompetence. That seemed like a really bad idea to me.
Watching the value of the American dollar tank made it pretty clear what's going on, Europe is hoping to position themselves as the default currency. Naturally that means they have to compete with China but if they can keep getting Ameri
Anyone can look rich with a big enough credit card (Score:2)
The US has had the ability to borrow absurd amounts of money. Of course this makes them look rich.
After the Euro became a thing in Greece, the country appeared wildly successful, everyone was clamouring for the high paying government jobs, borrowing like crazy, and "modernizing" by dumping ship building, olive growing, olive processing, etc.
Then the party ended, and they realized it was all a mirage, and not only did they have a debt problem, but that they had not been "investing" in a future.
I truly
Happiness (Score:3)
Most places in Europe are beating the US on the world happiness chart. I call that winning.
Re: (Score:2)
That is a misunderstanding of the USA, you need to view USA as 50 countries bound together, the states are actually run very different from state to state. the USA is more like the EU with a stronger federal government. If you take that and compare the homogeneous states, they will rank very high comparable to the most homogeneous European states. (VT, ME, ND, MT, WA). As the diversity increases so does conflict.
Re: Happiness (Score:2)
Yes we know Americans are usually only happy when they live with people who are like them.
Don't worry EU... (Score:2)
> Europe has gone from 90% U.S. GDP to 65% over 10 or 15 years.
Don't worry about that EU, we're working on fixing this for you.
Well, Jamie (Score:2)
That's because Europe doesn't have the taxpayers subsidizing private industry for decades on end. Or who runs begging to the government to protect them from their own incompetence every other year.
Perhaps if private industry paid their own way, you'd change your tune.
Europe is not losing (Score:2)
You, Jamie Dimon, are losing, because Europe doesn't do what you want it to do.
Europe is under no obligation to play the same game as you do.
Losing what? (Score:2)
A livable cost of living? Subjugation by billionaires? I honestly don't give a flying fuck about capitalism high scores, and neither should the people who are at the top, and the EU seems to have figured out billionaires hoarding wealth are a waste of resources.
Re: (Score:2)
Give a rich person a dollar, and they do stock buybacks, and give a poor person a dollar, and they buy food. We in the USA don't understand this. We seem to worship the Rich. My common sense / bs filter does not understand this.
Re: (Score:2)
Actually a small fraction of the extremely rich do invest in or create things that a corporation wouldn't. But you can never tell which ones will do that, and they are often rather crazy in other ways.
I can't strike a good balance sheet on this thing. SpaceX required a wealthy backer to even get started. And probably Tesla speeded the development of electric cars by at least 5 years, more probably a decade. Those are really valuable contributions. They don't justify worshiping crazy ideas. But without
The EU doesn't want success (Score:2)
Brussels: "Yay, high taxes"
Ireland: "Hey, I know, if we provide a way around those high taxes, we can get money from Americans"
(Ireland rakes in money)
Brussels: "Hey, you can't do that. We're enforcing a minimum tax!"
Americans: "See ya, bye!"
(money goes away)
Macroeconics is not everything (Score:3)
We have the happy people over here. If I need to choose between happiness and money, I'll take happiness any day.
Some countries actually take care of their people. What is it you say? Most of those are in Europe? Gosh.
Besides, the US empire is showing its cracks and its current government is only making things worse. Where are those factories located? Riiiiight. In CHINA . Those factories are things that actually matter. The US economy is mostly made of paper.
How are US foreign relations currently? Ooohhh... not good, you say? I wonder what the current USD value is because of your clown in chief... Not good, I take it.
LOL - what a jerk... (Score:2)
This extra GDP mainly goes to pockets of billionaires and welthy CEOs. No surprise he likes it...
1. If what is Trump is doing is "winning" - sorry, I prefer to be a loser...
2. Europe population is older and declining - calculate it per working age person and the difference is smaller
3. Take into account in Europe we work less, live longer and have more time for family
4. In Europe we have universal healthcare, free education and much healthier food.
Sure - top 10% in the US enjoys much higher standard but th
US GDP ginned up by borrowing and adding to debt (Score:3)
Eurozone debt-to-GDP ration 88%
USA debt-to-GDP ratio 121% set to exceed 125% and continue skyward after recent bill passage
Seems like US is just borrowing our way to higher GDP (via consumption, gov spending, etc) . Soooo many problems with this course of action, at least for those of us who expect to be alive for the next 10 years. I for one am personal-finance spooked about the combined effects of tariffs, Powell being replaced by a presidential sycophant, and the explosion of more debt, raised debt ceiling, interest payments approaching 50% of the budget, etc.
Firing 1000 state department employees, drop kicking PBS, even tariff 'income' none of that rates a percentage point on the budget imbalance. I can see why Musk got pissed off. He took crazy political heat for his (reckless) DOGE...only to see it swamped by a crazy lopsided budget. But honestly, the number of 'smart' people who the president has run off the road is so high there is no excuse for anyone to complain.
What US does is go into debt to buy cryptos &s (Score:2)
.. speculative financial instruments such as AI stocks. No other countries does it as much as the US. Absolute amount of money corrupts absolutely and with its ruling by SCOTUS, it becomes absolute speech, drowning out the rights of the people.
The percentage of gross public debt for the US is at 121% of GDP and rising quickly. For the EU, it has been flat at 82%.
is this the same guy who.... (Score:1)
Is this the same guy who said that all these investments in sustainable energy, EV's and so on are just a waste of money..... What kind of world does he see as best?
No funny here (Score:2)
As expected all too sadly.
Re: You elected Trump (Score:2)
I too post anonymously when I am about to say some shit that would embarrass me
Dimon has less credibility than AC (Score:2)
But you, Mr Dollar Ton, propagated the AC brain fart into visibility and propagated its trollacious Subject. Your comment also seems confusing, almost incoherent, but that's probably the natural result of responding to whatever the ACs mumbled...
The joke I was hoping for? So many possibilities. So little humor on Slashdot these years.
Hey, it's my fault, too. My unfunny thought is "Any complicated system that becomes too fixated on one dimension will implode along that dimension." I dare you to laugh at that
Re: You elected Trump (Score:2)
What exactly is success, now?