Forget 'Snow Sequoia'. Now I'm Cheering for Better Linux Hardware (ofb.biz)
- Reference: 0176938959
- News link: https://linux.slashdot.org/story/25/04/06/0037234/forget-snow-sequoia-now-im-cheering-for-better-linux-hardware
- Source link: https://ofb.biz/safari/article/1304.html
"My recent column on Apple's declining software quality hit a nerve..." he [3]writes in a follow-up . "So why do any of us put up with software that grows increasingly buggy?"
"One word: hardware. And that's where [4]I'd love to see someone help Linux take the next step ."
> Apple knows how to turn out very good quality pieces of hardware and, for many purposes, stands alone. That's been largely true for the last couple of decades. The half-decade of Apple Silicon has cemented this position. At any price point Apple contends, Macs, iPads and iPhones are either without peers or at the top of the market in build quality and processing power... [I]f only there were hardware that was as good and worked together as well as Apple's, jumping ship to Linux would be awfully attractive at this juncture...
>
> For Apple aficionados troubled by the state of MacOS, the modern GNOME desktop on Linux beckons as a more faithful implementation of the ideals of MacOS than current MacOS does. GNOME is painstakingly consistent across its different apps and exudes the minimalist philosophy with which Apple's hardware shines... Now is a perfect moment for a modern Linux push to take that wind back. What it needs, though, is to solve its remaining weakness on the hardware side. One of the giants of electronics manufacturing, tired of being stuck between the Microsoft and Apple ecosystems, would only need to decide to commit the resources necessary to solve the hardware puzzle...
>
> ChromeOS has grown to the extent it does because there is hardware designed for it. Take that and carry it further by making it good hardware utilizing the best Linux software and you'd have something disruptive... Initially, the hardware could be "good enough" for the software, much as Apple's software today is merely "good enough" for the hardware. Iterating from there could lead to a genuine third way of computing.
They titled their piece, "I Want a Better Mac, so I'm Cheering for a Better Linux." (Wondering if Dell or Sony could be the one to supply that good hardware...) "I say this not as someone who thinks Linux will ever dominate the personal computing world, but as someone who wants to see a spark of creativity and push beyond mediocrity in it again.
"Apple needs a real competitor, one alternatives such as GNOME on Linux could actually be, if only the hardware rose to the occasion."
[1] https://www.slashdot.org/~uninet
[2] https://apple.slashdot.org/story/25/03/28/0634230/apple-needs-a-snow-sequoia
[3] https://slashdot.org/submission/17334885/i-want-a-better-mac-so-im-cheering-for-a-better-linux
[4] https://ofb.biz/safari/article/1304.html
Apple has its own brand (Score:4, Informative)
of enshitification just like microsoft has its own brand of enshitification, same with Disney, and Netflix and Google and Meta, all of corporate profiteers enshitify their products for profit, because money and peofits is the only thing they believe in
Re:Apple has its own brand (Score:4, Interesting)
Even Thinkpads aren't quite what they were, although they are still very good.
Speaking of Lenovo, they offer Ubuntu as an option on some models. Top notch hardware, typically better than similar MacBooks.
Re: (Score:3)
Want a good Linux laptop ? Purchase a used 3yo high-end laptop. Put Linux on it (it takes about 10 minutes nowadays). Now you have a good Linux Laptop that cost at most 1/5th of an Apple and will last for another 10 years.
apple needs better ram and storage pricing! (Score:1)
apple needs better ram and storage pricing!
Framework (Score:3)
Framework laptops are the current high point for hardware that does what you need.
1) Repairable
2) 6 Pluggable I/Os so you can have the interfaces you need
I'm typing this on my Framework laptop in PDX airport, running Linux.
Re: Framework (Score:4, Interesting)
I have been eyeing framework laptops for a while but it seems to me that the M4 MacBook air is currently much better performance for much cheaper. The modularity of the framework is a very strong selling point in my book, but it sucks that it's the only selling point.
Getting stuff that works under Linux is not hard (Score:2)
For desktops and servers it is pretty much trivial these days. For laptops, there are ample ressources on the web. All you need to do is actually check.
The problem is not a technological one, it is one of awarenesse. If more people would ask after linux compatibility or preinstalled linux, the whole "problem" would be solved in a year or less. The thing is that people do not ask. My guess would be the only real way to solve this is via anti-trust law that outlaws sales to the general public of general purpo
Its desktop upgradability, not better components (Score:3)
> For desktops and servers it is pretty much trivial these days. For laptops, there are ample ressources on the web. All you need to do is actually check.
