How Buildings Are Staying Cool and Saving Money - with Batteries Made of Ice (msn.com)
- Reference: 0176592275
- News link: https://hardware.slashdot.org/story/25/03/02/2015220/how-buildings-are-staying-cool-and-saving-money---with-batteries-made-of-ice
- Source link: https://www.msn.com/en-us/weather/topstories/these-buildings-use-batteries-made-of-ice-to-stay-cool-and-save-money/ar-AA1A2tUH
> When electricity is cheap, the batteries freeze water. When energy costs go up, building managers turn off their pricey chillers and use the ice to keep things cool. A typical building uses about [2]a fifth of its electricity for cooling, according to the International Energy Agency. By shifting their energy use to cheaper times of day, the biggest buildings can save hundreds of thousands of dollars a year on their power bills. They can also avoid using electricity from the dirtiest fossil fuel plants. In places where the weather is hot and energy prices swing widely throughout the day — for instance, Texas, Southern California and most of the American Southwest — buildings could cut their power bills and carbon emissions by as much as a third, experts say...
>
> When every building is blasting its air conditioner at the same moment on a hot day, power companies often fire up backup generators, known as peaker plants, which are generally [3]extra pricey and polluting . If utilities avoid using peaker plants, they'll pollute less and save money. Last year, the Energy Department struck a tentative [4]$306 million loan deal with the ice-battery-maker Nostromo Energy to install its systems in 193 California buildings to make energy cheaper and cleaner while lowering the state's blackout risk.
"The batteries themselves are huge..." the article acknowledges, citing one in New York City that uses 100 parking spot-sized tanks "which collectively make 3 million margaritas' worth of ice each night... But that's starting to change." (And they believe new smaller designs "could bring the batteries into smaller buildings and even houses.")
> Wherever they can squeeze into the market, ice batteries could be a cheaper and longer-lasting option than the lithium-ion batteries that power phones, cars and some buildings because their main ingredient is water, experts say. The pricey chemicals in a lithium-ion cell might degrade after 10 years, but water never wears out.
And according to the article, one company has already installed ice batteries in over 4,000 buildings...
[1] https://www.msn.com/en-us/weather/topstories/these-buildings-use-batteries-made-of-ice-to-stay-cool-and-save-money/ar-AA1A2tUH
[2] https://www.iea.org/reports/the-future-of-cooling
[3] https://www.sandia.gov/app/uploads/sites/163/2022/04/Issue-Brief-2020-11-Peaker-Plants.pdf?itid=lk_inline_enhanced-template
[4] https://www.energy.gov/lpo/articles/lpo-announces-conditional-commitment-nostromo-energy-enhance-grid-reliability-and-cut
Can we please stop calling them "batteries"...? (Score:4, Insightful)
They are not batteries.
They are heat absorbers.
They absorb heat by using the phase change of ice to water.
They do not produce power, so they are not batteries.
Remember that cold isn't energy, it is the absence of thermal energy.
Re: (Score:2)
> They are not batteries. ... They do not produce power, so they are not batteries.
Chemical batteries don't produce power either, they store energy. These are ice, which is frozen water, which was frozen using electricity. That took energy, like charging a chemical battery. That energy is later released when the ice melts, absorbing heat and cooling the surrounding air. This is like a heat pump. Stop being so, unnecessarily, pedantic. Also, the term "battery" has all sorts of meanings other than as a energy storage device ( [1]battery [google.com]).
[1] https://www.google.com/search?q=define+battery
Re: (Score:2)
Chemical batteries don't produce power either, they store energy.
Batteries produce energy.
Re: (Score:2)
"Batteries produce energy."
Some just shoot shells.
Re: (Score:2)
Others accompany assaults.
Re: (Score:2)
The definition of an electrical battery is a device that uses an electrochemical cell to store/produce energy. These devices don't use redox reactions, they aren't batteries. One could call them a "heat accumulator", "thermal energy storage", or more specifically "latent heat storage" [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org] . For this very particular device the term is "ice storage air conditioning" [2]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_energy_storage#Latent_heat_storage
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_storage_air_conditioning
Re: (Score:2)
Is the word "batteries" in the article? Check, ready to publish!
Re: (Score:2)
Would you be happy if we call them anti-batteries instead? We pump heat out of them when energy (to run the heat pump) is cheap, and then allow heat back into them when energy is more expensive.
Re: (Score:2)
Not a battery but, They are more like thermal capacitaters
Re: (Score:1)
> They are not batteries.
They are indeed batteries.
[1]https://www.merriam-webster.co... [merriam-webster.com]
> 5
> a(1)
> : a number of similar articles, items, or devices arranged, connected, or used together : set, series
> ran through a battery of tests
> a battery of filing cabinets
They are batteries of ice blocks.
