75% of Scientists in Nature Poll Weigh Leaving US (nature.com)
- Reference: 0176848227
- News link: https://science.slashdot.org/story/25/03/28/1526209/75-of-scientists-in-nature-poll-weigh-leaving-us
- Source link: https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-025-00938-y
Out of 1,608 respondents, 75.3% said they were contemplating leaving the country. Scientists cited concerns over research funding and the general treatment of science as contributing factors for their reasoning. Europe and Canada were mentioned as potential destinations for those looking for opportunities abroad.
[1] https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-025-00938-y
I am sure that is intended (Score:5, Interesting)
Scientists are these assholes that come with these things called "facts" and those are inconvenient. Any self-respecting fascist state replaces actual scientists with yes-men that know the real purpose of "science" is exclusively to demonstrate how great the Fuehrer and his people are and that obviously, things are going great and are getting better!
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Facts aren't always what you want them to be. How many facts can you gather about COVID19?
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Mammon is the national religion of the USA; people just won't acknowledge it openly; their actions speak volumes.
Politics is necessary for all but hermits but also does not scale and unfortunately not scaling means major conflicts.
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> How many facts can you gather about COVID19?
FACT: Canada did things better than the US as evidenced by thousands fewer deaths per capita.
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Scientists come with theories (not the same as the vernacular use) that provide the best answer to what is observed. Theories can be supplemented or replaced via better understandings of what is being observed, e.g. Theory of Relativity replaced Newtonian Physics.
Re: I am sure that is intended (Score:2)
Relativity being a theory developed by a guy who was lucky to have left when he did in order to join Kurt Godel at Princeton.
Re: Okay (Score:2, Insightful)
Are you a MAGAt? Sound like one. Moronic.
Re: Okay (Score:5, Insightful)
Ad hominem labelling instead of engaging with the point being made. Typical libtard!
See? anyone can do this.
Let's not.
Especially, not on Slashdot.
Re: Okay (Score:2)
The especially not on /. made me snort. Good one.
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Unfortunately, GP sounds like Sabine Hossenfelder these days too.
Re:Okay (Score:4, Insightful)
As a Canadian, I will happily pay a bit more in taxes if we can get your researchers. 'tis a no-brainer.
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You know you can already send an extra check to your Dept. of Revenue if you'd like to pay more in taxes. You don't have to wait for them to raise taxes for everybody. You do that right?
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I did know that. If I thought the government would use it to enhance our research facilities, I might even do it. But I need an announcement first.
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As a matter of fact I do! Unfortunately, when tax season comes around and I do my filings, they just give it back. =(
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> You know you can already send an extra check to your Dept. of Revenue if you'd like to pay more in taxes. You don't have to wait for them to raise taxes for everybody. You do that right?
Everyone should endeavour to pay their legal minimum of taxes. If the government doesn't take in enough revenue to pay its bills, then it should raise taxes, cut spending, or borrow. There's a legitimate debate over how to balance those three. But what the government cannot do is depend on people just voluntarily sending in a check. That's just stupid.
And BTW, it's called the Canada Revenue Agency, or CRA. Not the Dept. of Revenue.
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This. Exactly this. I say it all the time.
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Right. Show me one billionaire, or billion/trillion dollar company that would even consider it. For example, Tesla, who eared $2B in the US last year, and paid *$0* in taxes.
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> As a Canadian, I will happily pay a bit more in taxes if we can get your researchers.
Define "a bit more", because I don't see how Canada can afford Net Zero AND universal dental care AND tax cuts that being promised on the campaign trail. At this point your are looking at extremely high taxes for decades into the future combined with high inflation, and these scientists don't work for free.
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Oh the gravy train is ending alright, but it might not be the one you think it is.
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> But there is also a lot of useless money being spent and eventually that gravy train needs to end.
Right... but you can't actually verify that. And you wanna know something that hasn't happened yet? Elon has not recused himself for ANYTHING.
You need to stop pretending, too.
Re: Okay (Score:2)
> Right... but you can't actually verify that.
You can, actually. Just take a quick look at grants.gov .
There is a very good chance after a few minutes you will find something that most will find preposterous.
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Sigh. The pretending continues...
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"There is a very good chance after a few minutes you will find something that most will find preposterous."
"Mind you, I don't have any actual examples to hand, but you'll find something preposterous, I'm sure of it."
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The reason you enjoy GPS today is because the research of NASA.
Re: Okay (Score:2)
Indeed. The main reason Canadian Universities cannot produce one decent football team.
Selection bias? (Score:5, Informative)
This was generic solicitation call for responses. It seems to me that they would tend to get responses from people who were planning to leave.
Prediction (Score:2)
This is a very sad and depressing prediction, but it seems to be increasingly likely.
