Hertz Continues EV Purge (arstechnica.com)
- Reference: 0175775741
- News link: https://tech.slashdot.org/story/24/12/27/1951230/hertz-continues-ev-purge
- Source link: https://arstechnica.com/cars/2024/12/hertz-is-asking-ev-renters-if-they-want-to-buy-their-rentals/
> Apparently Hertz's purging of electric vehicles from its fleet [1]isn't going fast enough for the car rental giant . A Reddit user posted an offer they received from Hertz to buy the 2023 Tesla Model 3 they had been renting for $17,913. Hertz originally went strong into EVs, announcing a plan to [2]buy 100,000 Model 3s for its fleet by the end of 2021, but 16 months later had acquired only half that amount. The company found that repair costs -- especially for Teslas, which averaged 20 percent more than other EVs -- were cutting into its profit margins. Customer demand was also not what Hertz had hoped for; last January, it announced plans to [3]sell off 20,000 EVs .
>
> Asking its customers if they want to purchase their rentals isn't a new strategy for Hertz. "By connecting our rental customers who opt into our emails to our sales channels, we're not only building awareness of the fact that we sell arsenal but also offering a unique opportunity to someone who may be in the market for the same car they have on rent," Hertz communications director Jamie Line told The Verge. Hertz is advertising a limited 12-month, 12,000-mile powertrain warranty for each EV, and customers will have seven days to return the car in case of profound buyer's regret.
[1] https://arstechnica.com/cars/2024/12/hertz-is-asking-ev-renters-if-they-want-to-buy-their-rentals/
[2] https://tech.slashdot.org/story/21/10/25/1829257/tesla-surpasses-1-trillion-market-cap
[3] https://tech.slashdot.org/story/24/01/11/1958253/hertz-is-selling-20000-electric-vehicles-to-buy-gasoline-cars-instead
I never understood the push for EV rental cars (Score:2)
EVs are great for many purposes, especially if you can charge them at home.
But as a rental? I get e rental when I am in a different place, and need to do a lot of driving - otherwise I just get an uber. Unfamiliar place, unfamiliar vehicle, no home charging, long driving distances - that is exactly the combination where EVs absolutely suck. Add the regular incompetence of rental places (no induction for charging, no charging on site), and it was a recipe for disaster.
Supposedly every company knows their bus
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Rented a Tesla from Hertz before. I charge at a supercharger as needed. The car tells you where via the on-board navigation.
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...if you have a wireless connection available.
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Every Tesla sold save for the original Roadster does this out of the box. Every one. They ALL have 4g/5g modems in them, all of them. If you dont pay for premium connectivity, they come with basic as standard, which includes navigation and remote control of the vehicle functions.
Re: I never understood the push for EV rental cars (Score:2)
Well maybe there are no dead zones in the US but there are many in Canada. In fact I live in one.
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I dont find it inconvenient in the slightest. Takes a little longer sure, but charging while I sleep is just the best and far worth the 5% of the time I actually need to be patient for 20 more minutes, when Im likely pissing or getting a bite to eat anyway. Charging at home is by far the most convenient way to energize your car. God, I cant imagine having to go out of my way twice a week to fill up. God thats such a drag.
Re: I never understood the push for EV rental cars (Score:2)
Twice.a week? I go once every couple weeks. You must commute a lot.
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I rent EVs all the time. Love them.
How hard to rent an EV if you'd not driven one? (Score:2)
Do you own an EV? I wonder how hard it is for a non-EV owner to rent an EV, i.e. how big is the learning curve for core functionality. (I'll do my own assessment, if Hertz still has the Polestar 2 I reserved for a rental in February. It'll be my first EV if that goes through.)
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Thank you.
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> Americans are not used to business decisions across the economy being dictated (either explicitly or by soft power) from central planners in Washington
That shit has literally been happening since before the ink on the Constitution was dry. WTF are you talking about?
Just because it's being applied to something that you have an illogical (and seemingly politically motivated) objection to doesn't mean it's a new thing.
=Smidge=
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> It wasn't motivated by cold dispassionate attention to the business or the bottom line. It was motivated equal parts by obsequious deference to desired outcomes of the outgoing administration
tl;dr
Democrats fault.