(1) Many with rock solid Linux systems went the build-your-own route. Spent a little more than low priced Dell/HP/etc and used better components. Components known to support Linux well. Interestingly, such components were well supported under Windows as well and when dual booted these systems also had rock solid Windows. It's the shitty 3rd party drivers that really f'up Windows. A problem the Apple ecosystem largely avoids.
(2) A random desktop may very well be a little bit laptop like and have some dirt
Re: Getting stuff that works under Linux is not ha (Score:2)
Great sense of humour. Canada here. Last time I was in Bestbuy ... national electronics chain store I said I needed a printer that was Linux compatible ... sales gal, about 20 yo, looked back, blankly, and said "what's linuz?"
Re: (Score:2)
That's more an issue with general computer illiteracy than Linux itself. We now have a couple of generations that grew up with ubiquitous technology but know virtually nothing about it. It's basically magic to them. Magic they rely on of course but still magic. The old cliche of having children doing your tech support no longer seems to be valid (if it ever was).
Gnome a contender? (Score:1)
I guess if you like all your options taken away, being told what you like, how your desktop should behave, and have all your add-ons broken one by one, release after release, as they prevent you from using them to fix their broke ass decisions.
Then I guess you liked MacOS "back in the day".
The killer for me was when they took away the option to disable putting my display to sleep sometime around 2015ish I think. My video card would not resume displaying video without me having to SSH in from another machi
Re: (Score:2)
No idea what you're talking about.
I can't remember GNOME ever not having a configurable timer for display sleep that includes "never". It most certainly does right now.
What I will grant you, is that there were times where they shuffled shit around in their configurator and stuff ended up in bizarre nonsensical places. Perhaps you lost, and couldn't find, the screen sleep timer- and I wouldn't blame you for that at all
Non datacenter hardware. (Score:4, Insightful)
It's probably more accurate to say that Linux could use better consumer hardware.
You basically can't get away with selling a server that lacks first-class Linux support; and, especially with hyperscaler gear, the customer might even insist on a sufficiently open BMC that they can run their own OpenBMC or similar derivative; and switches that will run a linux flavor on top of an ONIE implementation.
It's just that it goes downhill more or less directly inversely with how datacenter-y the hardware is. Workstations are basically just servers that can run on normal domestic wall current and won't destroy your hearing and so have largely server-tier support. Desktops normally promise less; but work almost across the board. Laptops often work; but are more likely to have some weird ACPI issue that causes battery life problems; or some nonsense(software controlled airplane mode or a keyboard backlight or something) that is only supported by the vendor's windows shovelware until someone reverse engineers it. Tables that are computer-derived are more or less laptop level. Tablets that are mobile derived tend to be pretty rough: technically Linux; but usually flayed out of some shit android BSP. Phones are basically for-dedicated-tinkerers-only.
Framework (Score:3)
I'm using a Framework 13, base level AMD processor, running Mint 22.1 Mate and I'm pretty darned pleased with it. Ridiculously fast compared to the other rather old computers that I own.
I bought a 16GB RAM module from Framework but got a 2TB storage module from Crucial which was about half the price of the WD ones being offered by Framework at the time.
These are not cheap laptops but it's great that I can just open it up by loosening five little screws with a T5 driver and have access to everything. I've spent hours getting an old Toshiba apart to do a couple of minor repairs and making it work again.
Maclike experience (Score:3)
I used to run GNOME 2 with avant-window-navigator, Compiz, and Emerald. This let you have all of the Mac OS functionality plus all of the configurability of Linux.
AWN was abandoned (and while it was allegedly resurrected I never did get it to work reliably again) and Compiz has become less reliable over time. Emerald is also more crashy than it used to be. The only part left is GNOME 2 in the form of MATE.
You're better off going for a NeXTStep-like interface, which you can get with KDE or XFCE, depending on preference. That's what you could have had on the Macintosh if Apple hadn't fucked it all up in the name of eye candy.
Apple Selling Non-Mac Laptops (Score:2)
I would love to see Apple sell laptops with their M4 chips that are designed for running Linux or Windows. Perhaps using a new separate brand. Right now, I'm running Linux on a PowerBook M3 using UTM for virtualization, and it's the fastest Linux I've ever run.
Re: (Score:2)
They'll never do that as much as some might want them to. You'd think that they wouldn't care after selling you the hardware, but even though Cook isn't the same kind of control freak that Jobs was (which was occasionally a good thing) he's a financial guy that can understand that by running MacOS the average Mac hardware buyer will generate an additional $X of revenue for Apple.
