India Needs To Turn the Air-Con On (economist.com)
- Reference: 0177857385
- News link: https://news.slashdot.org/story/25/05/29/2011206/india-needs-to-turn-the-air-con-on
- Source link: https://www.economist.com/leaders/2025/05/29/india-needs-to-turn-the-air-con-on
The cooling effect creates a dangerous trade-off: cleaner air would accelerate temperature rises just as the country desperately needs relief from intensifying heat waves. Only one in ten Indian households owns air conditioning, compared to two-thirds in China and four-fifths in Malaysia, despite air-conditioner sales doubling between 2020 and 2024. During heat waves, cooling systems already account for one-fifth of power demand, mostly supplied by coal plants that worsen the pollution problem India must eventually solve.
[1] https://www.economist.com/leaders/2025/05/29/india-needs-to-turn-the-air-con-on
Cheapest solution (Score:3)
Would have been to address this global warming and pollution stuff 40-50 years ago.
For some reason when given the easy way and the hard way, we always go hard.
Re: (Score:2)
50 years ago, schools were teaching children that because of pollution, we were headed for another ice age. I know because I was in school 50 years ago, in a public school. Clearly, they were wrong, but it's hard to use hindsight now, and say we should have done something different back then. It takes a while to build scientific consensus, let alone political consensus.
Re: Cheapest solution (Score:1, Troll)
"Clearly, they were wrong"
Clearly your school was shit, because that was never scientific consensus.
Re: Cheapest solution (Score:2)
Clearly someone scrubbed your brain with bleach.
Try another dose.
Re: (Score:2)
See, if you just take the bleach internally, maybe with like an injection...
Re: (Score:2)
It wasn't just my school. There was widespread uncertainty at the time. [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_cooling#:~:text=While%20neither%20scientists%20nor%20the%20public%20could%20be%20sure%20in%20the%201970s%20whether%20the%20world%20was%20warming%20or%20cooling%2C%20people%20were%20increasingly%20inclined%20to%20believe%20that%20global%20climate%20was%20on%20the%20move%2C%20and%20in%20no%20small%20way
Re: (Score:2)
See episode 23 of season 2 of the TV program "In Search of...":
[1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
While it might not indicate a "scientific consensus" at the time it does mean people in the general public had a concern. Kind of like how today we see in the general public a concern over global warming even though there can be a debate on if there is a "scientific consensus" on the issue today. Albert Einstein was mocked for going against the scientific consensus at the time and when questioned on this he sai
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_Search_of..._(TV_series)#Season_2_(1977%E2%80%931978)
Re: (Score:1)
Well, he DID say he went to a public school.
Re: (Score:3)
Yes. there were multiple proposed models for climate in the 1970's. And lots of poor journalism that relayed incomplete information to the public. So in a sense, nothing has changed.
Science is a continuous process, where we change our opinions as new data comes in. We can only operate on the best data we have available. And if we wait until we are absolutely certain before we act, that's a recipe for disaster.
What we do know, that ExxonMobil's studies in the 1970s on the impact of fossil fuels on climate ch
Re: (Score:2)
> 50 years ago, schools were teaching children that because of pollution, we were headed for another ice age. I know because I was in school 50 years ago, in a public school.
I was also in public school 50 years ago and I have no recollection of ever being told this.
Re: (Score:2)
You mean...wait.....you mean that not all schools taught the same things?!?!?!
No fucking way!!!
Re: (Score:2)
We hit some record colds in the 70s and 80s. The Milankovitch cycles were just beginning to be understood and popularized. There was speculation about the timing of starting a new glacial period in the next few thousand years, and questions about how fast that could occur. Of course the popular press sensationalized that with headline questions about "Have We Started a New Ice Age?".
Yet I remember hearing about global warming due to CO2 in the classrooms as early as the 60s (though it wasn't necessarily
Re: (Score:2)
Yes, that's my point. 50 years ago, there was not the same consensus that we have today. It wouldn't have been possible to persuade politicians to take decisive action against warming at the time. Yes, some were sure, but that's not the same as consensus. For that matter, even today we are having trouble persuading politicians.
Re: (Score:2)
> For some reason when given the easy way and the hard way, we always go hard.
Nah, the easy way was to do nothing and leave all the problem-solving for the future to deal with. Works great, until the future actually arrives, and the bills come due.
