Reactions to Arch Linux's New Guided Installer (linuxreviews.org)
- Reference: 0144877144
- News link: https://linux.slashdot.org/story/21/04/10/1755241/reactions-to-arch-linuxs-new-guided-installer
- Source link: https://linuxreviews.org/The_Latest_Arch_Linux_ISO_Has_A_Fresh_New_Guided_Installer
> The community distribution Arch Linux has up to now required you to manually install it by entering a whole lot of scary commands in a terminal. Arch version 2021.04.01 [2]features a new guided installer [reached by] typing python -m archinstall guided into the console you get when you boot the Arch Linux installation ISO.
>
> It is not very novice-friendly, or user-friendly, but it gets the job done and it will work fine for those with some basic GNU/Linux knowledge.
Tech Radar writes that previously Arch Linux [3]had "a rather convoluted installation process , which has given rise to a stream of [4]Arch-based distros that are easier to install," adding that the new installer "was reportedly promoted as an official installation mechanism back in January, and was actively worked upon leading to its inclusion in the installation medium."
> Users have been calling on Arch Linux for simplifying the installation process for a long time, to bring it in line with other Linux distros. However, the Arch philosophy has always been to put the users in charge of every aspect of their installation, which is the antithesis of automated installers.
Phoronix calls the new installer " [5]very quick and easy ," although "granted not as user-friendly / polished as say the Debian Installer, Red Hat's Anaconda installer, even Ubuntu's Subiquity, and other TUI/GUI Linux installers out there." They also note that Archinstall "does allow automatically partitioning the drive with your choice of file-system options, automatically installing a desktop environment if desired, configuring the network interfaces, and all the other basics."
> The method is quick enough that I'll likely use archinstall for future Arch Linux benchmarks on Phoronix as it also then applies a sane set of defaults for users... Five minutes or less and off to the races, ready for Arch Linux."
But Slashdot reader [6]I75BJC still favors "scary commands in a terminal," leaving [7]this comment on the original submission :
> If you can't type with the big adults, stay on your PlayStation.
>
> Even Apple, with its very good GUI has a command line. The command line commands are more flexible, more specific, more subtle than the pointy-clicky GUI.
[1] https://slashdot.org/~xiando
[2] https://linuxreviews.org/The_Latest_Arch_Linux_ISO_Has_A_Fresh_New_Guided_Installer
[3] https://www.techradar.com/news/arch-linux-looks-to-make-installation-nice-and-simple
[4] https://www.techradar.com/best/best-arch-based-linux-distros
[5] https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Arch-Linux-Does-Archinstall
[6] https://slashdot.org/~I75BJC
[7] https://slashdot.org/comments.pl?cid=61238310&sid=18609120&tid=384
Why Windows 10 gets away with telemetry (Score:1, Insightful)
Is because Linux users insist on it being hard to use. I've followed Linux for 20 years. Still the same arguments. Microsoft knows it has a monopoly on normal users. Even "user friendly" distros expect you to know things like partitions and bootloaders, With Windows 10 you just insert a usb drive into the computer, turn on and follow the installer. The only technical part is entering the product key but most computers have the product key written to the firmware anyway.
Nope. (Score:5, Informative)
> Even "user friendly" distros expect you to know things like partitions and bootloaders,
If you tried Ubuntu sometime in the last decade then you would know that's not true.
> Why Windows 10 gets away with telemetry Is because Linux users insist on it being hard to use.
This actually has little to do with it. If 100% of computers sold came with a specific Linux distro installed then people would be using that Linux distro. It's truly that simple. That Linux distro would receive significant attention and be improved.
You need to understand the "good enough" principle of nature to really grasp why people will stick with something even if there is a better alternative.
Re: Nope. (Score:3, Funny)
I just wanted to comment on your comments about comments on a repost of comments about an article to say: I agree with you.
