Spanish Grid Operator Faults Big Power Plants in Blackout Blame Game (ft.com)
- Reference: 0177710303
- News link: https://hardware.slashdot.org/story/25/05/23/1955245/spanish-grid-operator-faults-big-power-plants-in-blackout-blame-game
- Source link: https://www.ft.com/content/756c9efc-da89-4fab-9549-0a426cc07c0f
> Beatriz Corredor, chair of grid operator Red Electrica's parent company, said power plants fell short in controlling the voltage of the electricity system.
>
> However, the heads of Spain's biggest plant owners linked the blackout to a lack of grid investment and insufficient efforts to boost electricity demand. The public blame game over the outage is intensifying as more than three weeks after 60 million people were left without power, Spanish government investigators insisted they needed more time to establish the root cause.
[1] https://www.ft.com/content/756c9efc-da89-4fab-9549-0a426cc07c0f
[2] https://slashdot.org/story/25/04/28/1245258/widespread-power-outage-is-reported-in-spain-france-and-portugal
Spain? (Score:2)
Is that still even a thing?
Synchronous Condensers (Score:3)
From what I can tell, the jury is still out on possible causes for the outage. However, for people pointing out the issues involved in decreasing inertial stability, it is possible to convert older gas and coal fired plant generators into synchronous condensers to maintain inertial stability.
[1]https://spectrum.ieee.org/zomb... [ieee.org]
"Repurposing old power-plant generators is part of a larger comeback story for a technology that seemed doomed with the advent of solid-state controllers in the 1970s. Thyristor-based static VAR compensators (SVCs) quickly conquered the market for dynamic voltage support because they produced VARs more cheaply and efficiently than synchronous condensers.
Their predecessors started making a comeback a decade ago, however, thanks to faster control systems and a growing recognition that spinning machines offered some crucial advantages over electronics. Those pros stem from a spinning rotorâ(TM)s mechanical and electromagnetic inertia, which make the machines more tolerant of grid disturbances.
Severe voltage drops, for example, hobble SVCs, whose reactive power output drops at double the rate of line voltage. In contrast, a synchronous condenserâ(TM)s spinning rotor keeps on pumping out reactive power. It will also generate real power if needed, moderating the drop in AC frequency that would result, say, from shutting down a power plant."
"Speed was a critical factor in the California Independent System Operatorâ(TM)s decision to order a condenser conversion, though in a gas-fired plant instead of a coal plant, following the shuttering in 2012 of the San Onofre nuclear power plant. Without the 2,200-MW plant, located between Los Angeles and San Diego, voltage control weakened all across Southern California. âoeThe potential for rolling blackouts in the L.A. basin was seen as a very high risk,â says Chris Davidson, an electrical solutions business-Âdevelopment director for Siemens, which did the conversion."
[1] https://spectrum.ieee.org/zombie-coal-plants-reanimated-to-stabilize-the-grid
Re: (Score:3)
When you encounter a "just replace everything with solar" smoothbrain it's best to ask them how they will handle reactive power.
You get a reaction, that's for sure.
We can do some cool engineering for workarounds but it's amazing how alluring the One Ring is to some.
Re: (Score:2)
Smart inverters.
Re: (Score:2)
> Smart inverters.
Most inverters are currently grid following. In the future grid forming inverters may negate the need for traditional inertia in existing power grids.
[1]https://www.energy.gov/eere/so... [energy.gov]
However the future is not now, and people who talk about how cheap renewables are rarely factor such things into their equations.
[1] https://www.energy.gov/eere/solar/articles/powering-grid-forming-inverters
Re: (Score:2)
The goalposts don't change. They are measured in volts and Hertz.
Re: (Score:2)
The rent seekers oppose grid forming inverters as it makes their subsidised toys more expensive. The tech is there, obviously, every off grid inverter is grid forming.
Re: (Score:2)
Every off grid inverter is individual. Interesting things happen when you connect them all together.
Re: (Score:2)
Inverters are rated in KVA. Every reactive VA used to stabilize a system is one that cannot be used to move real power (sell electricity). Renewable operators are not willing to do that unless contracts to tie into the grid require it as a condition. And then they will still scream.
Re: (Score:2)
> it is possible to convert older gas and coal fired plant generators into synchronous condensers to maintain inertial stability.
If only there was somebody who would step up and pay for the conversion and subsequent maintenance.
Somebody?
[Sound of crickets]
Now where did all those solar and wind people go suddenly?
Horseshit (Score:3)
Large plants provided inertia to the grid which Spain's glut of renewables failed to do.
Re: (Score:2)
Its all bullshit, the government doesn't want to admit we got hacked by Russia. The other day we also had another major internet blackout for a couple of hours.
Need some Tesla Megapacks (Score:2)
Or some other company's competing product.
Did oversupply cause the blackout? (Score:1)
Did they have so much power in the lines that it shorted itself out, sort of like undemanded electricity build up leads to forest fires in California?
Re: (Score:2)
I don't know about California, but there is such a thing as producing too much energy. If you produce energy, it has to go somewhere. If the grid is pulling, it goes into it: homes, factories, etc. It can also go into energy storage mechanism (which are basically the same thing as just pulling power). If you produce more than the grid requires and can store, you have to dissipate it somewhere. Usually that's heat. And this dissipation capacity isn't limitless either.
Now, that's the extreme cases. Unfortun