Two Boeing Whistleblowers Allege Disregarded Worker Concerns, Pressure For Speed (npr.org)
- Reference: 0173516178
- News link: https://tech.slashdot.org/story/24/04/14/0012214/two-boeing-whistleblowers-allege-disregarded-worker-concerns-pressure-for-speed
- Source link: https://www.npr.org/2024/04/09/1243770423/boeing-whistleblower-787-faa-investigation
> Longtime Boeing engineer Sam Salehpour went public Tuesday with claims that he observed problems with how parts of the plane's fuselage were fastened together. Salehpour warns that production "shortcuts" could significantly shorten the lifespan of the plane, eventually causing the fuselage to fall apart in mid-flight. "It can cause a catastrophic failure," Salehpour said Tuesday during a press briefing to discuss his claims.
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> A spokesman for the FAA confirmed that the agency is investigating those allegations, which were first reported by the New York Times, but declined to comment further on them. Boeing immediately pushed back. "These claims about the structural integrity of the 787 are inaccurate and do not represent the comprehensive work Boeing has done to ensure the quality and long-term safety of the aircraft," Boeing spokeswoman Jessica Kowal said in a statement. "We are fully confident in the 787 Dreamliner."
Salehpour and his lawyers argue that Boeing has never adequately addressed production flaws discovered in 2021 (which included [2]unacceptable gaps between the fuselage panels ), according to the article. "Instead, he says the company took 'shortcuts' by applying greater force to fit segments of the fuselage together."
> "Boeing hid the problem by pushing the pieces together with force to make it appear like that the gap didn't exist," Salehpour told reporters at Tuesday's press briefing. Salehpour says he repeatedly raised these concerns with management, but instead of addressing them, they transferred him to work on a different plane, the 777, where he alleges he saw similar problems. "I literally saw people jumping on the pieces of the airplane to get them to align," he said. "That's not how you build a plane."
In [3]a follow-up piece , NPR reports that former Boeing mechanic Davin Fischer "says he spoke up — and paid a steep price for it."
> He says Boeing's leaders were constantly pushing to speed up production. "Hey, we need to go faster, faster, faster," Fischer said. "They cared more about shareholders and investors than they did planes, their employees, anything." When Fischer finally pushed back, he says he was demoted in retaliation, and then fired from the company in 2019. Fischer says many of his friends who still work at Boeing are afraid to speak out. "People there are scared, a hundred percent," he said. "Because they don't want to get fired."
NPR also cites the example of longtime quality manager John Barnett, who said in [4]a 2019 interview with Ralph Nader that his managers at Boeing retaliated against him by docking his pay and creating a hostile environment.
[1] https://www.npr.org/2024/04/09/1243770423/boeing-whistleblower-787-faa-investigation
[2] https://www.npr.org/2022/02/15/1080930976/faa-toughens-oversight-of-boeings-787-dreamliner
[3] https://www.npr.org/2024/04/12/1244147895/boeing-whistleblower-retaliation-shortcuts-787-dreamliner
[4] https://www.ralphnaderradiohour.com/p/boeing-787-dreamliner-hundreds-of-fdf
I don't have all the answers but... (Score:1)
...if engineers were in charge of quality and safety instead of accountants and suits I seriously doubt these problems would have been tolerated.
Re: (Score:3)
Wall Street engineered a merger with McDonnell Douglas to get McDonnell Douglas' "management talent" (aka accountants and suits) so that engineers wouldn't be in charge of quality and safety.
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Such idiotic moves probably made the assholes behind them a lot of money short-term, but long-term they are excessively expensive for everybody. Essentially a form of corruption.
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Engineers understand things and want to do a good job. Suits just want to line their pockets. From my observation, suits are usually not that smart either. I think any engineering out fit should have c-levels that are mandated by law to be engineers (and no crap like a BA with no significant engineering experience), except where another specialty is needed, e.g. for the CFO. And then, personal criminal liability from the CEO on downwards for bad engineering practices that are not being addressed.
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> I think any engineering out fit should have c-levels that are mandated by law to be engineers
It won't help. "Ambitious" management types will just see that as another obstacle, and then will feel more entitled to riches because they've "worked so hard for them."
Logical, inevitable outcome (Score:3)
This is where allowing and even actively encouraging the practice of cost externalization gets us. The terrible things that Boeing and other companies do in the name of profit, are unlikely to result in the financial ruin of the companies, nor in the imprisonment of the decision makers.
They're also unlikely to result in prison time for the perpetrators. Instead, the consciences of the workers who stay silent are plagued by fear and shame, and the lives of those who do speak out are ruined. In one recent instance, it seems almost certain that a whistleblower was killed for doing the morally right and responsible thing.
Allowing corporations to get away with poisonings, maimings, and homicides both involuntary and voluntary, is just business as usual. We need to find a way to change that. Sadly, I don't know how.
Guess who's gonna be flipping burgers at McD (Score:2)
for the rest of his working life?
> Longtime Boeing engineer Sam Salehpour went public Tuesday [...]
I admire him for doing that. He essentially torpedoed his entire career for the sake of doing the right thing.
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The FAA needs him, and people like him.
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If there were any respectable manufacturers left after all of this consolidation, they might hire him simply to make the point that they have high standards.
As it stands, he's going to have to try to get a job at the FAA.
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I'd initially thought of Airbus, but he'd have to relocate to France or Germany and the FAA would probably be a better fit.