Just be thankful that there's little incentive for them to spend resources blocking such efforts. They may not be much help, bu
Hardware support requires revenue (Score:2)
Chromebook is supported by datamining. Apple is supported by fuck huge margins and Apple on the appstore. Windows is supported by 365.
To set up a hardware/software ecosystem, you need a large revenue stream to support it. Ideally it should be more than just laptops and desktops too. An integrated ecosystem of laptop, desktop, phone, mobile gaming, cloud services, browser, home automation, everything ... because that's what you are competing against with Apple and Google.
Start with a couple 10s of billions o
Talk to Adobe (Score:3)
If you want Linux desktops in the wild as anything other than machines for devs and sysadmins, the one thing holding it back is Adobe.
If RedHat went to Adobe with an offer they could not refuse, Linux desktops may not become dominant, but they would not be uncommon.
Think of all the IT guys who could go to their bosses and offer to migrate machines to Linux rather than purchase new ones compatible with Windows 11. As so many other programs have become SaaS web apps, Adobe more than any other factor keeps businesses tethered to Windows and macOS.
Re: (Score:2)
lol no. This is a case of "No one ever got fired for buying Microsoft".
it's not about "sysadmins want this". most sysadmins out there aren't UNIX wizards wanting to customize everything with shell scripts. They want something that works. Even if they have the technical ability, they don't want the LIABILITY of it not working. Anyone who has worked 1 single day in IT knows how short-staffed it can be when you have to spend half your day rebooting printers, swapping keyboards and mice, and re-plugging workst
Good Hardware is hard (Score:2)
The amount of necessary components and the stringent control over the process rules this out for most manufacturers that don't have Apple's budget. Any of the bigger PC manufacturers could have done this eons ago but they don't have the organizational structure to make it a reality nowadays. The people here who could do this sort of work are either already at Apple or doing other things nowadays.I see posts about Framework but that's not enough, maybe if they get a bigger budget and are willing to invest in
Run Linux (Score:2)
I've run Linux at home for YEARS!! I tend to hop between Fedora and Ubuntu. There are a bunch of other good distros. Everything works well. For simple stuff I haven't had to jump through any configuration hoops. Steam runs amazing. Caveat, I have Ryzen 7 + AMD Rx 6700Xt video so drivers are NOT an issue. The only games that do NOT work on steam are the Battlefield games. I have a windows 11 vm in case theres something that I just have to have for windows, also an old windows 11 laptop with build
Linux isn't Mac. (Score:1)
I am sure I read this same (or similar) post ... on Slashdot and elsewhere .... .... in the 1990s.......... 2000s ............ 2010s..........
Desktop Linux has always been fine .. but it will never be a Mac, nor should it try to be.
Foolish article. (Score:2)
He doesn't really care about Linux at all as the article title points out, "I Want a Better Mac, so I’m Cheering for a Better Linux". Hardware isn't an issue either because if you want Linux software and Apple hardware, you can literally install Linux on your mac. What he writes about is promoting high-level software and hardware integration similar to Apple. However, everyone knows that this only applies to Apple brand accessories. The entire point of open source software (and Linux in particular) is
Re: Foolish article. (Score:1)
Only comment so far that is to the point. If I could mod this, I would.
Another possibility for this âoeLinux hardwareâ proposition is PC makers marketing computers equipped with hardware that is well-supported by Linux (i.e., good drivers).
But since lots of drivers are written by the community via reverse-engineering, thereâ(TM)s no way to offer cutting-edge hardware that has good Linux support.
Apps (Score:2)
I've been using a Linux laptop for a decade, but when the new Air came out recently, I jumped back to Mac even though Dell has a comparable laptop because Preview is better for viewing photos than any of the Linux photo apps. It seems like a minor thing, but since the main thing I do on my laptop is check email, web browse, and manage photos, and thunderbird and chrome are pretty much equal across platforms, photos are the distinguishing item.
On my desktop, there are other apps that make MacOS the winner, d
Where's the Snapdragon Linux laptop? (Score:1)
I'm surprised a Snapdragon X Linux laptop is still not on the market.
Gnome is a credible competitor to Apple? (Score:4, Insightful)
Apple is that bad?
asking for a friend.
Re: Gnome is a credible competitor to Apple? (Score:5, Interesting)
Every time I try Gnome I have a bad experience. I think XFCE is great for most people's needs and it doesn't try to reinvent the wheel or be shiny, it just provides functionality. I find Fluxbox great too but I see that it's not enough for most people.