Re: (Score:2)
And that isnt even it either. The reason why Windows continues to rule even with the stupid anti-consumer decisions that they make (DRM, telemetry and the like) is because Microsoft bows to two masters. They have to balance the companies versus the users. They get corporate support because they bow to the companies and allow trackers and API's that give companies what they want to track users of their software. Bascially company condoned malware that treats the owner of the devices as if they are bad. Linux
Re:Why Windows 10 gets away with telemetry (Score:4, Informative)
Here's what partitioning looks like on Ubuntu: "This computer currently has no detected operating systems. What would you like to do?" The first option, selected by default: "Erase disk and install Ubuntu".
How much lower does the bar need to be?
Re: (Score:3)
That's actually simpler than Windows. I'm pretty sure you have to know to click on "unpartitioned space" before proceeding. Really, the Windows installer is actively hostile. You have to know when to unplug the network cable or enter airplane mode if you want a local user account.
Re: (Score:2)
All true but most people get windows with their PC, it's already installed, and they are meant to reinstall it from a recovery partition or media which does all the thinking for them.
Re: (Score:3)
i have had quite a few non computer savvy people install Ubuntu by clicking Next->Next->Next, enter their name and their password and that's it. No product key even. These people can barely find their way around Windows are MacOS
Re: (Score:2)
> Is because Linux users insist on it being hard to use.
I wouldn't say Linux users insist on it being hard. It's as hard as it needs to be. And it does have numerous advantages, speed being one. And you tell the computer exactly what to do. It's the Linux "Secret Weapon".
Users do not install OS, they buy preloads (Score:2)
Ordinary users don't care how easy (or not, Windows is often more effort and requires activation) an OS is to install. They discard the device and upgrade instead. PCs being trivially cheap that actually makes sense for non-techies.
Re: (Score:2)
Uh well with a Linux installation you don't need to fumble for a product key. Also, I dunno which distro requires you to know what a partition or bootloader is. Installing Linux is easier than Windows. The bad part in Linux is the lack of games (100% the result of Microsoft's monopoly -- not anything to do with tech)and MS Office .. though in reality Google Docs or Open Office is good enough for 90% of people.
Linux users are just being elitist #sorrynotsorry (Score:1)
TL:DR Command lines can be easily replaced/enhanced in most cases. Linux has low distribution to the general public because Linux deliberately goes out of its way to be difficult to use, in the name of elitism.
A command line is great, powerful, and super useful. It is also completely unnecessary for 99% of use cases. "If you don't know how to use a command line, go get a baby computer" Really? This is exactly the problem for Linux getting widely adopted by the mainstream, Linux "proponents", who are worse t
options (Score:2)
I can remember a Mac user asking me how to change his local password. I looked at him for a sec, went to the command line and used passwd. As long as there are options then everyone can make it work, gotta start somewhere.
The main challenge that Linux faces on the desktop (Score:3)
is that Windows comes preinstalled on the vast majority of home computers. So in order to run Linux you have to first find a distribution that you want to run (out of literally hundreds, maybe thousands of them). For most new users that's going to be Ubuntu or Linux Mint. Then you have to download the ISO file and burn it on to a USB drive. Not copy it, burn it there so that it is bootable. Then you have to reboot the computer, with the USB plugged in, and hope your ISO image boots up. If not you have to go to the BIOS and make a few changes and try again. And so on and so on. All of this even before you even get to the installer the article mentions.
For an experienced, and determined, computer user all of this is doable. But can you imagine Aunt Mable doing this? Neither can I.
Now I've been running Linux on my home computer for years and the installer is by far the easiest part of the whole thing. Once you get it all installed and set up the way you like it's just incredible how fast, smooth and stable it is. But most people haven't got the knowledge or desire to go through what it takes to get there.
I kind of have mixed feelings about this new easier installer for Arch. Yes it opens it up to a larger audience but in days past it was a badge of honor to get Arch installed. It wasn't easy and it's not supposed to be. The beauty of it is that you can configure it to be exactly what you want it to be - server, gaming rig, music production, you name it.
My advise to most people is that if you want to try something Arch based then try Manjaro. It's very easy to install and they use all the right packages. It is fast and stable. If you want to install pure Arch it's probably best to do it in a VM a few times until you get it down and then try it on bare metal.