The disadvantages of Airbus would be: language (although I think the official language at work would be English), and Boeing would then start floating the claim that he'd been planning to move all along and that the complaints were to damage his old employer and build up the new one.
So how out of the ordinary is jumping on it? (Score:3)
I'm reminded of the workers with small rubber hammers doing final alignment of body panels in car factories, these fuselage panels will have a lot more deformation than that. Simply lining up the rivet holes probably takes a fair bit of judiciously applied force and humans are relatively cheap and very flexible robots to solve such problems.
How much force is too much? How much gap is too much? If he did the simulations to determine how much is too much his opinion are relevant, if he was just on the line and didn't think it was reasonable it doesn't necessarily mean much.
Enough is Enough (Score:2)
Procedure be damned...it sounds like this was malicious enough the government should shut down all production, lock everyone out of the buildings, and go over them with a fine tooth comb. Everyone that pushed profits over safety needs to be jailed.
These mega-corps need to fear the government and not have it's dick sucked by it. We the people are the ones to pay for this, not the CEOs, not the legislators.
Every Boeing exec needs to be detained and questioned. We the people will take pleas of the fifth as cov
Want action? (Score:2)
Pass a law requiring every C-level executive, congressperson, and senator to conduct all personal and business travel over an 1 or 2 hour car drive on carriers who use their product.
I suggested personal travel as they would surely find a way to book business travel using personal time ( think âoeCancun Cruzâ ).
If they give a shit about their own or their family's safety, quality will improve.
Lattitude (Score:2)
This is why I'm very, very nervous that there is too much leniency for automated driving companies that cause injuries and damage due to situations that are really very basic driving edge cases. It seems they are allowed to go into the public before they are ready. I can only assume it is because it is in their own best interests.
As Always (Score:3)
As always, it never ends well for whistleblowers, no matter where you work. A WEB search will show may (majority?) of cases were the whistleblower's life is ruined.
Lets hope this time Boeing's penalty is high enough to make it change its ways. And maybe a bit of real jail time for execs that allowed this to happen. Maybe that will change the US "Wall Street First" Culture.
Re: As Always (Score:2)
It seems when you challenge government contractors like Boeing and whistleblow on the current decay of such entities in an election year, you may end up committing suicide.
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Sounds like a "shithole" country. I had no idea the US was this far gone already.
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> Sounds like a "shithole" country. I had no idea the US was this far gone already.
The phrase is "Fundamentally Transform."
From a country that was working okay-ish, to one that isn't working at all .
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You're never gonna change the culture, not with a fine.
Re:As Always (Score:4, Insightful)
> Lets hope this time Boeing's penalty is high enough to make it change its ways. And maybe a bit of real jail time for execs that allowed this to happen. Maybe that will change the US "Wall Street First" Culture.
In the US system it is always easier to bribe your way out of trouble than it is to make changes and it's neither hard nor expensive to do so. Now, if anybody thinks I'm unfairly criticising the US here I'm not. Have any of the people that almost crashed the world economy back in 2007-8 served a day in jail? Anywhere in the world? The last time I looked it was 47 of them. Out of these 27 were convicted in Iceland, 11 in Spain, 7 in the Irish Republic. Everywhere else the list does not top one individual and that includes the USA. These people are protected and punishing them would set a 'dangerous precedent'. Boeing executives will bail out of Boeing in a jewel encrusted golden parachute straight into a gated community in one of US America's internal tax havens and live a life in the lap of luxury never wasting a single thought on the people who died in the 737 crashes because they'll break too busy bribing their idiot kids' way into an Ivy League college and coming up with some new and more innovative way of destroying what's left of the US manufacturing industry.
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The sad part is people will die. Americans will pay the price. We will be punished.
The bad actors will only be rewarded.
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Yep. There is evil in the world. This is what it looks like.
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> There is evil in the world.
Just to make sure... The purpose of the post you reply to was to highlight the specific evil in the USA system as opposed to other countries in the world. Jail sentences were applied to bank executives in the cited countries, see here for Iceland [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... [wikipedia.org]
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008%E2%80%932011_Icelandic_financial_crisis#Judgments
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> As always, it never ends well for whistleblowers, no matter where you work. A WEB search will show may (majority?) of cases were the whistleblower's life is ruined.
Unfortunately often true. But whistleblowers are usually not in it for the fame, instead they are typically deeply offended by what they see and are willing to take a personal risk to make things change. The often found cave-man style "shoot the messenger" management cannot deal with that and hence tries to retaliate.
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People don't come forward against their employer hoping for a medal. They're being responsible and honorable, and duty always costs the dutiful. No matter what your job title is, you're a human being first or not at all.
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> As always, it never ends well for whistleblowers
Did it not end well for the whistelblower? I mean we're talking about someone who was quite discontent with his job and the direction of the company, also disagreeing with management. For better or worse, you are an employee. Pushing back against management hard is evidence that you're not working to the benefit of the company and should be fired. Additionally having a management team not willing to see reason isn't conducive to a good working environment.
The issue here isn't that he got fired for whistlebl
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And yet still record pay for the c-suite [1]https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/05... [cnn.com] I would love to have a job where I performed this badly and I was given even more money. These guys should be locked up for endangering people. They are just lucky they have not killed anyone yet in making all these bad decisions.
[1] https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/05/business/boeing-ceo-pay/index.html
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If you are concerned, you can whistleblow directly to the government. Then your company will never find out until the court case is already in progress.