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The rental business model is as much about resale as it is about rental. They expect to buy in bulk at steep discounts, then resell before the cars lose too much value. Apparently the Tesla deal was a double whammy - higher than expected maintenance cost, then resale value plunged due to Tesla price cuts. I don't know how demand was for the cars - maybe less there too as you suggest.
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No the majority of rental cars do not drive long distances, they are typically used to drive around locally. As for no home charging, that's an American problem. The last few hotels I've stayed at have had EV charging stations. The last few Hertz EV rentals I've had came with Shell Recharge tokens meaning I had access to virtually every curb side charger in the country.
I'm actually driving a rental right now on holidays. Not an EV this time, but I've been here a week and have driven just over 300km, I would
Warranty (Score:2)
> 12,000-mile powertrain warranty
I hope that includes the battery. Or it's worthless. Even then, 12,000 miles isn't much for an EV battery. Not enough time to catch all the lemons.
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I'm looking at a used Polestar 2. They come with an 8 year 100,000 mile factory warranty on the battery. [1]https://www.polestar.com/us/po... [polestar.com]
[1] https://www.polestar.com/us/polestar-2/warranty-and-service/
Re: Warranty (Score:2)
But what do they call a "failed battery"? I prefer the car to not lose range at all.
ev rentals? (Score:1)
Fly in to a new city, Run to the hotel? PLug your car in where? maybe 1 or 2 chargers available? Run around town and attend your meetings, Where do you charge? Maybe a couple of chargers at a parking lot? RUn out to dinner, maybe 1 charger? So now day two your out of charge an SOL for the rest of your trip. Until charge times and availability approaches a gas fillup time. Its not a good option for rentals.
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Furthermore, now your selection of places to go and to stay are cut by at least a fifth. These will probably be more expensive hotels, restaurants, and other services. The ICE people aren't tethered to only places with chargers.
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That's baloney. Unless you’re visiting Buttfuck Egypt out in the boonies. There are chargers widely available in most cities.
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Which is fine if it happens to be where and when you need to be. First, if I'm traveling on business, I'm usually involved from early morning until evening. If I'm traveling for pleasure - well I don't fly and rent cars, so it doesn't matter. I doubt whether there is adequate charging infrastructure in Manhattan, NY; in Philadelphia, PA; in the center of Chicago.
Makes sense for now (Score:2)
Rental cars have a high milage as they are rented mostly for long drives. Especially when Herz went into it, ranges of these tesla's and charging time weren't that great, also the amount of (good) charging points isn't still really great (unless you have your own driveway). Add up the crappy build quality of Tesla's and you have a pretty nightmare for a rental car. It's only now that EV's are getting really longer ranges and faster charging capabilities, but we're still at the early years of EV adoption/tec
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Yeah I wouldn't mind having one, eventually. Heck, petroleum is far too valuable to burn for transport, not when our many nuclear power stations provide so much energy to the grid (snerk). Seriously, I wouldn't mind having one but I think we're at about the 1915 level equivalent with EVs to ICE vehicles.
Re: Makes sense for now (Score:2)
Well, that's the main problem, if those oilbarons back in the days hadn't pushed their product so aggressively and even threatened others, we would have been driving very advanced EV's now, as EV's were being developed and built before even the ICE cars.
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In the early days, you just couldn't hope to compete with hydrocarbon energy densities. The battery tech was at least a generation away if not two.
I'm very confident if you had explained smog and global warming to them, they'd still have chosen oil and put off dealing with those issues.
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Rentals are not universally rented for long drives. In many cases rentals are used a lot, that doesn't mean they go long distances. Many rentals are done so with contracts that may actually limit how far you can drive them. There are many options for many situations. For many EVs are fine, for some they are not.
I recently rented a Polestar 2 from Hertz that was 3 years old and had only 16000km on it. That's about the distance I put on my own Polestar in 9 months, just commuting. Just for fun I looked up cen
Sounds more like a purge of over priced Teslas.. (Score:4, Interesting)
But sure blame the entire sector for that click-bait pizzazz.
