Chinese Drone Maker DJI Might Get Banned Next in the US (nytimes.com)
- Reference: 0173648828
- News link: https://news.slashdot.org/story/24/04/26/1612231/chinese-drone-maker-dji-might-get-banned-next-in-the-us
- Source link: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/25/us/politics/us-china-drones-dji.html
[2]non-paywalled link
, prompting a lobbying campaign from the company, which dominates the commercial and consumer drone markets. The New York Times:> DJI is on a Defense Department list of Chinese military companies whose products the U.S. armed forces will be prohibited from purchasing in the future. As part of the defense budget that Congress passed for this year, other federal agencies and programs are likely to be prohibited from purchasing DJI drones as well. The drones -- though not designed or authorized for combat use -- have also become ubiquitous in Russia's war against Ukraine.
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> The Treasury and Commerce Departments have penalized DJI over the use of its drones for spying on Uyghur Muslims who are held in camps by Chinese officials in the Xinjiang region. Researchers have found that Beijing could potentially exploit vulnerabilities in an app that controls the drone to gain access to large amounts of personal information, although a U.S. official said there are currently no known vulnerabilities that have not been patched. Now Congress is weighing legislation that could kill much of DJI's commercial business in the United States by putting it on a Federal Communications Commission roster blocking it from running on the country's communications infrastructure.
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> The bill, which has bipartisan support, has been met with a muscular lobbying campaign by DJI. The company is hoping that Americans like Mr. Nordfors who use its products will help persuade lawmakers that the United States has nothing to fear -- and much to gain -- by keeping DJI drones flying. "DJI presents an unacceptable national security risk, and it is past time that drones made by Communist China are removed from America," Representative Elise Stefanik, Republican of New York and one of the bill's primary sponsors, said in an emailed statement this month.
[1] https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/25/us/politics/us-china-drones-dji.html
[2] https://www.theverge.com/2024/4/26/24141369/dji-ban-china-countering-ccp-drones-act
Chinese everything will get banned eventually (Score:5, Insightful)
If China keeps siding with Russia (or decides to try it's own military fortune on other people's territory), it's making a choice that other countries cannot ignore.
Re:Chinese everything will get banned eventually (Score:5, Informative)
Or if they are actively trying to take over the south china sea, committing industrial espionage on an industrial scale, interfere with elections or prepare to take over Taiwan. All of which they are doing now.
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It seems that a very large part of the world, including China and India, has been very successful at ignoring Russia's choice. The real problem is that doing business with China is becoming increasingly less dispensable to that large part of the world while doing business with the US has become increasingly more dispensable.
Taiwan is Chinese territory according to most of the world. That includes many people on Taiwan who don't like the current Chinese government. That doesn't mean they will approve of th
Meh (Score:3)
DJI has already spun off a US division and licensed their products to them. So even if DJI is banned, the US company will continue to offer their products.
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> ...the US company will continue to offer their products...
...and continue making profits, which is the most important thing!
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Do you know what the US division is called? I'm just curious to look it up and how they did it with the looming TikTok legislation and wanted to compare them but I cant find anything specific to a divestment. Did they license to another American company?
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Anzu Robotics. The designs are identical.
[1]https://www.techradar.com/came... [techradar.com]
[1] https://www.techradar.com/cameras/drones/dji-drones-just-got-a-new-rival-in-the-us-that-licenses-dji-technology
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Hope the DJI CEO cleared that with Pooh, or he might get a special vacation.
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Thank you, it's interesting that they just are using the DJI hardware and it was a one time deal with DJI
If Raptor drones use DJI tech, how does it avoid restrictions in US air space? Well, the drones are manufactured outside of China in Malaysia and use domestically-developed software created in collaboration with Aloft Technologies
Quite interesting. (Score:2)
We have Anti BDS laws to support a certain group of people, But actively try to Boycott Divest, and Sanction others. Sounds a bit like "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others"
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And they aren't actually criticizing one group of people either, rather they are criticizing the prime minister and government of one group of people. It really is interesting. Also both peoples involved in this conflict are Semitic if we use the literal definition of the term.
Others use this same tactic of conflating opposition to government or policy with hatred of a race. The CCP in China does this all the time. They've managed to convince a large majority of Chinese citizens that if anyone in the we
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I don't think they sold too many Mercedes' during World War II. Not doing business with the enemy is pretty much standard policy. And make no mistake, China is the enemy,
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What makes China "the enemy"?
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> And make no mistake, China is the enemy,
Because they're winning at the game of capitalism? Or because of some nebulous fear that some government official in the CCP is getting their rocks off knowing that you walked your dog at exactly 6:17PM yesterday?
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As far as I understand it there is no federal BDS laws, those are all state and local things.
