News: 0133360554

  ARM Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day, but set fire to him and he's warm for the rest of his life (Terry Pratchett, Jingo)

Trump Administration Rescinds Rule on Foreign Students (apnews.com)

(Tuesday July 14, 2020 @07:30PM (msmash) from the breaking-news dept.)


Facing eight federal lawsuits and [1]opposition from hundreds of universities , the Trump administration on Tuesday [2]rescinded a rule that would have [3]required international students to transfer or leave the country if their schools held classes entirely online because of the pandemic. From a report:

> The decision was announced at the start of a hearing in a federal lawsuit in Boston brought by Harvard University and the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. U.S. District Judge Allison Burroughs said federal immigration authorities agreed to pull the July 6 directive and "return to the status quo." A lawyer representing the Department of Homeland Security and U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement said only that the judge's characterization was correct.

>

> The announcement brings relief to thousands of foreign students who had been at risk of being deported from the country, along with hundreds of universities that were scrambling to reassess their plans for the fall in light of the policy. Under the policy, international students in the U.S. would have been forbidden from taking all their courses online this fall. New visas would not have been issued to students at schools planning to provide all classes online, which includes Harvard. Students already in the U.S. would have faced deportation if they didn't transfer schools or leave the country voluntarily.



[1] https://news.slashdot.org/story/20/07/08/1647226/mit-and-harvard-sue-dhs-and-ice-over-international-student-rule

[2] https://apnews.com/38b6562b7aaa73ea66fb72b06472e05d

[3] https://news.slashdot.org/story/20/07/06/2333254/foreign-students-must-leave-the-us-if-their-universities-transition-to-online-only-learning

Re: (Score:2)

by quonset ( 4839537 )

> Say what you will, Donald Trump is a man of his word.

> HAW HAW HAW HAW

True. He said he'd run the country like he runs his companies. Into the ground and saddled with debt.

Re: (Score:2)

by garyisabusyguy ( 732330 )

C'mon mod this up!

Do not allow the trump astro turfers to own these boards

Re: We have the best people (Score:3, Insightful)

by backslashdot ( 95548 )

Trump has fired many of his own appointments (too many to list) and yet nobody calls him on that and his foolish blind supporters keep insisting he has great judgement.

Re: We have the best people (Score:2)

by backslashdot ( 95548 )

Also need to point out that Trump has judged others by that standard .. remember when he said Jeb Bush was lacking judgement because his brother nominated John Roberts to the supreme court.

Re: We have the best people (Score:4, Insightful)

by ranton ( 36917 )

> Trump has fired many of his own appointments (too many to list) and yet nobody calls him on that and his foolish blind supporters keep insisting he has great judgement.

Plenty of people call him on that. Just not his supporters. They either tend to not call him on anything or claim a false equivalency that most politicians do it at a similar scale. Trump isn't trying to win over people who care about this kind of stuff. He wants to rile up his base and suppress voting overall. The unfortunate thing is this really is a winning strategy, just hopefully not this time.

Re: (Score:2)

by Darinbob ( 1142669 )

And it's win-win here for Trump. First, he denied the foreign students, which makes the anti-immigrant wing of his base very happy, then now he can say he was pressured by the liberal elite to change this ruling against his will, which makes the liberals-are-destroying-us wing riled up. Meanwhile, he bad mouths Fauci for flip-flopping because evidence has changed over time, but he'd fine with flip-flopping himself because it's only bad if other people do it.

(Flip-flopping is just the dumbest sort of polit

Re: (Score:2)

by v1 ( 525388 )

The concept of "advisor" is totally lost on him, he only keeps the 'advisors' that do and say what he tells them to do. There's a saying, "A good leader surrounds himself with people smarter than he is." He's convinced he knows it all, he doesn't, and he's in charge. God help us all...

Re: We have the best people (Score:1)

by tmmagee ( 1475877 )

Some counter examples: George Washington, Abraham Lincoln, Martin Luther King, Ghandi, Jesus... Angela Merkel, the current leader of the free world, is also a good counter example. Did you just mean totalitarian leaders?