Re: (Score:2)
> Every time I try Gnome I have a bad experience.
[1]Try Mint with Cinnamon then [linuxmint.com]. I'm dual-booting my 2020 Intel MacBook Pro between macOS and Mint.
Every once in a while Apple - as well as other hardware makers - will throw people a curve, but Linux adapts. You can put Linux on a T2-chipped Intel Mac. You can put Linux on an Apple Silicon Mac.
[1] https://www.linuxmint.com/download.php
Re: (Score:2)
Yeah, I don't like Gnome for the same reason I don't like OSX: no customability. There are plenty of things I don't like in *any* window manager (or OS to go wider) and in KDE there's always an option to change it. In OSX you are stuck with those damn jumping icons.
Re: (Score:3)
Gnome is great if the only thing you ever do is run a single fullscreen program. MacOS is tailored to a similar usecase.
So if your computer is a facebook machine, or just "something to run a web browser" , it's good.
Re: Gnome is a credible competitor to Apple? (Score:1, Insightful)
MacOS is absolutely not tailored to running one full screen program. Itâ(TM)s tailored for designers, developers, and video editors who bounce back and forth through multiple applications all day long. Thatâ(TM)s why it has Mission Control for switching between software and desktops. Itâ(TM)s common for graphic designers to have Photoshop, Illustrator, Indesign, a music player, and a browser open all the time. People who just want to run one piece of full screen software are either gamers run
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
oh is that so?
on windows i can alt-tab between any window i want. On the mac i'm forced to use for work, I had to install a third party app to let me switch between my IDE, my browser window, and my browser inspector window. the only way for mac to do this is to use "expose" to show all windows and click on the right one, or go to the dock and right click on the app, and then click on the window i want.
macos only command-tabs between "the last window you used in the group of windows in the app"
also, on PC i
Re: (Score:2)
macos only command-tabs between "the last window you used in the group of windows in the app"
What are you talking about?
Command-tab rotates through all running applications, just like alt-tab does on Windows or Linux. Command-tilde switches between windows of the current application.
Are you using some odd keyboard, or have you altered the default key combinations?
Also, command-space brings up the Spotlight quick launcher, which for me is the most useful key combo there is.
Re: (Score:2)
open two chrome windows, and some other program. now command-tab between all 3 windows.
Re: (Score:2)
Okay, now I see what you intended. That's not actually behavior I'd want, given my old eyes and the number of terminal windows I typically have open; but you are right that it's how it works on the Mac.
Re: (Score:2)
I always liked how macos separates switching between apps and switching between windows of a particular app. Command tab switches between apps, command tilde switches between windows of an app. Works extremely well. Command h and command shift h are also very useful. I also like how expose would also let you select windows of the running app.
On Linux doing this is a bit harder because most desktops do not have a way of association windows together per app really. Some desktops do group windows but they
Re: (Score:2)
Yeah, Apple users will always defend the apple way of doing things, even if it's inferior in every way to everything out there.
I remember back in single-button mouse era, they defended this claiming that "the os is designed so you don't need a second button, so it's a non issue".
Or that stupid mouse with the charge port on the bottom, and yes, apple users defending apple "because duh, why would you want to use your mouse while charging? and also it's your fault for running out of battery in the middle of th
Re: (Score:2)
> on windows i can alt-tab between any window i want. On the mac i'm forced to use for work, I had to install a third party app to let me switch between my IDE, my browser window, and my browser inspector window. the only way for mac to do this is to use "expose" to show all windows and click on the right one, or go to the dock and right click on the app, and then click on the window i want.
Please tell me you are joking...
There are a ton of macOS shortcuts, many of which have literally been around since pre-OSX Mac days. Cmd+W to close a tab or window, Cmd+Q to quit a program. What I have found when moving between platforms over the years is that if you demand that, e.g., macOS behaves EXACTLY like Windows, or that Linux behaves EXACTLY like Windows, you are going to be disappointed. The Mac style of active program is different from the windows paradigm. You can get the exact same result in th
Re: (Score:2)
ok so, you're running a single monitor now. Please, open chrome, open the inspector, and detach it so it's now two separate windows.
Now open whatever. An IDE maybe, or a word processor, whatever you want.
And tell me the combination to cycle between those 3 windows.
Re: (Score:2)
> And tell me the combination to cycle between those 3 windows.
I'm not a Mac user but according to the instructions given above, the combination Cmd+Tab Cmd+` Cmd+` will keep cycling between the three windows as you request (if you start with the browser having focus).