Wrong approach to solving a security problem (Score:4, Insightful)
The idea of banning individual products or companies over potential security issues seems a very poor way of going about solving the problem.
Lawmakers should identify the security issues and lay out exactly what their concerns are, identifying exactly what should be prohibited, with some technical guidance to make this practical.
Trying to legislate just based on FUD takes us back to the McCarthy period.
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Ok..how about this?
The US should start to steer itself away from any dependence on products from antagonistic countries.
Start immediately with any products that have obvious national security implications, and work your way down from those...slowly ween yourself off that test, and bring home as much manufacturing domestically and that which remains external to the US...should be in multiple friendly countries so as not to have a monoculture of any one country potentially holding us by the "short and curli
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Sounds good, but greed, arrogance and stupidity have made that pretty much impossible by now. Unless you _want_ to completely destroy the US economy?
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Why are countries antagonistic to the United States? Can you think of any reasons? Put on your big boy hat and think really hard ... you can do it if you try.
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What?!!! And risk our businesses' profits? Are you INSANE?!!! American exist so rich people can run multinational companies and fleece pretty much all of us for insane profits. Huge portions of our legal system are designed to ensure this doesn't change.
Sure, I'd love to implement some sensible regulation that don't immediately become a barrier to entry for competition, but let's face it, anti-trust is just something we pretend to care about so as to entertain the voters while they give a *wink* *nudge* to
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> What?!!! And risk our businesses' profits?
Oh you sweet summer child, businesses won't ever accept lower profits. They'll simply pass the costs on to consumers.
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> The US should start to steer itself away from any dependence on products from antagonistic countries.
So, more money for inferior products just so we can have it say "Hecho en USA" on the label? If you think inflation is bad now, buckle up buckaroos!
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Here is a real security issue: US companies offshoring writing of critical software to China, India, Pakistan, etc.
I still remember a phone conference a few years back that I had with a customer and their US supplier (a major name in the IT area) over the encryption algorithms used in a security critical device mty customer wanted to buy. The lead engineer and his team were dialed in from Shanghai.
If you do crap like that, you really do not need to worry about buying from Chinese manufacturers. You get the
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It really shouldn't matter who writes the software.
That is, however, assuming you get all the source and review it all.
I have a stack of DJi drones (Score:2)
I was given a bunch of these drones from a Department of Defense STEM programme. I use them in my 6th-7th grade Computer 1 class, which is mostly Google Apps and Photoshop, to introduce the kids to programming. They go over well because they give the kids a near-immediate response to what they are doing.
The only reason I find this, what. . . funny, relevant. . . whatever, is because these items were provided by the DOD.
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Way to segue onto an unrelated topic.
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Uhm it is right there in the SUMMARY no need to even click the article, DJI drones spying on Uyghurs is listed as a reason to ban them, meanwhile a much worse human rights situation goes on in Gaza with US supplied weapons. Looking forward to the next article where Israel drones are banned: [1]https://www.c4isrnet.com/newsl... [c4isrnet.com]
[1] https://www.c4isrnet.com/newsletters/unmanned-systems/2023/09/19/israeli-companies-showcase-drones-that-take-off-land-vertically/
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It seems you swallowed the propaganda of someone else, Aljazeera is funded mostly by Qatar:
> Qatar's international profile and active role in international affairs have led some analysts to identify it as a middle power. Since 2022, it has been a major non-NATO ally of the United States
[1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qatar
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So... Qatar is a reliable source of unbiased information now?
Meh (Score:2)
This is, at least to me, not the same as Chinese-controlled social media or networking infrastructure.
It's worth ensuring the control system doesn't phone home or have backdoors - or maybe requiring an open source app so there's less questions of that in the first place, but that's about it.
This is why (Score:3)
you buy a remote control unit for DJI and don't ever update it and never connect it to wifi.
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Right. Because Xi really cares a whole lot about you and your little drone.
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You? No. But it might tell the Chinese government about things like troop movements or when a prominent politician is home.
It's surprising how much usable Intel can be extracted from what looks like garbage data. The real issue is the collecting and processing of so much data to effectively extract that useful data.
FOX News (Score:2)
FOX News is owned by a foreign adversary - the Murdochs - who relentlessly attempt to meddle in American politics. Are we going to force the Murdochs to divest? Do we see DJI attempting to meddle with our political system? Not one iota.
American oligarchs are late stage capitalist pigs who underperform and then cry for government bail outs and protection when another country eats their lunch. And then they have the nerve to cry "socialism!!!" None of the anti-China rhetoric has one iota to do with "nati
Hmmm (Score:2)
Remember when the left got mad that Trump was putting tariffs on Chinese imports and they called it racist? Now their guy is cutting them out altogether!