China will become the world leader in science, engineering and technology while the US abandons science and education, vilifies intellectuals and becomes a highly armed, angry nation of poorly educated religious extremists
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An angry nation of poorly educated religious extremists is much easier for a fascist to control than an educated nation of thinkers.
Re:Prediction (Score:4, Insightful)
China tried a similar MAGA-like strategy 65 years ago with the Great Leap Forward, and it famously didn't work out too well. They eventually learned their lesson and moved on.
It looks like Trump, never one to learn from history, is dooming us to repeat it.
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What commonalities do you see between [1]Great Leap Forward [wikipedia.org] and [2]Trump's agenda [politifact.com]?
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Leap_Forward
[2] https://www.politifact.com/article/2024/sep/30/donald-trumps-2024-campaign-promises-heres-his-vis/
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This is a lot like what happened around WWII. America saw the chance to recruit lots of European scientists who were fleeing first from the Nazis and then from the war. That's how America ended up dominating science for much of the 20th century. Now it looks like the same thing will happen in reverse. It's sad for American science, but a great opportunity for the rest of the world.
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Hold on there... America's scientists are going to make Canada second or third for sure. Perhaps contending for first.
And other countries are preparing to welcome these (Score:2)
The EU is already formulating a program to welcome exiled top scientists with open arms and funding. China has had a similar program for some years already. If the brain drain really gets traction, this will harm the scientific competitiveness of the US for decades (but the university and college football teams will remain awesome and continue to make good television).
Vital research on creating transgender animals (Score:1)
[1]WCW INVESTIGATION [whitecoatwaste.org]: $10M+ Wasted to Create Transgender Mice and Monkeys
A new White Coat Waste Project analysis of federal spending uncovered over $10 million in taxpayer-funded grants currently being wasted to create transgender mice, rats, and monkeys in university labs
In the tax-funded experiments, mice, rats, and large animals underwent invasive surgeries and hormone therapies to mimic gender transitions in painful and deadly experiments
[1] https://blog.whitecoatwaste.org/2024/12/21/wcw-investigation-10m-wasted-to-create-transgender-mice-and-monkeys/
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Too bad scientists can't create a cure for ignorant morons who don't know the difference between [1]transgenic mice [nih.gov] and transgender mice.
[1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK231336/
Re:Vital research on creating transgender animals (Score:5, Insightful)
There is a great myth about Thomas Edison that applies here. It is said that, upon demonstrating that he could move the needle of a compass using a spool of wire (demonstrating electromagnetism), a woman in the audience approached him and asked "Well what good is that?" to which he is replied "Madam, what good is a newborn child?"
America has been at the forefront of technology and science for the last century BECAUSE it allowed and encourage all kinds of research without knowing precisely how it was going to become useful. It used to be that European scientists fled to America (not the other way around) for fear of their government and an opportunity to research in peace (where do you think you got the brainpower for the Atomic Bomb?).
What's going on right now goes beyond changing funding priorities: it's an attack on intellectual and academic freedoms. Even if you're personally happy to save $10 million (a pittance in the big picture) on research you don't personally see the value in, do you not see that you're not just throwing out the baby with the bathwater, you're in the process of tearing down the whole bathhouse?
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It was actually Englisman Michael Faraday who was responsible for [1]the "newborn baby" quote. [newscientist.com]
I agree with the rest of your post.
[1] https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20727771-100-zeros-to-heroes-whats-the-use-of-electricity/#:~:text=When%20asked%20%E2%80%9CWhat%20good%20is,and%20politician%20Benjamin%20Franklin%20(Nature%2C
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Per the link I shared, and other google hits I found, the story might have originated with Benjamin Franklin, well before Faraday did his work. In any case, not Thomas Edison. Electromagnetism was already being industrialized when he was around.
Re: Vital research on creating transgender animals (Score:1)
Between me, the wife, and the extended family, we've been in and around academic, corporate, and government science for a combined several decades.
My observations:
1. Most research goes nowhere. This is not unexpected since it's research.
2. Almost all *researchers* play public relations games in the following ways:
A) they are inventivized by the funding process to claim that their particular little bit of speculation is cool, splashy, and a valuable contribution to the field.
B) they are incentivized by their
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I am an transgendered person, who is tired of hearing your theological bullshit.
Re: Vital research on creating transgender animals (Score:1)
Translation: you were objectively born one gender, you subjectively believe yourself to be the other gender, and you assert without irony that the rest of us must treat your subjective opinion as objective reality based only on your say-so.
You're entitled to your own opinions and to live your own life as you choose. You do not, however, get to dictate what other people think about your opinions.
Re: ...and decided not to. (Score:2)
Well that settles it. Good job.