Re: Cheapest solution (Score:2)
Except it is not easy to get billions of people to change their habits. Your "easy way" is actually the hard way.
Re: (Score:3)
With industrialized farming and some reduction of the dependence on meat and dairy in the Western, we have the ability to comfortable feed more people than we have today. And today's food problems are a distribution problem, but that problem gets compounded when climate change introduces more frequent crop failures and reduced growth. And it compounds our use of fossil fuel for shipping food to regions that are bound to have shortages.
> India ironically is one of the few large, relatively prosperous countries (Nigeria is another) where population growth continues unabated.
India has gone from 1.90% in 2020 to 0.89% in 2025 population growth. And
Re: no (Score:2)
"With industrialized farming and some reduction of the dependence on meat and dairy in the Western, we have the ability to comfortable feed more people than we have today."
1) not sustainably.
2) they like both meat and dairy in India
Re: (Score:2)
A fatal flaw I notice in the argument of people who want to discount overpopulation as a problem: They assume the amount of people the planet can support is a static figure. It isn't, it's decreasing. The candle is being burned from both ends, at some point the two lines will cross.
It's also not like computer memory where 8 bits will fit, and a 9th won't. Quality of life will degrade heavily well before you hit the limit imposed by food production. It's more like you have an 8-bit register, but if you try
Re: (Score:2)
Sounds good, generally I agree with your points.
Got any solutions that aren't going to get us lynched?
Re: (Score:2)
> A billion people is plenty and at that level, the strain on the planet is low enough that people back then seriously thought it was impossible for a species to go extinct (like God would just conjure up some more elephants if needed).
We hit 1 billion humans in 1805. The last claimed sighting of a Dodo was reported in the hunting records of Isaac Johannes Lamotius in 1688.
Re: no (Score:2)
You're one of them. Why don't you lead by example and show us how to reduce numbers.
Re: (Score:2)
> Even at 2.5 billion people (around 1950) the living standards were much, much higher -- look at how well houses were built back then.
Yes, for white people in the USA and some of europe.
Re: (Score:2)
This looks to me like the saying on how the best time to plant a tree is 20 years ago and the second best time is today.
If we are to address the issue of global warming then the second best time to act is now. It looks to me like so many are asking to wait for solar+storage to save us any day now. Well, I'd rather we plant the seeds on known working solutions today so that in 20 years we aren't wishing people acted 20 years ago because the plan on solar+storage didn't pan out.
Maybe solar+storage will work
Re: (Score:2)
> If people wonder what I mean on what a backup plan looks like then look at studies out of the UK, UN, EU, or any of a number of studies on the issue. Many of these studies will point to solutions other than relying on only renewable energy sources and energy storage as the most viable option.
Could you come out and say what you mean? Right now you're being very vague. I'm guessing some flavor of nuclear, or perhaps geothermal?
Hygeine (Score:2)
No disrespect, but damn they need to implement hygiene standards like everywhere. Like #1 national priority. Start with this simple rule for cooks and anyone involved with food prep: "No food handling without utensils." And no gloves aren't a solution, not after you scratch your ass with gloves on. Did germ theory not make it to India?
Re: (Score:1)
> Did germ theory not make it to India?
It did, but RFK Jr. embargoed it.
Re: (Score:1)
> Did germ theory not make it to India?
Some people are just nasty.
Re: (Score:3)
Wannabe geo-engineers scare me far more than climate change.
Re: climate control (Score:2)
What we need is to nuke the tops of a few volcanoes, so that the world can naturally shield itself in reflective ash.
Insulation (Score:4, Informative)
Indian homes are not usually insulated well or at all and are typically very exposed to elements in key areas with sub par windows and doors. This is why homes quickly heat up again after switching off the AC. Leakage is real. Not just true for Indian but for so many countries in Europe, Asia, Africa, America.
Insulate like you live in Scotland, then no problems
Welcome to the tragedy of Commons (Score:2)
It's not cheap to rebuild all those homes to insulate them but it is pretty cheap to throw a window air conditioner on them. What's your not thinking about is the amount of retrofitting it takes to make those houses well enough insulated to be worth the effort.
Just fixing a bit of leakage isn't going to fix the electricity usage problems. You need things like actual insulated walls and double pane windows and weather stripping that gets replaced on a regular basis.