Re: (Score:2)
please tell me which app you use? I've tried a few, still nothing comes close to KDE's kwin...
Re: (Score:2)
[1]https://alt-tab-macos.netlify.... [netlify.app]
[1] https://alt-tab-macos.netlify.app/
Re: (Score:2)
We found the problem: YOU.
Mac has supported the cmd+tab functionality to switch apps since Mac OS 8. I'm not blaming Apple that you can't use Google.
Try continuing to hold down the cmd button after pushing tab, and you'll see an app switcher come up that you can continue to press tab to increment through.
Idiot.
Re: (Score:2)
"People who just want to run one piece of full screen software are either gamers running expensive PCs or office drones who spend their entire day in Word or Excel."
No, I run MS-DOS 6.22 when I want one piece of full screen software operating.
Re: (Score:2)
It doesn't sound like you've ever used Gnome. Workspaces, tiling extensions, and even the built in native splitscreen layout are all conducive to a decent multitasking experience. My 4k display is usually split into 8 different segments... on Gnome...
Re: (Score:2)
That's news to me, as I sit here with Ubuntu running on three displays, with a web browser, VS Code, a terminal, a multi-service chat app, and 4 VMs to simulate a network all running and visible.
Seems you don't know what the hell you're talking about - it's not like I had to go through some byzantine configuration process to get Gnome to do it. I literally just opened apps and dragged the windows around like any other GUI of the last 20+ years.
Re: (Score:3)
Gonme is not Linux. I am still on fvwm, which was good when it came out 30 years ago and is still good today. I have maybe invested 20 hours for a desktop that looks exactly as I want it in all that time.
Re:Gnome is a credible competitor to Apple? (Score:4, Interesting)
I think it is and it's getting worse.. just like how Windows 11 is a huge step back from Windows 7 in terms of the user actually being able to control his/her computer. It's like there's this attitude by software companies that they are entitled to use the bandwidth, hardware, electricity, battery life, and user's time that the user pays for - without ever making a priority what the user really would like. Software lately is always doing 'extra' in the background while never prioritizing what is directly what the user is wanting or needing. I hate the whole industry right now. Heads need to roll for real change. Apple sucks, Google sucks, Microsoft sucks, Adobe sucks, and every other software company sucks.. and hardware companies suck for putting up with it. Ever notice how every device - even a damn TV - needs to make the user wait so 'an app can update' or ads need to load before the menu? Pick up a device you haven't touched in a week and that device will waste your time first doing whatever it needs to do.
The user needs prioritized more..
Re: (Score:2, Interesting)
1) GNOME is not the only desktop option. For most people I would recommend KDE. I like XFCE, which is lighter because it does less, and I find I don't need KDE, but I still would suggest KDE for most users. KDE used to be very bad when GNOME was very good; now GNOME is very bad, and KDE is very good.
2) Yes, Apple is that bad, and getting worse on average , although it will be interesting to see if they make any substantive UI changes in their next version as they have promised they will do. (Obviously I don'
Re: (Score:3)
3) Apple computer hardware is fragile and has been for years. Their phones are less so, but still compromised in order to get that last millimeter of fake thin-ness (fake since the camera bulges out.) Their current performance is impressive among low-end devices, but they're still not building with quality first in mind like they did back in the 68k days.
Who in your mind is building better hardware? (The only people who actually track this stuff all says Apple is #1 and at least in my own org, Apple fa
Re: (Score:1)
Lenovo for both phones and PCs. My Moto phones consistently outlast anything else anywhere near the price and their PCs are still industry leaders even though they aren't quite as good as when IBM was in charge of what they put out.
I used to say Fujitsu but fuck them
Re: (Score:2)
> Who in your mind is building better hardware?
Well, for me, that would be anyone whose hardware actually matches what I want. For example, upgradeable storage space, a phono jack if I want one. A replaceable battery that actually follows some sort of standard so that you can basically get something off the shelf, rather than the ridiculous situation we have today. Other factors include following a design aesthetic I don't really care for. I mean, seriously, why bother with continuously trying to make the phones so thin? They're just too fragile. I kno
Re: (Score:3)
The person who wrote the original pieces is delusional AF.
I use Linux heavily daily for work, 100% of my work code runs on Linux. I've been using Linux since HJ Lu's book disk.
There's no Linux desktop that's even close to replacing Windows and MacOS and the situation has somehow only gotten worse with time. My wife is a "normal" MacOS user, she seems to have no complaints. I'm a developer user of MacOS, I have no real complaints.