Re: (Score:2)

by garyisabusyguy ( 732330 )

Sure, if you want to live in a world ruled by despots like the House of Medici

Re: (Score:2)

by quonset ( 4839537 )

Why would he keep appointments that turned out to be shitty?

What do you mean shitty? He picked them! These were the best people. The best. He praised each and every one of them right up until the moment they contradicted him with facts and legalities.

If he'd held on to them all, everyone would say "Trump can't admit when he's wrong".

People already say that because he can't. Never. He's even admitted he will only apologize [1]if he's wrong and he's never wrong [thehill.com].

[1] https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/253465-trump-i-would-apologize-if-i-was-ever-wrong

Re: (Score:2)

by garyisabusyguy ( 732330 )

Occam's razor, the people are there to scapegoat and get rid of, that is their only purpose beyond praising trump

Great News (Score:2)

by stikves ( 127823 )

Many of the students would be punished for events outside their control. I was once on a student visa, and I remember how difficult it was to balance coursework and always living at the edge of poverty. Once all said and done, I was able to get a full time job, and now can contribute to the society.

Most of these people would want to do the same. They came here for a good education, and usually stay because it is a great country. But they now have to endure the additional burden of the covid lockdown without

Re: Great News (Score:2)

by Albanach ( 527650 )

It won't help a large number of students though. Embassies remain closed for regular visas and the border remains closed to much of the world. If you don't already have a visa and aren't already in the United States, there's still a host of obstacles in your path.

Re: (Score:2)

by NotTheSame ( 6161704 )

Are many other countries issuing visas to new international students? It's not an issue that's exclusive to the US.

Re: (Score:2)

by LynnwoodRooster ( 966895 )

> Many of the students would be punished for events outside their control.

Welcome to the real world, where business owners and employees of small businesses have been punished for events outside their control.

BS (Score:3, Insightful)

by Shaitan ( 22585 )

"The announcement brings relief to thousands of foreign students who had been at risk of being deported from the country, along with hundreds of universities that were scrambling to reassess their plans for the fall in light of the policy."

This is all just universities banking on facilitating insourcing via loopholes in student visa policy. Not enough h1bs to displace your US workers to dilute salaries as much as you'd like, np, just have them get the usual diploma mill degree and then jump on a fast track MA/PHD scam from a respectable US University at the highest possible rate. When they are done their advanced degree facilitates keeping them on more stable ongoing basis.

Re: (Score:2)

by swillden ( 191260 )

> "The announcement brings relief to thousands of foreign students who had been at risk of being deported from the country, along with hundreds of universities that were scrambling to reassess their plans for the fall in light of the policy."

> This is all just universities banking on facilitating insourcing via loopholes in student visa policy. Not enough h1bs to displace your US workers to dilute salaries as much as you'd like, np, just have them get the usual diploma mill degree and then jump on a fast track MA/PHD scam from a respectable US University at the highest possible rate. When they are done their advanced degree facilitates keeping them on more stable ongoing basis.

Your thesis here is that this enables companies to obtain foreign workers without having to use the H1-B system... but you're wrong because in order to hire those workers for more than a short time after school, they have to get H1-Bs. Student visas allow them to work for a year after graduation, with a usually-granted optional two-year extension for STEM degrees, but they can't transition to a green card directly from a student visa. The normal route for MA/PhD grads after using up their student visa work

Great news! (Score:2, Insightful)

by DogDude ( 805747 )

King Orange has done everything he can to hurt the US, but I believe that other than killing a few hundred thousand Americans, this would have been the worst. The damage would have been incalculable, and would have lasted for decades. We'd lose our best and brightest for decades. Also, all of the companies that are in the US employing these people, would have left as well. I'm not a foreign student, but most of the best students that I know are foreign. I'm having a big beer to celebrate this!

Re: (Score:2)

by UnknowingFool ( 672806 )

More like the administration put out actions without a plan and then refused to answer basic questions about enforcement. The challenge by multiple universities was to get clarification on the rules. Instead of providing any clarification, the administration just waived a flag and gave up.

Re: (Score:2)

by quonset ( 4839537 )

We'd lose our best and brightest for decades.