Remember most people have to rent w
Re: Insulation (Score:1)
Here in Vietnam it's the same. But it goes far beyond "just deciding" to insulate your home, even for a new build. It's impossible to buy supplies at local building suppliers, you have to get them from across the country or even import at great expense. And then if you do get the supplies, none of the local builders will know how to properly use them. I've yet to find a local builders who even knows what double glazing is - I've explained so many times that no, you can't just install two panes of glass, yo
Subsidize combo packages (Score:2)
Solar panels + minisplits + room in room insulation kit. It's all cheap and can be installed cheap when labour is cheap.
frankly (Score:1)
I suspect this same mechanism behind 1st-world warming. We spent the 1970s and early 80s clearing the sky of industrial particulates, and what do you know, suddenly it started warming.
Shades of Ministry for the Future (Score:2)
That book still seems prescient to me. Especially for how we underestimate the scale of change we’re going to experience
or (Score:2)
Or hear me out, they could build underground. Not in flood zones to be fair, but anywhere else.
Underground keeps working when the power is out... Which they already have a problem with.
Re: (Score:2)
Easy peasy!
Re: or (Score:2)
It is in fact easy. People have been doing it for millennia, and we have better tools and techniques now.
Re: (Score:2)
Right now [1]Pakistan is dealing with heat by using solar panels* to power air conditioning. [twib.news] Which a lot of [2]developing countries [unsustaina...gazine.com] are doing.
* [3]Some used. [recyclingi...tional.com]
[1] https://www.twib.news/a-bottom-up-revolution-in-solar-energy/
[2] https://www.unsustainablemagazine.com/solar-power-in-developing-countries/
[3] https://recyclinginternational.com/commodities/electronics-recycling/used-solar-panels-are-powering-the-developing-world/47066/
Re: or (Score:2)
Certainly that's a good idea for the people in India who can afford things, but a whole lot of them live in poverty.
Re: (Score:3)
Can you really dig a house-sized cave for less money, energy, or pollution than you can get some solar panels? Seems dubious.
Re: (Score:3)
That's a good idea until you try to implement it, and realize that for the scale necessary to make a meaningful impact this would be cost prohibitive, technologically improbable and potentially environmentally damaging.
Underground tunneling is actually power intensive, so they would use a lot of power, and thus pollutants, to make it work. It would require extensive engineering to make sure that any structures particularly on the scale to move significant numbers of people underground would be well ven
Re: or (Score:2)
You only need to dig down far enough for one story and you benefit from cooling.
You don't need underground cities or what have you. Just mostly underground buildings.
Re: (Score:2)
Homes in India do not commonly have basements, which would be effectively the same thing. A lot of that is because in a general sense India is quite humid, which creates issues with ventilation and a higher water table in the area, so a basement is more prone to flooding, mold, and water damage. Cities are able to have underground structures, but they generally are engineered for water resistance in say an underground parking garage, but again that adds cost. And India commonly has large family sizes and
Re: (Score:2)
They will probably have to move whole cities, but then, that's a trope in climate fiction because it features heavily in climate statistics. There are many resources available for those who would like to generate maps of all the coastal locations people are likely to have to piss off from in the nearer-than-they-thought future because of storm surges exacerbated by apparently small changes in sea level and the like, so most of us should get used to the idea of a change of venue "just in case".
Re: (Score:2)
> That's a good idea until you try to implement it, and realize that for the scale necessary to make a meaningful impact this would be cost prohibitive, technologically improbable and potentially environmentally damaging.
> Underground tunneling is actually power intensive, so they would use a lot of power, and thus pollutants, to make it work.
And remember that many of these homes need to be multi-story because the cities are so dense. So, the challenges are even greater than simply building a single-level basement.
Let me get this straight (Score:1)
Instead of doing anything about climate change or giving up our enormous SUVs we are instead going to become a subterranean species?
I mean I get that you're not going to do that. It's just those poor people who are going to do that. And certainly nobody among the wealthy is going to look at you as though you aren't one of them and force you into the underground caves right?
Jesus the things people will come up with to avoid having to build walkable cities with clean air... It's like those anarcho cap
Morlock Pride! (Score:2)
When presented with a choice of changing energy sources or moderating use, of course the only rational thing is to begin digging underground nations big enough for hundreds of millions of people.
... I guess you expect that they'll all just order Grubhub?