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I get that you're frustrated reading these sorts of pieces ragging on your homeland. Nobody likes that. But if you really believe these sorts of articles/conversations/examples are nothing more than "propaganda" rather than indicative of trending swing in sentiment... I think you're missing the forest for the trees.
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The "sentiment" is manufactured. That's my point.
Show me an exodus. Show me even a vaguely sizable group that has actually departed, or at least filed applications to emigrate. There is none. They all say; "That's the final straw. I'm totally leaving!" and then do nothing.
The survey respondents may have weighed leaving. But, they ALL abandoned the thought and chose to stay. But we are force fed this narrative that there is a huge brain drain in progress. That all the intelligent people are leaving. NONE ARE
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> Better in the U.S. reasons varied from retirement benefits, available medical services, conveniences and availability of goods...
retirement benefits -- The only government retirement benefit is Social Security, and the Trump administration appears to be threatening it.
available medical services -- The USA has great medical services. It does not have great medical insurance . You need to get a job that offers good insurance, or wait to retire and get medicare. The USA is the only industrialized nation that does not have a government-sponsored health plan for all legal residents.
conveniences and availability of goods -- Not sure what y
Like Facebook? (Score:2)
It's going to be interesting to see how many of them are the same kind of people that vocally have been "considering leaving" Facebook, WhatsApp and Twitter/X for years, and will be doing so for years to come.
Welcome to Canada, eh (Score:2)
I spoke to my Canadian countrymen, and 75% of us would like you scientists to join us up here in Canada. As 'new Canadians', you'll be given 1 free jug of maple syrup when you board the plane, and then when you land you'll have access to:
- Tours of Justin Beeber's and Ryan Reynolds' childhood homes
- Maple-leaf adorned long johns, available in most department stores
- 1 free touque every Christmas
And much, much, more, eh.
We Are Living In Trump's Idiocracy (Score:2)
Idiocracy, the movie, was not supposed to be an instruction manual.
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There needs to be a sequel to Idiocracy covering the country where all the smart people went, that is providing the dumb country with the things they need to survive that they cannot grasp.
If i was rich i would leave (Score:2)
I would move close to the Mediterranean coast in France or Spain
Canada needs to jump on this (Score:5, Insightful)
We've already had [1]two prominent scholars [insidehighered.com] leave for Toronto. With US universities throwing in the towel regarding academic freedom, this is a golden opportunity for Canada to attract world-class researchers.
Basic research is critical for competitiveness and if we can entice a bunch of researchers as the US does an own-goal on its competitiveness, we absolutely should.
[1] https://www.insidehighered.com/news/faculty-issues/academic-freedom/2025/03/26/fascism-scholars-trump-critics-leave-yale-canada
Re:Canada needs to jump on this (Score:5, Informative)
Indeed. Canada has a long history of accepting Americans who are fleeing their Government's obsession du jure. There are entire communities in my province that were made by American draft dodgers during Vietnam; and why not? In my (totally anecdotal) experience, Canadians aren't mad at Americans right now, they're mad at America (and in particular the guy running it). I'm sure the two you mentioned won't be the last, but you're right in suggesting that Canada ought to do what it can to be the easy choice for academics wanting to jump ship.
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One of the endpoints of the Underground Railroad was Canada - the slaves were escaping slavehood and becoming free.
So yeah, a lot is happening. I know doctors and nurses are seriously considering a move to Canada as well - one acquaintance basically is working to set up a doctor's new practice in Canada buying up new computers and other such equipment.
Many provinces are going through and trying to expedite the licensing process - if you have a valid US medical license, you can obtain a provincial one within
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Timothy Snyder leaving for Canada really pisses me off. He's all "do not obey in advance", but here he is deserting before they've even attacked him.
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And it looks like this Jason Stanley is very much doing the same thing. Fucking shameful shit.
Re:Canada needs to jump on this (Score:4, Insightful)
He has a wife and two kids. I'm not going to judge him for thinking of his family's safety.
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A LOT OF US HAVE WIVES AND KIDS. We can't all run away to Canada. We have to resist! That's HIS FUCKING TEACHING!
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Again... I am not going to judge. Some people might better be able to resist from outside the country. You need both: People within and people from the outside.
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Do you understand that Trump is doing everything he can to suppress education? That is very clear. Why would he wait until everyone is moving to Canada and it causes a whole new housing crisis?
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America already shit the bed on this one. The Insurrection Act is going to be invoked soon enough to seize military control of the blue states, you'll start seeing Congressional and state Democrats arrested. Sane people will get the hell out of the US before the border closes.
Good luck with that. We'll happily take your academics and scientists, and leave you to sink into right wing religious fanatical shithole the country has always wanted to be.
Re: Deserting to Canada... (Score:2)
I imagine they scorned GÃdel much the same way when he left for Princeton.
I'd see it more like advanced thinking.