High maintenance? (Score:2)
Doesn't exactly make sense. Batteries are lasting longer than manufacturers anticipated and there's a lot less moving parts in an EV. Not sure where they're getting high maintenance costs from.
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I looked this up and "repairs" mean body work and collision repairs. Not normal wear and tear or shit generally breaking.
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From dipshit renters who don't care about the car when driving it, because it's not theirs.
Have you seen how people drive rentals?
NEVER buy a pre-owned rental.
The electric future is complicated (Score:2)
An electric mobility researcher I know sums it up nicely: "The future is electric, but the future is not necessarily now."
Basically, for some people going electric makes sense now (and/or they can afford it), and for others (still many more on this planet) that is presently not true. Some countries can force the issue if they want to for whatever reason (e.g., EVs in China; Norway in general: small population, lots of hydro power, they could focus on clean electricity for decades and wisely chose to do so,
Rampant Ignorance (Score:2)
Judging from the comments on this post, there are still lots of ignorant people with regard to EV's. And it appears that the greater the ignorance, the more likely the poster will make statements with a great sense of certainty, tossing out bogus stats ad nauseam. Most EV owners (>95%) who have home charging and access to the Tesla charging network, ain't going back.
Yeah, I know. I can make up stats with the best of them.
Re: Not only Hertz... (Score:2, Interesting)
If there are any overall environmental benefits, they certainly don't seem to be worth the extra up front cost, low resale value, extra planning for long trips and worries about battery degradation over time.
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Funny, I have had a $156k Model X P100D since 2018, and bought a $157k Model X Plaid in 2022.
The fact that I wake up just about every day with a full tank of gas, charged off my house's Solar for the most part, is miles ahead of my gas vehicle experience. Also, my tires run about 60,000 miles between changes. The whole she-bang about rubber having excess wear is just a myth. They aren't heavier:
Tesla Model X Plaid: Around 5,400 lbs (2,450 kg)
Audi Q7 (V6 model): Approximately 5,100 lbs (2,313 kg).
Merc
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So you spent three times more than I have ever paid for a car and it does what you want. Good for you. You basically validated my point about price.
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>> I have had a $156k Model X P100D since 2018, and bought a $157k Model X Plaid in 2022.
> So you spent three times more than I have ever paid for a car and it does what you want. Good for you. You basically validated my point about price.
He spent 3x more -- each -- than I've spent for *all* my cars combined -- 1969 VW Beetle (free from Grandfather in 1982), a used 1987 Honda Prelude SI (1-year used w/30k miles in '88), a new 2001 Civic Ex and a new 2002 CR-V Ex -- the latter two I still have with 135k and 61k miles respectively.
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I have a fully loaded Explorer. It was $40K brand new.
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Thats great, I have a Ford F150 that I bought for $4k. My Plaid is faster than my friends Aventador to about 135mph. Cars come in different speeds, capabilities, and sizes. What is your point? My point is a Model 3 has an excellent warranty and is cheap to insure, which makes Hertz's decision odd.
Re: Not only Hertz... (Score:2)
If EVs are so great, why buy a used Ford F150? Funny how people who say they love EVs always have more than EVs.
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Maybe he doesn't want to fill the back of his Model X with bark dust or gravel?
What a silly question.
Re: Not only Hertz... (Score:2)
The f150 and the model x are two vehicle types. Why not compare apples to apples?
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> He spent 3x more -- each -- than I've spent for *all* my cars combined
True for me + wife as well (probably no surprise, given my username). Wife's used Subaru Outback was the most expensive car we've bought to date - that was $35K during the pandemic.
However I am still leaning towards an EV being my next vehicle, and adding a charger to my house.
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Not 3x more for me, actually... roughly 2x.
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Funnily enough, even adjusted for inflation I bought 6 cars in the past 32 years for the cost of one of theirs. And we, as a family, still drive four of them (our newest car is ~8 years old). Suburbanite speaking ...
Not too long ago I had a solar panel sales person at my house. I live in a hot place (so A/C is a must), and even with that, after we briefly went over our use numbers and cost, he just waved me off and said: don't get solar panels, not worth it. From a sales guy!