Re: (Score:3)
I honestly don't get the 'arch is hard' way of thinking
Literally all I do these days is run pacman -Syu once every few days and everything just works. If anything Arch is making me dumber because I simply have no issues to solve any more! (though granted I don't do anything fancy or have unusual hardware - YMMV)
I think the bigger challenge (Score:2)
is that every time Linux on the Desktop has a chance of becoming a thing Microsoft leans on the OEM partners and they either stop or get run out of business.
Sure, there's a few niche players too small for anyone to notice or care, but if anyone even as big as Acer dips their toes in their done for. Microsoft pulls their OEM contracts and they're toast.
The real challenge is our complete lack of anti trust law enforcement.
Re: (Score:2)
Yup totally agree. In a fair system the consumer would have the choice of OS but as you point out, Microsoft turns the screws on their competitors every chance they get. There are a few systems you can get with Linux preinstalled but those are few and far between.
The good news is that once you have done a few Linux installs it's really pretty easy. Video cards and Network cards not working are a thing of the past. It's fast, secure and stable. The only time I use Windows is at work and it sucks but I hold m
Re: (Score:2)
I find laptops are still a little bit hit and miss. Like I've never had a big issue, but I feel like I always have to go and do quite a bit of research before I buy something. If I ask for advice it's always 'buy a used Thinkpad' which is quite annoying. In fact the most difficulty I ever had with a laptop was trying to install Arch on an Acer Ryzen one I got my kid; that just didn't work at all and I ended up installing Kubuntu or something.
Having said, that using an HP Elitebook from work right now and it
Slashdot reader I75BJC (Score:2)
got his knickers in a twist.
One thing is for certain (Score:2)
IBM makes COBOL compiler for x86...
ARCH now comes with an installer.
That's it. The world ends tomorrow. Don't bother packing.
And this is good? (Score:1)
> required you to manually install it by entering a whole lot of scary commands in a terminal.
> It is not very novice-friendly, or user-friendly,
> a rather convoluted installation process,
> Users have been calling on Arch Linux for simplifying the installation process...to bring it in line with other Linux distros.
> Five minutes or less and off to the races, ready for Arch Linux.
There was a time when learning something was not frowned upon, when the feared Slackware was actually one of the smoothest installs ever if you read at a third-grade level and just jumped in, and it didn't give you migraines like the dpkg screen. Or just lock up like Mandrake or Red Hat. There's probably a thousand live/dying/dead distros out there and most of them are on the same three teats, only the optics change. I suppose if you just want to "run Linux" and get the girls, fine. But by avoiding a little
Re: (Score:2)
Hey Slackware is still out there and actively maintained by the original author. The -current branch is more of a rolling release at this point.
Re: (Score:2)
> I suppose if you just want to "run Linux" and get the girls, fine.
I already tried Debian, Ubuntu, Slackware, Crux, Arch, Gentoo, CentOS, Red Hat, Mandrake - what am I doing wrong?
Re: (Score:3)
I actually miss the older style gui installers where you picked all your options and which packages you wanted to install first, then let 'er rip. I guess asking too many questions up front was seen as intimidating to newbies.
Re: (Score:2)
Having tried archinstall and Manjaro Architect, I really prefer architect as it gives all the control and customizability of a bespoke installation, yet a 5 minute installer. Don’t get me wrong, I like how simple archinstall is and it is a very good starting point.
Re: (Score:2)
Manual installation methods are still around for various distributions. If you want to use them, and for some weird hardware combinations it is probably necessary, they are still available. But it's generally nice to be able to click-click-click your way through a simple install on a straightforward system, too.
Re: (Score:2)
This is a pretty common pattern among installers. You give users two paths in the GUI: Quick and Advanced. Anyone who doesn't know what they're doing can pick Quick, and just answer minimal questions: Locale, Timezone, Username, Password, etc... More experienced users can pick from most common options experienced users might require, like selecting filesystems or partitions, or use sensible defaults if they don't know what a particular option does. Advanced users can do what they want on the CLI.