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> Remember when the left got mad that Trump was putting tariffs on Chinese imports and they called it racist? Now their guy is cutting them out altogether!
Biden was never the guy the left wanted in the first place. The left wanted Bernie. Even Buttigieg was labeled too centrist by the left because he kept going on Fox's town halls and trying to meet the MAGA folks half way.
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What are you trying to say? If this is helping to the US security and banning DJI also helping US security, then there is nothing hypocritical about it. Only logical.
Forced buyout, you mean .... Sell or be banned (Score:2)
Sell it or be banned.
Looks like every Chinese boardroom is in the crosshairs.
Huawei first. Tiktok second.
Is Genshin Impact next?
I have a Mavic Pro (Score:2)
I have not updated the firmware or the app since FAA damaged geofencing locks a some years back. It still works perfectly. I guess I will buy a bunch of extra propellers before the ban goes into effect.
Russia will buy up the surplus stock cheap... (Score:2)
... and equip them with explosives for use in their invasion of Ukraine, for results like this: [1]https://www.theguardian.com/wo... [theguardian.com]
[1] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/26/ukraine-war-briefing-kyiv-pulls-back-abrams-tanks-due-to-drone-raids-and-losses-says-us
This is insane (Score:5, Insightful)
We turned over nearly all of our manufacturing to China and now we are escalating a trade war
They could cause massive harm by cutting off all exports of everything
Even worse, they are smart people. What happens if they develop tech that we need, and refuse to sell it to us?
The trade war has no winners, we all lose
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What if they become hostile and what if the US will be at war with China?
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There be a lot of doubt about both. But claiming "no doubt" about either makes the first more likely. The warmongers are on the march.
There is really no reason we can't have the same cooperative partnership with China we have had for the last 50 years. Except, of course, that they are no longer junior partners and that is unacceptable to our ruling elite that has grown up in control of the "only super power". The notion that the world and its leaders could extend beyond Concord and New Haven is beyond thei
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You mean, China restricts imports and then complains if anyone else does it?
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1. No, it is not. China has no interest in an actual war with the US.
2. No, the US will not "win". Not being able to buy Chinese goods will alone already destroy the US economy. Nothing to "win" left after that.
3. Well. This may have been sarcasm (if so, then badly done).
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> 2. No, the US will not "win". Not being able to buy Chinese goods will alone already destroy the US economy. Nothing to "win" left after that.
The second the shelves at Walmart are empty, people will be pissed. Like vote out the current president pissed.
Never underestimate the ability of Republicans to propose something they know the Democrats are stupid enough to go along with, and the Democrats will be the ones taking the bulk of the blame. I'm fairly certain that was their plan with TikTok, too.
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How many wars has China begun in the last 50 years? How many military invasions has the United States initiated? The audacity of the United States declaring that China is a threat to world peace is simply mind-boggling. We have spent trillions of dollars on Pax Americana military adventurism that could have been invested in domestic industry and infrastructure. Which is exactly what China has done. It is no wonder that they are positioned to eat our lunch. Are we going to compete like good little free
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> How many wars has China begun in the last 50 years?
First, define 'war'. Then, there's Viet Nam, Tibet, the South China Sea. Plus numerous instances of head-butting with India on their shared border.
> How many military invasions has the United States initiated?
Many. But in each instance, have we maintained an occupation of that territory?
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"But in each instance, have we maintained an occupation of that territory?"
No, we usually lost. Like in Vietnam. Or Afghanistan. Or Iraq. Or Syria. or .... We are still in Germany and Japan where we won. And Korea, which ended in a stalemate. And Syria and Iraq for that matter although we long since lost control in either. I think the argument that China's border clashes with Vietnam and India or tensions in the South China Sea are remotely comparable is silly. Tibet has been part of China for several centu
Re:This is insane (Score:5, Insightful)
> Even worse, they are smart people. What happens if they develop tech that we need, and refuse to sell it to us?
Apparently they're not THAT smart...to date, pretty much all they've done (with our blessing) is steal our US tech and use it against us....
Right now, it is best we do EVERYTHING we can to extricate ourselves from this bad relationship with China and move as much manufacturing as we can back domestically.
At least, move it to other, more friendly countries and not just one.....we need to learn our lessons from COVID....and not let those memories fade away as that we only got a SMALL taste of how bad it could get being dependent of China...or anyone other one country other than being as self sufficient as possible with regard to our manufacturing and food supply....oh and energy.
Re:This is insane (Score:4, Insightful)
> Apparently they're not THAT smart...to date, pretty much all they've done (with our blessing) is steal our US tech and use it against us....
That has been over for quite a while. You seem to have been deep asleep while the world changed. Europe still has some things they might want to copy, but anything the US can make, China can make as well these days. And they sometimes can make it better.