If I had the land to put the pan
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You're going to shit yourself when you see used car prices today.
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I bought a 2017 Chevy Bolt EV earlier this year that had a newly installed factory battery with a ten year warranty, and it cost me $15,000 *before* tax incentives that brought the price down to around $8000. It seems to me you can't complain both that (a) EVs cost too much and (b) EVs don't retain resale value, at the same time.
I absolutely agree that it makes no economic sense to buy a new EV at sticker prices not counting tax incentives. That's largely a matter of car companies not having the capability
Re: Not only Hertz... (Score:2)
A Chevy bolt is a very small car, I would need way bigger than that so it's not in my consideration.
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Sure. And if you needed a panel van a RAV4 wouldn't work for you but a Transit van would. That wouldn't mean the Transit is good but the RAV4 is bad.
Not everyone is going to need the same thing. We're a two car family, and having the second car a small electric that comfortably seats four adults and charges up in the driveway is super-convenient, even if it's not what I'd use to haul a sheet of plywood or a family of five on a driving vacation.
Re: Not only Hertz... (Score:2)
If you have two cars then obviously it is going to be easier to own an EV.
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I'm saying it depends on your circumstances, and you can't jump to the conclusion that something's stupid because it doesn't happen meet *your* needs. I'd be perfectly happy with my Bolt if it I only had access to one car, but clearly if I had to carry heavy equipment to a construction site it'd be *a stupid choice for me*. But I don't do those things and it's a great choice for me.
Likewise if you're a contractor and drive an F-250, that's a sensible choice for you. If you just use it to drive ten or twe
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The battery in a Model X which is the largest made by Tesla to that point is 900lbs. About 300lbs more than the weight of an engine. The Motors are about 200-300lbs, which is about as heavy as the transmission, nevermind the differentials. My point is a Tesla is about average in weight for its size.
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Data point right here that those with too much money are way out of touch with the common folk.
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> Funny, I have had a $156k Model X P100D since 2018, and bought a $157k Model X Plaid in 2022.
At those prices you prepaid a lot for the fuel. Your $156K P100D has 146k miles on it. At 20 MPG that's 7300 gallons x $4/gal = $29k gasoline cost. The Plaid has used $14k in gasoline. Even assuming electricity is free the break even on fuel cost is many years and miles away.
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I bought them for their driving pleasure. They are fast. I could have saved a lot getting a 100D Model X ($40k difference at the time IIRC).
My point that everyone missed, was that $300k in cars has cost me practically nothing to maintain and repair. They dont burn more tires, despite having the 0-60 or 0-100 of a high end Lamborghini. They have excellent warranties (I will admit the service experience leaves much to be desired from a time perspective which might matter more to Hertz). They are relatively
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Low resale value is great for the used market. It's not a unique problem with EVs either. You buy a new $200,000 Mercedes S class and it will consistently lose $15,000 a year.
Re:Not only Hertz... (Score:5, Insightful)
Overstated. EVs are a poor fit for rental market, as they are a poor fit for lower and middle classes and urbanites due to high repair and maintenance costs and inability to charge at home.
But they're a good fit for wealthy suburbanites who can charge at home, and don't have wear and tear issues as much because they don't drive enough to generate wear and tear and generally can afford massive repair bills if/when they suddenly arrive, as well as rapidly growing insurance costs. They do bring status, they are very fun to drive (though they make a lot of people shitty drivers because of how fun they are drive) and they are fairly cheap to run as long as as you use them for a daily commute and not much else.
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Honestly, I wonder if Tesla gave Hertz a pricing deal which excluded maintenance? They are under warranty for 4 years bumper to bumper and 8 years on the battery and drive units. Mine have been in accidents, and in for service under warranty. Never spent a penny other than on tires about every 60k miles and wipers.
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Problem is likely with the fact that Tesla repairs are actually expensive. It's not that Tesla overcharges for it, it's that it's not designed to be easily repairable. This results in long repairs times, and work hours are one of the primary costs in repairs.