[1] https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/battery
That's cool and all but (Score:4, Insightful)
It's only useful so long as we continue to have price swings from power providers. Enough people doing this will eventually dampen price swings and limit the economic feasibility of using chillers to store ice. Any other parties that find other ways to feed off cheap power due to generation imbalance will also be in competition.
Re: (Score:2)
> It's only useful so long as we continue to have price swings from power providers. Enough people doing this will eventually dampen price swings and limit the economic feasibility of using chillers to store ice. Any other parties that find other ways to feed off cheap power due to generation imbalance will also be in competition.
Yes, but price swings happen because of inconsistent or unreliable supply. At one time in the not-so-distant past this would have been the utility's problem, but now it is the customer's problem. You seem to think customers will solve the problem themselves, and that is what the people in charge think too, but I'm not so convinced. I think you should get used to the price swings.
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I think that Texas is sensible, using wind and solar... and real batteries. We rock and are sending oil to other states. You pay for oil, and we do not. I think it is only sensible to use water for air conditioning... common sense.
Re: (Score:2)
> Yes, but price swings happen because of inconsistent or unreliable supply. At one time in the not-so-distant past this would have been the utility's problem, but now it is the customer's problem.
It's a utility customer problem in more ways than one. There's reports of solar+battery fires:
[1]https://www.pv-magazine.com/20... [pv-magazine.com]
> You seem to think customers will solve the problem themselves, and that is what the people in charge think too, but I'm not so convinced. I think you should get used to the price swings.
It is rare to see residential utility customers to see these price swings, they'd pay a flat rate regardless of the spot price for electricity. Large electricity consumers like factories will pay the spot price, and also have requirements on their consumption such as power factor correction. Really big consumers might want to have some of their electricity produced on site as a
[1] https://www.pv-magazine.com/2025/02/25/german-housebuilder-puts-some-lg-home-batteries-into-standby-mode-after-explosion/
Re: (Score:2)
Yeah, ice storage is a gamble that utilities won't come along at some point and "alter the deal". A PV system and just running a standard air conditioning from that is a much safer investment, even if the upfront costs end up being higher.
Someone tell Ripley (Score:3)
Nostromo?
They really should check to see what the Weyland-Yutani Corporation has hidden in the ice.
Some wishful thinking there (Score:2)
The failure mechanics of lithium batteries are substantially more difficult than the intricacies of a freezer with its heat exchangers, pumps and all. Sure, yeah!
Re: (Score:2)
> The failure mechanics of lithium batteries are substantially more difficult than the intricacies of a freezer with its heat exchangers, pumps and all. Sure, yeah!
I get where you're going with this, but a heat pump / freezer like this has relatively few moving parts, and none that can't be readily repaired/replaced. The useful lifespan is also probably longer than a lithium battery. For example, the heat pump at my house has been in use since 2005 needing only minor work to replace a stuck valve or worn run capacitor. The refrigerator at my house was here when I bought the place in 1993 and I've only had to replace the defrost timer. Still, there are probably go
Denver (Score:4, Informative)
Downtown Denver's district heating system has run continuously from 1879. They began operating a district cooling system based on freezing water to ice at night and melting it during the day in 1996.
Re: (Score:2)
Socialism! Tear it down!
Re:Denver (Score:4, Interesting)
[1]University of Arizona has been doing it since the 50s. [calmac.com] For those of you who don't like articles, it says that it saves them about $38,000 a month. First learned about it when I was there doing a Post Doc. Makes a whole lot of sense in the desert where those night time temps are a good 25-30 degrees cooler.
[1] https://www.calmac.com/large-energy-storage-project-university-of-arizona
Thermal energy storage (TES) (Score:2)
Some locations have been using things such as stones and concrete to store thermal energy for quite some time (for both heating at night, and cooling during the day). Water and ice are basically just different mediums for the energy storage.
Re: (Score:2)
If the system can take proper advantage of it, there's an advantage to incorporating a phase change into the process.
Sounds great (Score:2)
Until the Legionnaires test comes back positive
The "tons" in hvac speak is tons of ice (Score:1)
A ton of cooling or heating is the heat of fusion in a one ton block of ice. That's 12000 btus. One ton of heating or cooling is 12000 btu/hr. A typical cooling or heating load in a residential system is 2-3 tons. So 3 tons of ice per hour. Maybe stretch that out to 3 tons of ice in 4 hours for 25% duty factor.
That's gonna be a *lot* of water and ice for a commercial building.
3 million margaritas (Score:2)
I like that unit better than Olympic swimming pools.... *giggles*.
Re: 3 million margaritas (Score:2)
Stop. Collaborate and listen. Ice is back and hes on a mission.