No, I am not a fan of China. But underestimating an opponent is a really, really stupid mistake.
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> That has been over for quite a while. You seem to have been deep asleep while the world changed. Europe still has some things they might want to copy, but anything the US can make, China can make as well these days. And they sometimes can make it better.
I work at a research university in the U.S. I find your claim that China doesn't care about acquiring U.S. technology to be absolutely hilarious.
I could tell you one story after another, up to and including the not-so-subtle six-figure bribes my colleagues
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Consumer goods? Sure.
Machinery, industrial equipment, and so on? Not even close on the high end.
But it's within spitting distance for midrange, and enough for almost applications, at a fraction of the cost.
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When it comes to food and energy, we are net exporters of both. We grow enough food to cover our population and we generate enough electricity and drill enough oil to also support our population. The real problem is those things are "commodities" and are traded globally, which hurts US consumers since our own companies don't really have much of an obligation to sell to us if they can sell to another country for more money.
Regarding manufacturing. Yes, we've sent much of it out of the country and we should b
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> Apparently they're not THAT smart...to date, pretty much all they've done (with our blessing) is steal our US tech and use it against us....
Spoken like someone who has not flown a DJI drone. Their consumer products are way ahead of anything any US manufacturer is offering at the same price point.
Back in the day, [1]the opening scene in The Birdcage [youtube.com] required a helicopter and expensive camera equipment, and today that expensive rig is arguably inferior to what you'd get from a [2]DJI Mini 3 Pro. [youtube.com] Hell, trying to recreate the helicopter portion of that opening scene with my Mavic Air is still on my bucket list of things to do next time I make a trip to
[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DV3aHWCB7e4
[2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSjobG1dEgY
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What tech did DJI steal from US drone manufacturers exactly? China makes cheaper high-quality drones that US consumers want to buy. What is the magic word for that kind of free-market competition again? Ummm, oh that's right - COMMUNISM! Now since we are losing let's go running to big daddy government and ask for some help like good little capitalists.
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I can't help thinking about a hidden agenda. Manufacturing moved to China so we now pay American prices for Chinese products sold by American companies. Due to the internet and business developments, consumers can sometimes buy Chinese products from Chinese companies at Chinese prices which are often a small fraction of the American price. Incidentally, Chinese products are much more likely to be repair friendly and have good availability of off the shelf 3rd party replacement parts.
I have to wonder how muc
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> I can't help thinking about a hidden agenda.
The hidden agenda is that the government hates hobbyist photography drone pilots. Part of it is because a handful of morons do stupid things with them (disrupting flights and sportsball games, and crashing them in inaccessible places then leaving them as e-litter), and the other part is likely that commercial drone delivery companies want exclusive access to the airspace and have been lobbying to that effect.
DJI more-or-less has a monopoly over the consumer photography drone market, so a ban essentially en
We're just moving it to India (Score:2)
so that we can start a cold war. Russia has dropped off as a threat now that they can't take a nation the size of California and the GDP of Mississippi. EVs will gradually make the middle east irrelevant too.
Without a threat they'll be a winding down our military spending, so China's on tap. For their part I'm sure they could use a little of the old MIC to keep their economy going. Not the best way to do socialism but I guess it works after a fashion.
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Indeed. This is completely insane. This whole trade war has the stink of desperation on the US side.
Top 10 American Companies in China (Score:1)
1. KFC
2. Apple
3. Tesla
4. Nike
5. Starbucks
6. P&G
7. Walmart
8. Coca Cola
9. Boeing
10. Microsoft
How long before one of them gets a notice to hand over their keys?
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Apple and Tesla are only allowed to keep their source code closed, all uploaded data has to go through a Pooh controlled company in clear text.
Project Texas is almost what Pooh forced on Apple and Tesla (except that ByteDance and thus Pooh would still have control over the subsidiary, for hiring for instance, Apple and Tesla have no real control over their Chinese datacenters). Apple and Tesla are special in that regard, China simply banned all other companies with similar levels of access to Chinese citize
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> All of us who buy made in China because it's cheaper are at fault.
We wouldn't need to buy cheaper products if wages weren't such shit. At its core, the problem is greedy American businesses valuing maximum profit above all else.
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We honestly need corrective action to bring some manufacturing back to the US, if not here then at least to other parts of the world.
We already lost because we willingly off-shored all our manufacturing* in a manner of a few decades.
Why would they cut off all exports, that harms their own industry.
* 'To hell in a hand basket'.
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Appeasement through trade was a dangerous game, will it get less dangerous by appeasing harder?
The private data of every naive American citizens an open book to a dictator, what's next? A defacto allied democracy abandoned to the dictatorship? Force an outright allied nation to grant them disputed land?
Kissinger's realpolitik has become real messy.