And rentals are under a lot of stress. Owners of expensive cars usually take care of them, and drive them fairly reasonably. Consider your own driving, and compare it to how you would treat a rental. Then compare it to how bottom 10% renters treat renta
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But the repairs should be free for 4 years (other than the time spent waiting for the repair center).
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Warranty repairs do not cover user induced damage. With rental companies, repairs of user induced damage are a norm.
And Tesla's queues for repairs are awful. That's time when car isn't available for rent.
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Hertz is generally incompetent as far as corporations go. They bought all these EVs and didn't install any fast chargers. Customers would get a nearly dead car with Hertz directing them to the nearest public charger. Every rental I used came with a full tank of gasoline.
That and wrongfully having lots of customers arrested. [1]https://www.npr.org/2022/12/06... [npr.org]
[1] https://www.npr.org/2022/12/06/1140998674/hertz-false-accusation-stealing-cars-settlement
So that's kind of the problem (Score:3)
There are only so many wealthy suburbanites left in America and the ones who are willing to buy EVs have kind of bought them. Meaning the market is saturated. It doesn't help that about a fifth of them aren't happy with their purchase and won't be buying an EV again.
The American EV market maybe heading for a collapse. They need to be expanding into Europe and China but they can't possibly compete with Chinese EVs and other market since the Chinese are using literal slave labor to build their cars and yo
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The *only* way for EVs to become mainstream is for their cost to be so low that people can buy the EV for grocery-getting and still be able to afford an ICE for longer trips. A lot of families I know have two cars, but hardly ever is one of them over $60K or so.
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EVs are fundamentally "household's second car". Primary one has to be the one that works for everything, so it can't be an EV for most people.
Fundamentally, I suspect what will happen is that PHEVs will become more common. The likes of Toyota already made their baseline hybrids a norm in sedans and SUVs after their success in prius, and it works costs wise even for a basic corolla and yaris to be a hybrid. Natural next step is PHEV with bigger battery that can do daily commute in EV mode, and can run as a n
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Expanding to Europe good luck with that. Tesla already is here, and the market over here is already cornered by Tesla, VW, Stellantis etc.. and the chines are also aggressively trying to get in!
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It's a bit more complicated than that. There are places where EVs are perfectly fine as a rental, e.g. Netherlands, where not only can you charge virtually anywhere, Hertz even give you a Shell Recharge token to use and make it easy.
The issue is, even in the Netherlands the purge is happening. It's not just maintenance, the cost on the books for Hertz is a ludicrous write-off. They bought the cars in bulk, only to have Tesla apply a huge discount on new and existing models effectively handing Hertz a massiv
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Do I need to post the memes about Tesla's repair costs? With rental, repairs are a very real issue, while they have already eaten the write down on the cost, regardless if they sell now or in three years.
Because I will actually post memes about Tesla's repair costs. I can even post you the hilarious Tesla scams, where Tesla owners desperately try to pass body damage as "this wasn't here while we were parked, give me your insurance information". There are quite a few videos of these. And duration of repairs,
Re: Not only Hertz... (Score:2)
No it isn't, only EV haters keep saying that. Prices of EV's are starting to come down to the same price of the ICE equivalent and looking at the coming years, will even drop below it. EV's are much more comfortable in driving and we're still just at the early days of EV's where battery technology is improving every year with better ranges and chargingspeeds. Yeah at the time Herz bought those Tesla's they weren't, and still aten't, the best vehicles for rental. If you actually read the report, one of the b
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Costing the same isn't good enough unless they are as fast and easy to fuel up as ICEs and sell for the same values. Also, often what you would think is a direct comparison actually has much less cargo and passenger room in the EV.
Re: Not only Hertz... (Score:2)
You're clearly an EV hater with spewing bullocks about lesser room.
Re: Not only Hertz... (Score:2)
I have two large dogs and need the room for them and a weeks worth of food. To me, cargo space isn't "bullocks", it makes the car usable.
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There are plenty of EV's that do have the cargo space needed, as even with ICE the stationwagon variaty isn't available anymore. There isn't any EV where the ICE equivalent has more cargo space, hell the EV version in most cases have more due to the extra frunk.