You're missing the point. That was his goal all along (aside from getting those foreigners out of this country). He, along with many Republicans, don't want an educated people. That would undermine their goal of repeating the lie that cutting taxes for the 1% and multi-billion dollar corporations will lead to higher wages, or that it's those socialists who want people to have better paying jobs.

Considering Republicans like to claim they go back to Thomas Jeffe

Damage is already done. (Score:4)

by 140Mandak262Jamuna ( 970587 )

China sends hundreds of thousands of students to US Univs to do undergrad paying full international tuition. They form a significant source of revenue for the universities. These students are usually children of ultra rich people who dress like models and drive super expensive cars. India too sends such rich students but not in that many numbers. Indian students are usually fro graduate schools hoping to snag a H1B with a US Masters degree.

The hostility shown by the current administration has scared off most of them. The number of nephews and nieces calling from India asking for advice in picking grad schools and programs have dwindled to nothing. My US born nephews and nieces are reporting most of their Chinese classmates have said they are not coming back.

My classmates who went into academia are reporting that most top US univs are opening campuses outside USA. Mostly in the Middle East.

The US university system took centuries to build. First the Oil Companies politicized the academia in the global warming fight. Then populist Republicans took general pot shots at it. Then outright hostility and undermining by this administration. Built over centuries, destroyed in a decade.

The full Faith and Credit of the USA also too centuries to build. Republican brinkmanship with debt ceiling and casual talk about default nearly destroyed it. Now with 3 trillion dollar stimulus per quarter it too might come undone.

Like the line in Catch 22, "Rome was destroyed. Greece was destroyed. All the Great Civilizations of the World were destroyed. Why not yours too?"

Re: (Score:1)

by inode_buddha ( 576844 )

" These students are usually children of ultra rich people who dress like models and drive super expensive cars. India too sends such rich students but not in that many numbers. "

What do the RWNJ's say about that? After all, they are the ones screaming the loudest about the Chinese being communist.

Re: (Score:1)

by inode_buddha ( 576844 )

Actually no, Biden was getting money from the Ukraine. You didn't hear Hillary say anything about that....

Personally, I'm going to write in Sanders.

Re: (Score:1)

by Way, Way Smarter! ( 6878018 )

> Personally, I'm going to write in Sanders.

Are you sure it will be counted? For example, California doesn't count votes for write in candidates, unless the candidates have registered.

Re: (Score:2)

by garyisabusyguy ( 732330 )

Naw, he is just trying to convince other people to do something stupid and throw their votes away

Re: (Score:2)

by spun ( 1352 )

Next time you pull things out of your ass, keep them to yourself. Nobody wants to smell your shit, stop asking. Lying asshole.

Re: (Score:2)

by garyisabusyguy ( 732330 )

School yard bully tactic, blame others for what you do

trump and his gang do it all of the time

What it looks like (Score:1)

by AlanObject ( 3603453 )

It looks to me like they wanted to be assholes, but then it got to be too much trouble so they gave up.

There was never any justification for the action other than they just wanted to be assholes to some non-white group that couldn't fight back. Their supporters absolutely love them for that. But then it turns out the demographic had supporters that would fight back after all (it is about money after all) so they folded like a soggy dixie cup.

Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

by RightSaidFred99 ( 874576 )

This was indeed stupid but has nothing to do with your laughable knee-jerk "non white" comment. It has to do with that buffoon wanting to force schools to open thinking he can just force the economy to open and somehow salvage the one talking point he thinks he has - "the economy", before the election.

He thought he would force them to open for classes so they don't lose students - he thought wrong.

Re: (Score:3)

by UnknowingFool ( 672806 )

Why can’t it be both? A majority of grad students in the US is from China or India. Removing them or forcing the schools back to opening classes is a victory either way for the administration.

Re: (Score:2)

by avandesande ( 143899 )

That silly economy.... murder rates are setting new records in my area. How is yours?

Well it is good they saw reason... (Score:2)

by Paxtez ( 948813 )

But the real question is, did they field test this idea at all? What was the problem that this was supposed to fix? Did they workshop any other ideas?

Or was it just "foreigners bad"?

Each man is his own prisoner, in solitary confinement for life.